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Thread: Mono Red Welder Stax

  1. #21

    Re: Mono Red Welder Stax

    @FTW
    Concerning Chalice. Yeah, I've thought about giving it the axe. It's worth testing. Maybe I could cut it and open up slots for another Trinisphere, Sphere and Tangle Wire. I will say though that it certainly has been a champ when I do get it into play and has won me games. I'll test it.

    Concerning Throne of Geth. That card I've never seen and it looks amazing. Both of it's abilities are useful. For one the proliferate would be handy! Two, more ways to sac artifacts would come in super handy, especially with a Welder on the table. I will definitely test it out. Often then are times where I wish I had a way to sac artifacts just so that I had an artifact in the yard to swap back in with Welder. If I added two to the deck it would almost (not quite but almost) fill another Welder role. It's funny that you brought that to my attention because I was eyeballing Contagion Engine and thinking that it looked pretty dang sweet in this deck aside from it's cc.

    @Reepl
    Concerning Painter / Grindstone. Yes, that is another option that should be tested. I actually had originally thought about this when I was looking at Painter lists and goldfishing with Welders and Tubbies. I've seen those lists and they look close to what I'm doing with the 8 Welder engine. If only Painter and Grindstone did more by themselves. It certainly should be tested though.

    Thanks for the suggestions!!
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

  2. #22

    Re: Mono Red Welder Stax

    Okay, so I goldfished with Throne of Geth. It's best ability is that I can sac stuff like Servo Schematic or a Tangle Wire at the end of my opponents turn. I never encountered this while goldfishing but it seems that it could be useful with Smokestack by adding an additional counter then sacking it with Welder during opponents end step. The downside is that without a Welder to recur, lets say, Servo Schematic your run out of artifacts to sac to it. If I'm just running it to sac stuff Despotic Scepter and Claws of Gix are better. I need to play with it a bit more and/or actually test it in games.

    Playing with Throne of Geth makes me want to try stuff like Everflowing Chalice, Contagion Clasp and Lux Cannon.

    I'm torn by all of the different routes this deck can go. Play with Chalice? Don't play with Chalice? Play Throne of Geth?

    Another thing I want to try, which is an obvious idea, is Crucible of Worlds which sorta helps in the same way Schematic does in that I can continually recur artifact lands to sac to Welder or even Smokestack. Plus with Wasteland I get a soft lock. The problem is that if I add it to the deck then I need to open a couple slots for Wasteland and sometimes I already feel like I get mana flooded.

    A couple other cards I want to test are Devastating Dreams, Seize the Spoils and Scourglass.

    [EDIT]: Seize the Spoils is a new card from Kaldheim which essentially says:
    R2
    Sorcery
    As and additional cost to cast this spell, choose and discard a card. Draw 2 cards and create a Treasure token.

    This could come in handy in that it creates another artifact for me to sac. Or I can use the mana in a pinch. This one has potential.


    So I have a couple lists that want to try. Both without Chalice. The first includes Throne of Geth, the second includes Crucible of Worlds.


    Welder Stax with Geth's Throne: 60 cards
    Essentially with this build I cut Crucibles and 1 Mox Opal for Everflowing Chalice, Throne of Geth and Powder Keg so that there was more Throne synergy. I chose Powder Keg over Ratchet Bomb because I don't have to tap Powder Keg to put counters on it. That way I have more permanents to tap to Tangle Wire. The only drawback with Throne of Geth which I mentioned earlier is that without Welder / Servo engine you eventually are just losing artifacts to it.


    Welders: 8
    4x Goblin Engineer
    4x Goblin Welder

    Lock: 15
    4x Smokestack
    3x Lodestone Golem
    2x Sphere of Resistance
    4x Tangle Wire
    2x Trinisphere

    Tools: 13
    2x Throne of Geth
    3x Servo Schematic
    1x Ichor Wellspring
    1x Powder Keg
    2x Pyrite Spellbomb
    4x Faithless Looting

    0cc: 4
    1x Everflowing Chalice
    3x Mox Opal

    Lands: 20
    4x Ancient Tomb
    2x Cavern of Souls
    4x City of Traitors
    4x Great Furnace
    6x Mountain


    Welder Stax with Crucible: 60 cards
    Crucible of Worlds: I feel like this build is leaning more in the right direction. I really do want to continually recur artifact lands to sac to Welder. That's card advantage! I also get a soft lock with Wasteland. This feels to me to more on the right track of where I should be going. Now I'm tempted to run Barbarian Ring. Nah.. We shall see how much I miss Chalice.

    Welders: 8
    4x Goblin Engineer
    4x Goblin Welder

    Lock: 15
    4x Smokestack
    3x Lodestone Golem
    2x Sphere of Resistance
    4x Tangle Wire
    2x Trinisphere


    Tools: 11
    3x Servo Schematic
    1x Ichor Wellspring
    1x Crucible of Worlds
    2x Pyrite Spellbomb
    4x Faithless Looting

    0cc: 4
    4x Mox Opal

    Lands: 22
    4x Ancient Tomb
    2x Cavern of Souls
    4x City of Traitors
    2x Wasteland
    4x Great Furnace
    6x Mountain

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Laser Brains; 01-14-2021 at 11:53 PM.
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

  3. #23

    Re: Mono Red Welder Stax

    So I did a revamp of the deck finally tested it against Snowko. We played a total of 7 games and Welder Stax came out on top although one of the games I won almost shouldn't count because my opponent never drew any more land other than the two in his opening hand so he scooped after I dropped Tangle Wire and Trinisphere. In the end the score was 4-3.

