Continuing to test the deck. Going 40%.
I tested prismatic ending. It was good since you often tap Serra’s sanctum for an extra white mana. Although compared to 3feri it leaves your blue count very low.
Strix is a great card and good for your blue/creature count. It’s is really awkward for mana sequencing however since it neither turns on Serra nor can be cast with it.
The meta seems very durdle right now. I tried court of grace over history of benalia and was impressed. Curve wise it is pretty easy to have 4 mana on t3 but impossible to have 3 mana on t2.
Playing trial of ambition, I missed the lifegain and pw removal of oath.
I did some further testing in leagues, and I am winning a bit closer to 50% now.
Hidden stockpile was fun in theory with michiko but it was too bad by itself in practice.
Monk class was actually not terrible as flexible removal. The more powerful alternatives (ending and 3feri) are not enchantments and hurt your blue count/clog your curve.
Michiko gives the deck a lot of aggression but I need more 1 drop enchantments that can attack on t2. Maybe I should revisit myth realized.
Trial of ambition plus flicker is disgusting vs the top decks (d&t/GW/delver) and and is the reason this deck is esper instead of bant.
This is where I am at now:
4 On Thin Ice
4 Sarcomancy
4 Legion’s Landing
3 Paladin Class
3 Myth Realized
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Michiko’s Reign of Truth
3 Trial of Ambition
3 Monk Class
3 History of Benalia
3 Aminatou, the Fateshifter
4 Estrid’s Invocation
4 Force of Will
2 Force of Negation
4 Serra’s Sanctum
2 Snow Island
1 Snow Swamp
2 Snow Plains
2 Tundra
1 Scrubland
2 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
4 Marsh Flats
2 Prismatic Vista
4 Polluted Delta
4 Enlightened Tutor
1 Yorion, the Sky Nomad
1 Graffdigger’s cage
1 Rest In Peace
1 Engineered Plague
1 Humility
1 Damping Sphere
1 Energy Flux
1 Pithing Needle
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
I ran a bunch of leagues and talked to a few yorion esper vial players for advice. I got a few breakthroughs to improve the fail rate of the deck.
- If you only have white enchantments, you need to fetch white to cast those enchantments but then Serra’s only makes more white. This screws up your land sequencing. 2 paladin class and 1 on thin ice to 3 warlock class helps immensely in making Serra’s plus a fetch hands more keepable.
- The deck is super cold to lage without strix, but strix and sanctum do not play nicely. Added a karakas, the blue channel land, and cut a on thin ice for swift reconfiguration for more outs.
- Ending is really good in a deck with spare white mana.
- One trial changed to oath of Kaya as an etutor target post-board against karn/JTMS.
Thoughts?
4 Legion’s Landing
4 Sarcomancy
2 On Thin Ice
1 Swift Reconfiguration
2 Paladin Class
3 Warlock Class
3 Michikoro’s Reign of Truth
2 Trial of Ambition
3 Omen of the sea
2 History of Benalia
1 Oath of Kaya
4 Estrid’s Invocation
3 Aminatou, the Fateshifter
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Prismatic Ending
4 Force of Will
2 Force of Negation
4 Serra’s Sanctum
1 Karakas
1 Otawara, Soaring City
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
2 Sea
4 Delta
4 Strand
4 Flats
1 Vista
2 Snow Swamp
1 Snow Island
1 Snow Plains
Still tuning the list. Found out a few things: lost to mana denial a bunch, I don’t think the utility lands were worth it.
Strix is definitely a good card if I can make it castable. Not auto losing to lage is the most important. Extra bodies for michiko and removal while supporting my blue count too. Swift was underwhelming since so many creatures do more than just attack right now. On thin ice doesn’t flicker super well and can’t really curve into strix.
You can’t just have the 1 drops as flicker targets; a few more 2 and 3 cmc targets are needed to turbo charge your engines.
Retooled list to support both strix and Serra’s sanctum is below. It is a lot worse at the t2 Serra’s sanctum for WW nuts, but should be more stable.
