Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456
Results 101 to 112 of 112

Thread: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

  1. #101
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    3,432

    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Yeah Kitchen Imp is great. This version of your deck has even higher black count, with Shadows, Street Wraith and Reanimate, so this is a good home for Grief.

  2. #102
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,220

    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    I agree! However, I don't know if I can afford the card disadvantage, which is a very real cost with whatever these madness synergies result in for Legacy. Grief is great, and I can probably support a few copies, but again, I think Kitchen Imp is the better card here ironically.

    I think the appeal of this setup would be to have an explosive graveyard deck that doesn't auto-lose to hate, which is where Kitchen Imp, Death's Shadow, and Hollow One come into play. I think this is the direction I want to take the new MH2 cards, and for now Grief isn't in the picture (Thoughtseize is too important for Death's Shadow.) I'm not sure on Bloodghast yet, but it's another way to trigger Prized Amalgam. The Amalgams and Bloodghasts are linked together as a package, and the appeal of playing blue is for Daze. Daze, coincidentally enough, lets me replay lands for Bloodghast.

    Rough new list:

    4x Putrid Imp
    4x Kitchen Imp
    3x Bloodghast
    4x Death's Shadow
    4x Prized Amalgam
    4x Hollow One
    4x Vengevine
    4x Street Wraith

    4x Lotus Petal
    4x Careful Study
    3x Thoughtseize
    4x Daze
    1x Reanimate

    4x Polluted Delta
    4x Verdant Catacombs
    1x Marsh Flats
    3x Watery Grave
    1x Swamp

    Sideboard
    4x Bone Shards
    2x Surgical Extraction
    4x Force of Will
    2x Brazen Borrower
    2x Force of Negation
    1x Karakas


    White could be for Tireless Tribe, if another discard outlet is needed, and sideboarding Swords to Plowshares and having other white cards available could be pretty cool.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  3. #103
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,220

    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    With the focus on black so strong now, I am debating Dark Ritual over Lotus Petal. It can allow for some insane early plays that not only enable fast starts but can also allow for Thoughtseize to be part of t1 without sacrificing speed. I think I would need land #14, and it makes the deck weaker to Daze. However, I'm playing my own Daze's and it could mean I could play something like Buried Alive instead of Death's Shadow maindeck (Shadow could come out of the sideboard g2-3 when grave hate comes in.) It's just a thought, I need to playtest the above list first.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  4. #104
    Sushi or Meat and Eggs
    Cire's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2007
    Posts

    2,220

    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    This list recently placed https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...laone_th_place

    Creature (29)
    3 Anger
    4 Anje's Ravager
    4 Basking Rootwalla
    4 Blazing Rootwalla
    4 Hollow One
    2 Ox of Agonas
    4 Putrid Imp
    4 Vengevine
    Sorcery (8)
    4 Burning Inquiry
    4 Faithless Looting
    Instant (4)
    4 Once Upon a Time
    Artifact (4)
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    Land (15)
    2 Arid Mesa
    2 Badlands
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Mountain
    2 Taiga
    3 Wooded Foothills

    Doesn't seem like you really need Shadow - just go Gruul discard (with black just for the Imp looks like)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    You sir are a ninja of fine quality.

  5. #105
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,220

    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Yeah, I saw that list posted in the other thread. It's cool, but it's also weak to Daze and graveyard hate. My whole premise for Shadow was to have a big cheap 1-mana threat that can trigger Vengevines. The other premise was to have a deck that didn't auto-lose to Leyline of the Void. All of the threats are hard-castable save Vengevine (which can be worked around if I wanted to with a slightly tweaked mana-base.) Honestly, green makes sense for something to deal with Leyline of the Void and Grafdigger's Cage, maybe Nature's Claim or Assassin's Trophy. I like the deck, but I think there is an argument to be made for playing some disruption maindeck rather than balls-to-the-wall.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  6. #106
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,220

    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Missed this one on the first pass: Cabal Initiate. It's another discard outlet in black that's easier to cast than Lotleth Troll. It also gets a threshold bonus in the mid game that isn't dependent on being played first, like troll. It's an interesting idea, but at 2 mana it's a stretch. The unconditional discard is what gets it close.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  7. #107
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    3,432

    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Interesting. Lifelink and easier mana cost are some advantages over Lotleth Troll. But I think the deck is probably at the point where 0 Lotleth Troll 0 Initiate is better.

    The 8 1-mana ones are better than any of the 2-mana ones, and then Faithless Looting is probably better than the 2-mana ones even if you don't like the uncontrolled discard of LED. Looting makes Hollow One on 2 mana, the same speed that Troll does, but also digs deeper in cards.

    I liked Troll in the older builds as an alternate beatdown wincon (ignores grave hate) that was also a Zombie for Gravecrawler, but now with the higher madness count and cutting Gravecrawlers anyway Troll does a lot less than it used to.

  8. #108
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,220

    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Good points, and Shadow basically replaces Troll. I like that Initiate can be a 3/3 even late game, without setup. It *might* be good enough.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  9. #109
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,220

    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    I am debating a cut on the Lotus Petals so I can incorporate Once Upon a Time. It can be very good at finding a land on t0 or finding a Putrid Imp/other enabler. I'm fine doing the thing on t2, I'm basically accepting that because of Thoughtseize and Daze being in the deck to provide resilience. If I wanted a t1 deck I would be playing the new madness deck with LED's. However, I don't have LED's, I'm not going to get them, and I only play paper magic. I still think this might be the opportunity to take advantage of Death's Shadow. Shadow is worse as a Delver/tempo variant (see: UR Delver) but it could be better as a cheap, efficient beatstick in a deck that loves to put a bunch of dudes on the battlefield. I also like that I can sideboard into Force of Will fairly easily. As soon as my new cards show up I'll be sleaving and testing the crap out of this.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  10. #110
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,220

    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Initial testing went really smooth, although I'm not sure the power level is up to snuff. I cut Thoughtseize altogether along with the fast mana to squeeze in Hapless Researcher and another copy of Reanimate. Fourteen lands is plenty, there is a lot of velocity, but something like Dark Ritual in some number would be pretty good. Shadow has been live by turn 3 in almost every game, fetchland/shocks/Wraiths do a fine job of getting to 9 life or so.

    Kitchen imp is fantastic, but in my particular list sequencing is super important, especially for Vengevine and Bloodghast triggers.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  11. #111
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    3,432

    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Would Grief be good here to allow for explosive turn 1s, especially if you run Reanimates?

    What matchups are bad? Grief could help disrupt combo and other fast decks, but you can board it out in matchups where the card disadvantage hurts the same way people board out Forces.

  12. #112
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,220

    Re: SHiV (Shadow-Hollow-Vine)

    Yes, possibly -bloodghast, -daze, +grief, +dark ritual. Currently just goldfishing, making sure it does its thing. Edit: once Daze goes then blue altogether goes, because red is better at doing stuff, especially out of the sideboard.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)