    Game 1: I was able to quickly set up Stax pieces and locked him out fairly early.

    Game 2: This was a repeat of the first game.

    Game 3: My opponent was getting frustrated after not top decking any more lands other than his initial 2 that he drew and Stax pieces were mounting up. He scooped.

    Game 4: He finally was able to get out Oko and this game was long. Can't remember everything that happened but I wasn't able to establish the lock fast enough and he had too many permanents (land and Astrolabes) and I wasn't able to tie up his mana. I think he ended up casting Uro a few times and that extra land drop per turn allowed him to establish board control and Oko shut me down. Although I did almost deck him.

    Game 5: This game was just like the last.

    Game 6: Another game where I drew the right pieces. There were too many threats for his counters and Abrupt Decays and I locked him down within five or six turns.

    Game 7: He won this game. It looked a lot like games 3 and 4. This one I scooped. We could have played it out but he had to go to work. It was looking grim though.


    This new build of the deck feels stronger and I eliminated the Chalice "nombo" cutting it to the sb and replacing with essentially +2 Trinisphere and +2 Ensnaring Bridge. Bridges were a great addition. I feel this is starting look a lot like the "correct" build of the deck. Here's the new list:


    Welders: 8
    4x Goblin Welder
    4x Goblin Engineer

    Lock Down: 19
    4x Smokestack
    3x Lodestone Golem
    3x Sphere of Resistance
    4x Tangle Wire
    3x Trinisphere
    2x Ensnaring Bridge

    Utility: 9
    3x Servo Schematic
    1x Ichor Wellspring
    1x Pyrite Spellbomb
    4x Faithless Looting

    Mana: 24
    4x Mox Opal
    4x Ancient Tomb
    2x Cavern of Souls
    4x City of Traitors
    4x Great Furnace
    6x Mountain

    Sideboard: 15
    3x Anger of the Gods
    2x Cavern of Souls
    3x Chalice of the Void
    2x Stingscourger
    1x Thorn of Amethyst
    3x Tormod's Crypt
    1x Tsabo's Web


    Over all I am very pleased with this deck's performance. It shows resilience to almost every deck I've played it against in the gauntlet, and it's a blast to play!

    I'll get more games in at a later date if anyone is interested.
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

  4. #24
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    Re: Mono Red Welder Stax

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    So I did a revamp of the deck finally tested it against Snowko. We played a total of 7 games and Welder Stax came out on top although one of the games I won almost shouldn't count because my opponent never drew any more land other than the two in his opening hand so he scooped after I dropped Tangle Wire and Trinisphere. In the end the score was 4-3.

    Game 1: I was able to quickly set up Stax pieces and locked him out fairly early.

    Game 2: This was a repeat of the first game.

    Game 3: My opponent was getting frustrated after not top decking any more lands other than his initial 2 that he drew and Stax pieces were mounting up. He scooped.

    Game 4: He finally was able to get out Oko and this game was long. Can't remember everything that happened but I wasn't able to establish the lock fast enough and he had too many permanents (land and Astrolabes) and I wasn't able to tie up his mana. I think he ended up casting Uro a few times and that extra land drop per turn allowed him to establish board control and Oko shut me down. Although I did almost deck him.

    Game 5: This game was just like the last.

    Game 6: Another game where I drew the right pieces. There were too many threats for his counters and Abrupt Decays and I locked him down within five or six turns.

    Game 7: He won this game. It looked a lot like games 3 and 4. This one I scooped. We could have played it out but he had to go to work. It was looking grim though.


    This new build of the deck feels stronger and I eliminated the Chalice "nombo" cutting it to the sb and replacing with essentially +2 Trinisphere and +2 Ensnaring Bridge. Bridges were a great addition. I feel this is starting look a lot like the "correct" build of the deck. Here's the new list:


    Welders: 8
    4x Goblin Welder
    4x Goblin Engineer

    Lock Down: 19
    4x Smokestack
    3x Lodestone Golem
    3x Sphere of Resistance
    4x Tangle Wire
    3x Trinisphere
    2x Ensnaring Bridge

    Utility: 9
    3x Servo Schematic
    1x Ichor Wellspring
    1x Pyrite Spellbomb
    4x Faithless Looting

    Mana: 24
    4x Mox Opal
    4x Ancient Tomb
    2x Cavern of Souls
    4x City of Traitors
    4x Great Furnace
    6x Mountain

    Sideboard: 15
    3x Anger of the Gods
    2x Cavern of Souls
    3x Chalice of the Void
    2x Stingscourger
    1x Thorn of Amethyst
    3x Tormod's Crypt
    1x Tsabo's Web


    Over all I am very pleased with this deck's performance. It shows resilience to almost every deck I've played it against in the gauntlet, and it's a blast to play!