4 Legion’s Landing
4 Sarcomancy
3 Paladin Class
3 Warlock Class
2 Michikoro’s Reign of Truth
4 Trial of Ambition
4 Baleful Strix
2 History of Benalia
4 Estrid’s Invocation
3 Aminatou, the Fateshifter
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Prismatic Ending
4 Force of Will
2 Force of Negation
4 Serra’s Sanctum
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
2 Sea
4 Delta
4 Strand
4 Flats
2 Vista
3 Snow Swamp
3 Snow Island
1 Snow Plains
Humility has been good as etutor target and I am excited to try Out of Time as a boardwipe. The sideboard discard was unimpressive, and could be more targets or extra force of negations.
I tried a bunch of different versions trying to make the deck faster/more token heavy. That did ok vs fair blue but fair non-blue and combo ignored it. The card quality also diminishes quite a bit once you get past sarcomancy/legions/michiko. I think the strength of the deck is the recursive hard removal so maybe I should just focus on that. Additionally, many of the effects in the deck get stronger the longer the game goes, so perhaps slowing down helps my aggro plan.
4 Sarcomancy
4 Legion’s Landing
3 Paladin Class
3 Warlock Class
3 Michiko’s Reign of Truth
4 Trial of Ambition
1 Oath of Kaya
4 Estrid’s Invocation
3 Aminatou, the Fateshifter
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Prismatic Ending
4 Baleful Strix
4 Force of Will
3 Force of Negation
4 Vista
4 Delta
3 Flats
3 Strand
4 Serra’s
1 Tundra
3 Sea
1 Scrub
1 Plains
2 Island
2 Swamp
Inventive Iteration saw play in the esper vial list that top8’d the showcase.
Inventive Iteration
{3}{U}
Enchantment — Saga
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter.)
I — Return up to one target creature or planeswalker to its owner’s hand.
II — Return an artifact card from your graveyard to your hand. If you can’t, draw a card.
III — Exile this Saga, then return it to the battlefield transformed under your control.
Living Breakthrough
(Colour Indicator: Blue) Enchantment Creature — Moonfolk
Flying
Whenever you cast a spell, your opponents can’t cast spells with the same mana value as that spell until your next turn.
It’s essentially a bad 3feri as an enchantment, although it has really good synergy with strix, and the backside is a finisher against combo. Perhaps I should consider it as a finisher over the expensive token makers or removal enchantments? It can stabilize, answer Jace/karn/constructs, and helps my blue count.
Last edited by Reeplcheep; 03-10-2022 at 03:34 PM.
The token deck is great against fair blue but other decks did the vomit tokens onto the board thing better (8cast, 8mulch).
Rather than focusing on the token maker + Estrid’s interaction, you could focus on removal enchantments + estrids. Hitsegu consumes all is seeing play as a 4 of and is the enchantment boardwipes a control build wanted. I initially dismissed it since it was off colour and has dissynergy with tokens and 1 drop enchantments. But a hard grixis control build could avoide those issues.
Draft:
4 Omen of the Sea
4 Trial of Ambition
4 Estrid’s Invocation
4 Hitsegu Consumes All
2 Court of Ambition
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Fatal Push
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Snuff Out
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Baleful Strix
4 Force of Will
3 Force of Negation
2 Vista
4 polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Badlands
1 Mountain
5 Island
5 Swamp
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Yorion, the sky serpent
2 Blood Moon
2 Meltdown
I have a high amount of discard. The reasoning was A. Yorion decks are inherently better against fair decks than combo B. If I am building around a boardwipes, I’d rather make sure the boardwipe resolves than just cast another removal spell.
Recurring removal/boardwipes gives this deck a niche over UWx decks. it is close enough to the current grixis builds that it can’t be too bad. The question is if the estrid/Yorion thing is better than narset/days undoing, but it isn’t unreasonable to suppose that.
Some conclusions from a lot of looking through sample hands and theory crafting:
- Bolt is the best 1 drop removal since the deck is so cold to planeswalkers.
- More inquisition over Thoughtseize to enable snuff out.
- Magus over blood moon because of 8mulch/12post.
- Energy Flux over Meltdown since hitsegu already answers the cheap stuff.
- I felt a bit light on cantrips and enchantments, thinking of adding 2 consider & 2 Disinformation campaign.
