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Thread: Legacy Spirits

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  1. #1
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    Legacy Spirits

    Can Legacy Spirits be viable today ?

    Spirit decks already have some excellent building blocks and just recently got another very good card in Skyclave Apparition.
    SA is great by itself already but being a Spirit it can also get all the +1/+1 boosts and Flash & Hexproof abilities on top in a Spirit deck.

    Crucial to playing Spirits imho is Spirit of the Labyrinth. This is the card that sets Spirit tribal apart from other tribals, combined with mass Hexproof and mass Flash.
    Since card draw is such an integral part of Legacy, found in nearly every deck, she can outright wreck a number of decks while slowing others down to a crawl.
    Legacy staples which get impacted by SotL include among others, Ponder, Baleful Strix, Arcum's Astrolabe etc.

    With SotL out we can still get around her with Brainstorm ( the opponent as well obviously ) and Mikokoro, center of the Sea. Using Mikokoro at the end of opponent's turn gives you a card while negating the opponent one.

    With SotL slowing down card draw ( smaller hand sizes ) and with all your Spirits potentially having flash, I think this deck may no longer have a need for Aether Vial.
    With Aether Vial out, there are no artifacts left in the deck.
    This means Null Rod can be added to our sideboard.

    Another useful addition may be Subterranean Tremors.
    It does require a red splash but the mana base is large enough to carry that imo and it does cover some weaknesses.
    Spirits feels to me like it's a finesse deck and it may get overwhelmed by stronger creatures initially.
    Being able to have a one sided boardwipe and potentially take out all artifacts at the same time combined with the SotL's slow recovery ability may mean your opponent wil be unable to recover from this setback.

    Interested to hear your thoughts on this.

    My current version :
    https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/1813366-spirits

  2. #2
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    Re: Legacy Spirits

    Quote Originally Posted by Borg View Post
    Spirit decks already have some excellent building blocks and just recently got another very good card in Skyclave Apparition.
    SA is great by itself already but being a Spirit it can also get all the +1/+1 boosts and Flash & Hexproof abilities on top in a Spirit deck.
    SA is a great reason to play Spirits and should possibly be a 4-of, as it's one of the few spirit effects that can proactively respond to the board state (instead of just countering spells, countering removal via hexproof, or preventing draws). It can shut down nonsense when you're behind, which is something the other effects lack. Just a great card on its own, and even better next to Spirit lords and hexproof effects.

    Crucial to playing Spirits imho is Spirit of the Labyrinth. This is the card that sets Spirit tribal apart from other tribals, combined with mass Hexproof and mass Flash.
    Spirit of the Labyrinth was never that strong in D&T. It's still a good spirit, but I would not force so many copies in the main when you could be running versatile flyers like Selfless Spirit (much better body when you don't need either effect). Selfless Spirit protecting Captain, Queller and SA from removal is pretty big. Also SotL is a nonbo with the best card in your deck, Brainstorm.

    With SotL out we can still get around her with Brainstorm ( the opponent as well obviously )
    How? Even on the opponent's EOT you will only draw 1 card and then put back 2 cards from hand.

    4 Brainstorm + 3 SotL seems bad, and if you have to pick one there's no question which is the better card...

    Edit: I stand corrected. Other Legacy spirit decks are running SotL over Brainstorm. But never both.
    https://mtgdecks.net/Legacy/spirits

    Another useful addition may be Subterranean Tremors.
    It does require a red splash but the mana base is large enough to carry that imo and it does cover some weaknesses.
    Does a 1-3cc curve tribal aggro deck want to run an XR sweeper? The X=4 mode seems unlikely to kick in, especially the X=8 mode. If you just want to wipe up ground weenies, you could splash something like SB Firespout or Rough // Tumble. Firespout is much better until you hit 5 mana. Are you maindecking this and splashing another color only for what it can do at 5+ mana?


    Some other spirits:


    Edit: Here's a lower-to-the-ground version


    //Spirits: 28
    4 Mausoleum Wanderer
    3 Spectral Sailor
    4 Supreme Phantom
    4 Rattlechains
    3 Selfless Spirit
    4 Drogskol Captain
    4 Skyclave Apparition
    2 Spell Queller

    //Spells: 12
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    //Lands: 20
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Prismatic Vista
    3 Tundra
    2 Snow-Covered Island
    2 Snow-Covered Plains
    1 Moorland Haunt

    //Sideboard: 15
    3 Remorseful Cleric
    1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
    1 Spell Queller
    1 Kataki, War's Wage
    1 Null Rod
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Spell Pierce
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Deafening Silence


    Might still be better with Aether Vial
    Last edited by FTW; 12-03-2020 at 06:41 PM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Legacy Spirits

    @FTW , always nice to get some response to a thread.

    You're correct of course on Brainstorm. Not a good fit.

    I know Subterranean Tremors is a stretch but I didn't put it in to use at 5+CC.
    It's also useful at CC2+. The ability to wipe out all artifacts at 5 mana is just an added possibility that makes me prefer it over Firespout. The 8+ ability obviously was never a consideration.

    I agree Skyclave Apparition may be a 4-of in a Spirit deck although the opponent may not always have a worthy target out.
    So, I'm going to use 3MD + 1SB for now.

    Spectral Sailor deserves a spot, though not more than 1 I think, since he only reaches his full potential when you reach 5 mana ( flash + immediate draw )

    Unsettled Mariner was cut because his ability becomes mostly useless when Hexproof kicks in and because he doesn't have evasion.

    Phantasmal Image was cut because he doesn't gain Flash and because I'd rather put in another copy of the card he would be supposed to copy.
    I understand he gives you flexability and can occasionally copy an opposing beater but overall I feel like this deck doesn't really need him.

