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Thread: MultiColor Creatures - MCC

  1. #61
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    Re: MultiColor Creatures - MCC

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    When I tested other General builds against UR Delver, a common play pattern was casting General and making 4/4s but getting raced by Murktide/DRC+Bolts. The deck was forced to race or remove everything, since it lacked the ways to stabilize against reach that Bant has. So if you cut Uro and green, the deck needs something else to cover that role.
    That's where Cavern Harpy comes in.
    Can block Murktide forever ( and generate 4/4s in the process ) and is basically unboltable.

  2. #62
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    Re: MultiColor Creatures - MCC

    Quote Originally Posted by Borg View Post
    That's where Cavern Harpy comes in.
    Can block Murktide forever ( and generate 4/4s in the process ) and is basically unboltable.
    Costs 4 mana per turn to chump Murktide/Marit Lage, losing to Bolt on the other creature. Both Delver and Depths are fast enough to win before that engine comes online.

    Cavern Harpy is a great card on turn 8 with a clogged board. The problem is it's a dead card on an empty board and really needs General out to create value. It's the type of card that's great goldfishing and bad in real resource-light games.

    Dorothea does the opposite. It's unimpressive in a stalled lategame, but it comes down turn 2 and holds off fast flyers without requiring any other cards out. Uro would be ideal, but if you don't want to worry about GG then you need another plan.

  3. #63
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    Re: MultiColor Creatures - MCC

    Finally took the old General out for a spin again, in the Jeskai shell, for a little 3-0 with friends. MUs: DnT, Dark Bant, and some janky combo brew. (A while ago I did some testing vs. Doomsday that also went really well.) Still small sample size but the deck felt really solid. Current list:

    15 threats
    4 General Ferris Buehler
    3 Meddling Mage
    2 Dorothea
    1 Lavinia
    1 Wandering Mind

    4
    2 T3feri
    1 The Royal Scions
    1 Dack Fayden --> meta call, could be Sevinne's Reclamation

    25 spells
    4 BS
    4 Ponder
    4 Force
    4 Expressive Iteration
    3 Swords
    3 PEnding
    2 Rip Apart
    1 FoN

    20 lands
    1 Karakas
    1 Mystic Sanctuary
    4 Strand
    4 Tarn
    1 Mesa
    2 Tundra
    2 Volcanic
    1 Plateau
    2 Island
    1 Plains
    1 Mountain

    SB:
    1 Jegantha
    1 Blood Moon
    1 Swords to Plowshares
    3 red blast
    1 Meddling Mage
    2 Izzet Staticaster
    1 Meltdown
    1 Wear//Tear
    1 Rest in Peace
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Surgical

    multicolor count: 21+5

    As the recent success of the Days Undoing deck confirms, the Jeskai spells shell is just an absolute house rn, and the General does feel like a legitimate wincon here. The deck plays a midrange tap-out game (closer to old Grixis) and is very mana hungry. I never really ran out of things to do, never even got to put Jegantha in hand in those games I boarded out all Forces (which I'm not sure was correct vs. DnT and Control but I did it for science). Once a General hits the board it almost feels like you can't lose: I was able to go straight over both DnT and 4C Cntrl, playing through several Jace activations one game and Karakas in two other games (still making Golems with with 5+ lands out. (Dack helped a lot too, stealing a Jitte and a Strix respectively)

    Quick notes on some cards: No need to talk about Swords, PEnding, Ex.It: those cards are OP. I take Rip Apart to be playable with so many Sagas around (some decks play Dress Down in this slot). Dorothea was fine in the Strix role, the double cast ability came in super handy, and it's a nice card to loot away with Dack. The Royal Scions were actually good, just an absolute must-kill before ult. I never got to cast Wandering Mind, that's probably the sketchiest inclusion here (I think it's a strong card but you might need flicker effects to make it Legacy playable).

    It's like we already mentioned in this thread: GFR works like a pseudo-Mentor with hexproof. not shabby at all.

  4. #64
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    Re: MultiColor Creatures - MCC

    Looks strong. That shell of UW spells + Exit seems strong in general, then General is free value.

    Why Jegantha, the Wellspring? You can't reveal it unless you board out Force. Then it's still an 8-mana play. What matches is it for?

    How good was Dack Fayden? Seems odd here. Wandering Mind too.

  5. #65
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    Re: MultiColor Creatures - MCC

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post

    Why Jegantha, the Wellspring? You can't reveal it unless you board out Force. Then it's still an 8-mana play. What matches is it for?

    ... Dack Fayden? Wandering Mind
    As I said, I never drew Wandering Mind and Dack happened to work out well for me in these games. I think the rise of Saga as a format staple actually makes Dack maindeckable these days, even outside of Stryfo pile, and there are a few (minor) looting synergies too (binning redundant Legends, Dorothea in particular, perhaps just binning Jegantha for value).

    And I'm not sure about Jegantha yet tbh, just that a guaranteed General activation in grindy/fair MUs seems ok? My experience playing control in Legacy is limited, so honest question: Do you never board out all Forces? The major deck I was thinking of was Delver (yet to test against it), but even against control here I didn't miss Force effects. Turning off opp's countermagic with Lavinia, T3feri and, optionally, Meddling Mage really helps resolve my important spells and there aren't many cards I can think off in those MUs that I'd be worried about with access to the white removal suite.