The list I played at FNM a couple of days ago:
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Prismatic Ending
2 Force of Negation
1 Sevinne's Reclamation
4 Omen of the Sea
2 Omen of the Forge
4 Spreading Seas
4 Estrid's Invocation
1 Detention Sphere
1 Counterbalance
1 Humility
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Prismatic Vista
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
SB
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Court of Grace
1 Rest in Peace
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Blood Moon
1 Energy Flux
1 Deafening Silence
3 Pyroblast
1 Kaheera
1-1-1 vs UR Delver
2-1 vs Chalice Post
2-1 vs Ninjas
Not sure about the esper builds with the tokens, too alien of a strategy to me and can't figure it out just from looking at it how to offer any suggestions
Omen of the Forge is not that bad and may be okay for your Grixis build also but part of what makes it good is Humility and you can't really play that with Yorion. Its possible that with Trial of Ambition you don't need it. I don't think Hidetsugu has that much synergy with Estrids but Estrids + Trial is a very good combo and maybe Hidetsugu is just a good enough card by itself. Could be interested to test a grixis build.
I recommend considering spreading seas as a extra thing you can copy to draw, kills Urzas Saga, doesn't die to Hidetsugu, more Yorion target, etc
Edit: Im also quite surprised you didn't test Tribute to Horobi
Enchantment - Saga 1B
[I] & [II] each opponent creates a 1/1 rat rogue
[III] exile and flip
back side: Echo of Death's Wail
Enchantment Creature - Spirit 3/3
Flying, Haste
When ~ enters the battlefield gain control of all rat tokens
When ~ attacks you may sacrifice another creature if you do draw a card
At 2 mana it curves well into estrid:
Turn 2 play this make 1 rat
Turn 3 tick up to II, make 2nd rat, play estrid to copy it, make 3rd rat
turn 4 flicker your estrid make 4th rat, mainphase tick up estrid first make 5th rat, then original saga flips, gain control of 5 rats, attack with 3/3 flying haste draw a card
Seems good both as an aggro card for a deck that also has Sarcomancy, or even as a standalone finisher for a more controlling list like how I wanted History of Benalia to work in my original build (sadly a nonbo with the hidetsugu saga though). The fact its a mana cheaper and as a card by itself it potentially draws 2 cards is pretty nice
Last edited by kombatkiwi; 04-03-2022 at 09:20 AM.
Omen of the forge is nice if I am in red but Oath of Kaya or Life of Tostiro Umezawa do similar things without requiring a splash.
You didn’t find that seas was too awkward vs daze? Did your estrids copying it ever die to wasteland? I could consider it replacing strix, but strix seems so much better vs delver and jeskai.
Tribute seemed quite strong, but the non-bo with trial seemed too strong to include. I thought the estrids plus trial interaction was the reason to play the deck. Also I was worried that it made the deck too weak to prismatic ending which otherwise the deck handles always at card advantage.
Out of Time is a boardwipe that gets better with our own tokens and has a very high synergy with aminatou. It seems like a good option to avoid splashing for hitsegu; Have you tried it?
Against daze/wasteland deck you just spreading seas your own basic islands. Strix is probably better overall, assuming you can cast it and haven't had any issues lacking Estrid targetsOriginally Posted by Reeplcheep
The nonbo with trial and horobi is only a short window until you flip it and steal all the rats (which can be an issue due to powerful threats like murktide, but doesn't seem too bad)
Haven't tried out of time
Strix is definitely not free. I had to cut on thin ice for it since you can’t lead on basic plains. But with the above lists it isn’t too bad.
The non bo is probably not as important as how weak it is to removal. Your opponent Ending or bouncing it after chapter 2 seems very annoying to deal with.
Hmmm yeah that's fair, for a more controlling build I guess the best wincon is some kind of court rather than the tokens plan
The idea of the tokens builds are that your 1 drops are 1.5 for 1s against removal. If they ending the token, you can punish them with your engines (estrid and aminatou) making another one; if they ending the enchantment you punish them with pump effects (paladin class/reign of truth/nettlecyst/life of umezawa) so they can’t ignore your token. that is something unique to the deck which is more interesting imo than the normal UWx plan of 1 mana removal + generic CA engine.
Perhaps I should give the “ jitte” saga another try. If you are copying it with estrids it is basically a -2/-2, and it pumps the tokens to 3/4 power so the opponent needs to answer them. Higher floor but lower ceiling than the “nettlecyst” saga. If you think trial + estrids is the strongest part of the deck having 7 copies of each is a lot of consistency. The deck becomes more black heavy, less white, so Serra’s sanctum gets a bit worse.