    Shacklegeist is a nice addition. 1MD + 1SB

    Why only 2 Spell Quellers in your version ?
    Personally I think this is a 4-of, especially since the deck operates off Flash.
    You can sit on your mana and keep all options open all the time, including countering + putting a Spirit in play at the same time.

    Overall, thanks for the suggestions.
    Deck currently looking like this.
    https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/1813366-spirits

  4. #4
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    Re: Legacy Spirits

    Quote Originally Posted by Borg View Post
    I know Subterranean Tremors is a stretch but I didn't put it in to use at 5+CC.
    It's also useful at CC2+. The ability to wipe out all artifacts at 5 mana is just an added possibility that makes me prefer it over Firespout. The 8+ ability obviously was never a consideration.
    If it's a pet card of yours it's worth testing. Below 5cc it's Earthquake, which has never been mana-efficient enough to be playable in most formats, rarely even making it into Standard (when it was in print). At the 2-4cc range, something like Rough // Tumble usually gets the job done. I saw that in some Spirit SBs. Paying an extra mana to deal the same amount of damage is a big tempo suck, and you usually want this effect against fast decks with mana denial.

    Spectral Sailor deserves a spot, though not more than 1 I think, since he only reaches his full potential when you reach 5 mana ( flash + immediate draw )
    I ran more just for curve reasons. More 1-mana plays to optimize mana utility, especially with Flash. It's better than any other 1cc Spirit (Topplegeist is probably the next best). A 1-mana flash body does all sorts of things like:
    -surprise pump Mausoleum Wanderer to counter a spell or win combat
    -chump block a 20/20 or other nonsense
    -make a cheap 2/2 with any lord effect to trade with Delver or beatdown

    The body is not spectacular, but it's amazing for tempo (use 1 mana you otherwise wouldn't use at EOT). It can't be ignored either, because if they just let you keep it then you eventually start drawing free cards. I think it's worth considering IF you want more 1ccs for curve reasons, because it outclasses the other options, but not if you're playing towards a slower reactive deck.

    Why only 2 Spell Quellers in your version ?
    Personally I think this is a 4-of, especially since the deck operates off Flash.
    You can sit on your mana and keep all options open all the time, including countering + putting a Spirit in play at the same time.
    Curve reasons. I was pushing a faster tempo build with more 1 drops, more flyers, and fewer lands. There was only so much room at the 3cc spot. Captain is an obvious 4-of. With 4 SA that doesn't leave much room, but going to 3 SA frees up space.

    I'm also skeptical of Spell Queller's value in Legacy. No question it's amazing in slower formats. But Legacy has a lot of big stuff happening in the first 3 turns, and T3 OTD is pretty slow to be able to interact with the stack, while there are a lot of ways to kill it at 1-2 mana. If it just trades with a Bolt/StP/Push/Decay/Daze/REB you're way behind on tempo. You had to pass with mana open, you spent more mana than them, and they immediately get their spell back on the stack.

    Queller looks best in slow grindy matches like Snowko where you can afford to just play draw-go. It also gets through Veil of Summer/Allosaurus Shepherd and counters Abrupt Decay on Captain (with Captain then protecting Queller). But I wouldn't want to see 2 copies in my hand vs any fast deck. Maybe 3-3 split with SA, and 1 of each in the SB?

    I might be wrong about this. It just seems too slow and mana-hungry sometimes, especially without Vial or when you don't have mass-Flash.

    Anyway, good luck with the deck! Looking forward to seeing results.

  5. #5

    Re: Legacy Spirits

    If you stare long enough at Permeating Mass, you start wondering if it has a home in a deck where (a) everything else flies, (b) you have spirit lords and your opponent doesn't, and (c) your current one-drops are bad (yes, they're bad; good would be DRS or Goblin Lackey or Mother of Runes).

    And then you snap out of it.

    Still, I feel like you have little action at 1cc when you play this tribe and don't play Vial.

  6. #6
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    Re: Legacy Spirits

    It would be so much better if the lords gave First Strike. Then opponent basically can't attack into your Mass or else you neuter his board into vanilla 1/3s. Without some way to help your mass survive or force combat though, it seems bad.

    I love Geist of Saint Traf but I think he only has a home in SpiritBlade (see above link for decks with Spirits and Stoneblade package). A ground 2/2 is really bad without equipment in a deck already full of flyers.

    I think 4 Remorseful Cleric is overkill. The decks you want it against will often go off before you hit 2 mana. BR Reanimator, Hogaak, Dredge and others can play under 2cc hate just fine. So you want some graveyard interaction slots to be faster (Surgical, Faerie Macabre, Crypt, Cage) and only some to be 2cc.

    The fact that we're even considering Spectral Sailor to have something to do with 1 mana means this deck probably does need Vial. If you want to play SotL main you could just swap Brainstorm for Vial. Vial also makes it easier to go down to 20 lands and still support Spell Queller.



    //Spirits: 28
    4 Mausoleum Wanderer
    1 Spectral Sailor
    4 Supreme Phantom
    4 Rattlechains
    3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
    2 Selfless Spirit
    4 Drogskol Captain
    3 Skyclave Apparition
    3 Spell Queller

    //Spells: 12
    4 Force of Will
    4 Aether Vial
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    //Lands: 20
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Prismatic Vista
    1 Scalding Tarn
    1 Arid Mesa
    3 Tundra
    2 Snow-Covered Island
    2 Snow-Covered Plains
    1 Moorland Haunt

    //Rough SB: 15
    2 Remorseful Cleric
    2 Shacklegeist
    1 Skyclave Apparition
    1 Spell Queller
    1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
    1 Kataki, War's Wage
    1 Brazen Borrower
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Flusterstorm
    2 Deafening Silence
    2 Surgical Extraction


    Null Rod is obviously a nonbo with Vial.

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