  6. #66
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    Re: MultiColor Creatures - MCC

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobitzki View Post
    And I'm not sure about Jegantha yet tbh, just that a guaranteed General activation in grindy/fair MUs seems ok? My experience playing control in Legacy is limited, so honest question: Do you never board out all Forces? The major deck I was thinking of was Delver (yet to test against it), but even against control here I didn't miss Force effects. Turning off opp's countermagic with Lavinia, T3feri and, optionally, Meddling Mage really helps resolve my important spells and there aren't many cards I can think off in those MUs that I'd be worried about with access to the white removal suite.
    When players board out 5 Forces, it's usually vs fair aggro.

    It's reasonable to board out all Forces vs UR Delver (although you could use some copies to defend Lavinia/General/Teferi when tapping out). But do you want an 8-mana play vs Delver? Usually not.

    That's why I asked what matchups it's for. I can't think of many matches where you both want to board out all Forces and want a slow 8-mana play. Maybe some 4c deck if you aren't worried about their sideboard cards resolving?

  7. #67

    Re: MultiColor Creatures - MCC

    I always prefer to use old cards than new cards.
    Said that, what about to include Urza's Filter ?

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    Re: MultiColor Creatures - MCC


  9. #69
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    Re: MultiColor Creatures - MCC

    Interesting. The General could become a thing to build around in future. I think you need more multicoloured spells and maybe some way to tutor a general.


  10. #70
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    Re: MultiColor Creatures - MCC

    Quote Originally Posted by z0anthr0pe View Post
    Interesting. The General could become a thing to build around in future. I think you need more multicoloured spells and maybe some way to tutor a general.
    Phil's idea with that list was to build like UWR Mentor, a proven good shell. Instead of tutoring for General, there's Mentor too. 8 threats that go big when you untap with them and cast spells. Cantrips help find General and multicolored spells. The video shows the idea sort of works.

    I think the biggest problem is the curve. On paper the curve looks balanced between 1-3. In practice, the 2s don't do anything on turn 2. Expressive Iteration is a turn 3 card, not turn 2. Manamorphose wants to stay in hand until you already have General/Mentor. So the deck really just has 1s and 3s, with no board presence until 3 mana. That means the deck only has 1-mana plays until it hits 3 lands. The curve's clogged at 3. Against Daze and Wasteland, the problem is worse, it may need 4+ lands to resolve anything relevant. You see that problem come up repeatedly in the video.

    The deck needs a relevant proactive 2-mana play. It should be multi-colored. It should curve well into turn 3 General. It should also help improve matchups where General is not good enough. In other words, it needs to be good on turn 2 before General but also good to cast after General is out. Meddling Mage fits the criteria.

    Cycling Timeless Dragon is another proactive 2 mana play that helps set up General and increases wincons.

    With MD Mage and a few other changes:


    //Spells: 26
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Prismatic Ending
    4 Expressive Iteration
    2 Manamorphose
    2 Rip Apart

    //Creatures: 12
    4 Meddling Mage
    4 General Ferrous Rokiric
    2 Monastery Mentor
    2 Timeless Dragon

    //Planeswalker: 2
    2 Teferi, Time Raveler

    //Lands: 20
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Prismatic Vista
    1 Tundra
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Plateau
    3 Island
    2 Plains
    1 Mountain
    1 Cavern of Souls

    //Sideboard: 15
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Force of Negation
    1 Detention Sphere
    1 Meltdown
    1 Null Rod
    1 Dress Down
    1 Alpine Moon
    1 Blood Moon
    1 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
    2 Izzet Staticaster
    2 Surgical Extraction


    Muticolor Count: 18 + 4

  11. #71
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    Re: MultiColor Creatures - MCC

    This deck got a powerful addition with the upcoming release of
    https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/3/jens...on-druid-exile
    which is basically a 2cc version of the General.

    Potentially a T1 drop with Petal.
    Opponent needs removal immediately or he will face a permanent 4/4 flyer with vigilance on T2.

  12. #72

    Re: MultiColor Creatures - MCC

    Quote Originally Posted by Borg View Post
    This deck got a powerful addition with the upcoming release of
    https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/3/jens...on-druid-exile
    which is basically a 2cc version of the General.

    Potentially a T1 drop with Petal.
    Opponent needs removal immediately or he will face a permanent 4/4 flyer with vigilance on T2.
    I'm fairly certain one of us can't read Jenson properly:

    If that spell was all colors, create a 4/4 white Angel creature token with flying and vigilance.

  13. #73
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    Re: MultiColor Creatures - MCC

    What does "all colors" mean then ?

    Does it mean the spell should cost WUBRG ?
    Or is a spell costing WU like Meddling Mage also considered "all colors" since there is no generic mana in its cost ?

    I've got a rising suspicion it will be the first though.
    Blame my misinterpreting on my being non native English speaker.

  14. #74

    Re: MultiColor Creatures - MCC

    Quote Originally Posted by Borg View Post
    Does it mean the spell should cost WUBRG ?
    Usually, unless shenanigans (Transguild Courier, multiple Painter's Servant etc.)
    To work the other way, it would probably need to say something like "if it has no generic mana in its mana cost".

  15. #75

    Re: MultiColor Creatures - MCC

    Quote Originally Posted by Borg View Post
    What does "all colors" mean then ?

    Does it mean the spell should cost WUBRG ?
    Or is a spell costing WU like Meddling Mage also considered "all colors" since there is no generic mana in its cost ?

    I've got a rising suspicion it will be the first though.
    Blame my misinterpreting on my being non native English speaker.
    It literally means it has to be ALL of the colors, so it has to have WUBRG in its mana cost or have an ability that makes it all colors.

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