What about this:
2 Warlock Class
4 Sarcomancy
3 Legion’s Landing
3 Paladin Class
4 Prismatic Ending
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Baleful Strix
4 Trial of Ambition
3 Life of Yoshiro Umezawa
2 Out of Time
3 Aminatou, the Fateshifter
4 Estrid’s Invocation
4 Force of Will
3 Force of Negation
3 Serra’s Sanctum
3 Snow Island
3 Snow Swamp
2 Snow Plains
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
2 Underground Sea
3 Flooded Strand
3 Marsh Flats
4 Prismatic Vista
4 Polluted Delta
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Yorion, the Sky Nomad
1 Graffdigger’s cage
2 Rest In Peace
1 Deafening Silence
1 Humility
1 Tsabo’s Web
1 Energy Flux
1 Pithing Needle
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Going about 40% with the below. Strix had a ton of conflict with sanctum and estrids so I cut it and the list feels a bunch smoother. having something powerful to copy with a estrids in combo matchups is great.I had to add plow and karakas to not fold to marit lage though. The “jitte” saga is working out as intended; never amazing but works well with all the parts of the deck.
4 Sarcomancy
3 Legion’s Landing
3 Paladin Class
3 Prismatic Ending
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Omen of the Sea
4 Trial of Ambition
3 Life of Yoshiro Umezawa
3 History of Benalia
3 Aminatou, the Fateshifter
4 Estrid’s Invocation
4 Force of Will
3 Force of Negation
3 Serra’s Sanctum
1 Karakas
3 Snow Island
3 Snow Swamp
1 Snow Plains
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Underground Sea
3 Flooded Strand
3 Marsh Flats
4 Prismatic Vista
4 Polluted Delta
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Yorion, the Sky Nomad
1 Out of Time
1 Rest In Peace
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Deafening Silence
1 Humility
1 Tsabo’s Web
1 Energy Flux
1 Pithing Needle
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Agree with your assessment. The antisynergy between Sanctum and UB stuff is enough of a problem that you probably need to decide between being a Sanctum deck and being a general Esper ETB value deck.
It probably helps to streamline the mana. Do you want to be UWb or UBw? (or WBu??). Equally-balanced UBW seems unstable for 80 cards. The Sanctum plan tilts towards UWb. Maybe that means leaning more into the white answers (4 Plow, 4 Ending) and cutting back on turn 1 black stuff. How's Curse of Silence?
The core of the deck imo is removal enchantment into blink engine. Which is why I have 7 of both. It is a card advantage engine that is tempo positive instead of negative; it is distinct from legacies normal efficient interaction into durdle control shell.
Strix was too hard due to the UB and the “nettlecyst” saga was too all in/low floor. I have liked Umezawa due to a decently high floor and synergizing with the whole deck. The deck wants to be WBu since the best interaction is white and the best blink cards are black. I thought cutting ponder and brainstorm was sacrilege however and I am already low on blue count for forces. The point of warlock class was to support a WBu take since it is a black cantrip that enables Serra’s. it is quite inefficient though.
If you went to UWb you would probably cut the 1 cmc token producers and move them up to stuff like court of grace. This makes Serra’s a lot worse however which is a unique flavour to the deck.
Assuming cutting ponder isn’t blasphemous, a WBu build would be:
4 ponder -> 2 cling to dust 2 warlock class
3 history of benalia -> 3 3feri (you need to keep blue count up)
Island -> plains
Swamp -> scrub
Island -> tundra
The problem with cutting the black 1 cmc enchantments is that your 1 land + Serra’s hands are pretty bad; you can’t enable Serra’s without getting a dual and missing one of your colours.
A UWb build would probably involve:
4 sarcomancy -> 4 Preordain
1 Serra 1 karakas 1 swamp -> 1 tundra 2 fetches
A UBw build would lose both Serra’s and ending which seems bad.
What do you think is best?
Played this at FNM
2-1 vs GB Smog Nicfit
2-0 vs Grixis Hullbreacher
0-2 vs BUG Zenith
4 Flooded Strand
4 Prismatic Vista
2 Scalding Tarn
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Prismatic Ending
4 Omen of the Sea
4 Spreading Seas
4 Estrid's Invocation
2 Force of Negation
2 Sevinne's Reclamation
2 Omen of the Forge
1 Detention Sphere
1 Humility
SB
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Blood Moon
1 Deafening Silence
1 Energy Flux
1 Pithing Needle
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Soul-Guide Lantern
1 Court of Cunning
1 Stony Silence
4 Pyroblast/REB
Main change compared to previous build is add 1 more Sevinne's Reclamation to the maindeck as the "White Uro", the midgame/lategame card that doesn't just lose to your opponent out-carding you with Iteration and 1-for-1 you with counters
The other realization I had was that playing court of grace in the sb "to dodge pyro" was stupid because the deck is already based on a 4x 3-mana blue enchantment so opponent pyro will always be able to do something. Court of Cunning can come down earlier and can be recurred by Sevinne
Because I have 2x Sevinne in the deck now and it seems a relatively important part of gameplan in different matchups I cut the RIP for a Soulguide lantern
I planned to play Eidolon of Rhetoric / Canonist and Magus of the Moon in SB so I preemptively cut the Kaheera but I didn't end up finding copies of those
In the end Court of Cunning overperformed by a lot and I ended up boarding it in every game. The deck doesn't have super ability to control the board of creatures (Humility but no sweepers etc) but you can do the combo of copying it with Estrid to gain monarch back and mill the opponent for 20 per turn anyway. I want to move it to the maindeck over one of the Omen of the Forge and then keep 1 of the omen of the forge (or swap it to some other wincon), just to have a wincon that lets me beat opponents that don't lose to mill (e.g. they have Emrakul in their deck) or you don't want to mill them (they are a Past In Flames deck or something)
Option:
a) Direct damage
- Omen of the Forge (or the Amonkhet red trial I guess)
- Impending Doom
- Words of War
b) Make tokens
- Omen of the Sun -> Also lifegain which can be relevant
- Improbable Alliance (in a vacuum this card is quite strong I think but its a bit scuffed vs narset)
- History of Benalia
- Ravens Warning (seems spicy but might warp the sb too much or just suck in general)
- The 1WR capenna card that makes 2 Citizens
c) An enchantment creature
- Riptide Chimera
- Restoration of Eiganjo / The Modern Age (Fall of Konda would be ok if the creature didn't have defender)
d) A non-enchantment creature (you can't copy it with estrid but it might be good enough anyway if its 3 cmc so you can return it with Sevinnes). A problem with creature options like this (and above, category C) is that they get bricked by Humility, which could be a problem because Humility is pretty decent in the Emrakul matchup where Court of Cunning is bad.
- Mentor
- TNN
e) Something that costs more than 3 (probably an enchantment so that you can copy with Estrid for maximum payoff)
- Court of Grace
- JTMS
- Shark Typhoon
The detention sphere is generally pretty weak and maybe should be a SB card (e.g. replacing the Seal of Cleansing)
I also think I might want to play 1 copy of Porphyry Nodes somewhere
So then the maindeck would be
-1 Omen of the Forge +1 Court of Cunning
-1 Omen of the Forge +1 Other Wincondition (Maybe)
-1 Detention Sphere +1 Flex Slot (Maybe)
and Sideboard:
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Blood Moon
2 Magus of the Moon / Ruination
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Energy Flux
1 Seal of Cleansing / Detention Sphere
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Soul-Guide Lantern
4 Pyroblast/REB
1 Pithing Needle / Porphyry Nodes / Flex Slot
Esper can maybe be okay because Trial of Ambition is good and you might get some more interesting options for the backup wincon, but Pyroblasts are great and I think you also need red for nonbasic hate vs the Mulch deck
Edit: Thinking about it more I think 1 Raven's Warning might be ~okay~
Stage 1 of making a 1/1 flying and gain 2 life is pretty good, can stabilize vs Delver ('Murktide Buffer') with Estrid copying.
Idk if I would add any weird card to SB like Terminus/Entreat or whatever, most likely there are enough decent options with a "normal" sb
Last edited by kombatkiwi; 05-07-2022 at 05:36 AM.
Big fan of Sevinne's Reclamation. Glad to see it at work.
Court of Cunning sounds effective for many reasons.
Riptide Chimera is not good. I tried to break both it and Esperzoa when they were printed but it was never quite good enough, too easy to disrupt. Those cards remain relegated to casual.
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