    I'll get more games in at a later date if anyone is interested.
    Great work, seems lots of fun to play! :)

    Two cards to consider:

    Sudden Demise to keep your welders alive.
    Myr Battlesphere to maximize use on welders/looting/smokestack

  5. #25

    Re: Mono Red Welder Stax

    Thank you. Yes, this deck is actually really good and is a ton of fun to play.

    Sudden Demise looks amazing! That should definitely be in the sb. Probably in the Anger of the Gods slot. Thank you Airwave!

    The sideboard does have room for improvement. I have listed above 2x Cavern of Souls on the side, that was supposed to be 2x Wasteland. I didn't catch that when I copy and pasted from my deck builder. Although, I think I could probably cut those as well. Tsabo's Web could be bumped up to 2-3x. It is particularly good against Vial based decks such as D&T, Esper Vial and Goblins. In the event it's dead or you've drawn multiple copies you can keep swapping it in and out with Welders for a draw engine. Like a less powerful Ichor Wellspring.

    I did consider Myr Battlesphere. This could be main or on the side itself. The problem I have with it is that it's difficult to hard cast and only Goblin Welder (not Goblin Engineer) can pull it from the yard. This was the same reason I'm not running Sundering Titan, Meteor Golem, Contagion Engine and Possessed Portal. I really only tested Meteor Golem but it always got stuck in my hand. Myr Battlesphere is bad ass though.

    Other cards I considered, some require a color splash:
    Root Maze fetchland hate, Tangle Wire synergies
    Emry, Lurker of the Loch
    Contagion Clasp
    Lesser Masticore discard outlet, persist
    Masticore discard outlet, removal
    Crucible of Worlds but requires Wasteland slots
    Scourglass mass removal
    Semblance Anvil
    Trading Post does every single thing I want, but I'm already running enough 4 drops
    Filigree Familiar in place maybe of Ichor Wellspring
    Perilous Myr Welder swapping shenanigans
    Buried Ruin
    Seize the Spoils
    Mind Stone
    Inventors' Fair
    Karakas
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

  6. #26

    Re: Mono Red Welder Stax

    Okay, so I'm bringing this thread back. This deck has gotten muuuuuch better and only with some minor tweaks. Modern Horizons 2 hasn't brought a lot to the table but the deck has evolved quite a bit. I've done a ton of testing and have fleshed out what works and what hasn't worked. I honestly think this deck has some legs. I'm not sure how the meta is going to evolve now that we have a bunch of new cards thanks to MH2, but it is really strong right now. Here's the deck so far:

    Welder Stax: 2.0

    Welders: 8
    4x Goblin Welder
    4x Goblin Engineer

    Lock Down: 19
    4x Smokestack
    4x Lodestone Golem
    4x Tangle Wire
    3x Trinisphere
    2x Winter Orb
    2x Ensnaring Bridge

    Utility: 9
    2x Servo Schematic
    1x Ichor Wellspring
    1x Pyrite Spellbomb
    1x The Underworld Cookbook
    4x Faithless Looting

    Mana: 24
    4x Mox Opal
    4x Ancient Tomb
    2x Cavern of Souls
    4x City of Traitors
    4x Great Furnace
    6x Mountain

    Sideboard: 15 (sb can use some work)
    2x Anger of the Gods
    1x Hangarback Walker
    2x Wasteland
    3x Chalice of the Void
    2x Stingscourger
    1x Thorn of Amethyst
    3x Tormod's Crypt
    1x Tsabo's Web

    First thing you will likely address is that you'll say it needs Karn, the Great Creator. No it doesn't. It's too slow. I have recently been testing with this guy. Seems like a no brainer here, but he's too damn slow. I had him in what I thought were my flex slots. I was running two main with a sweet silver bullet sideboard. All the goodies were there, but by the time he hits the table and I grab my silver bullet I'm a turn behind a turn and I die. These are situations where I'd much rather have drawn a lock piece like Winter Orb, Tangle Wire etc..

    Another card I've tested a bunch since I started toying around with this deck is Sphere of Resistance. This card sucks in this deck. Lodestone, even though he's more expensive to cast, doesn't slow me down like Sphere does. So Sphere got the axe in favor +1 Lodestone and +2 Winter Orb.

    Winter Orb is now main deck and is so much better than Sphere. Simply getting rid of Sphere for Winter Orb has made a gigantic difference in the deck's performance. Especially combined with taxing lock pieces such as Lodestone and Trinisphere. And in particular with Tangle Wire. Tapping out your opponent's lands while they're being taxed is aggravating for your opponent, especially since they can only untap 1 land per turn. Don't worry about the anti synergy by not wanting to turn off your Winter Orb or Trinisphere with TW's ability. You'll have plenty of other stuff to tap to it. Even if you don't, it literally buys you turns and creates tempo.

    The Underworld Cookbook is exactly what I was looking for in the flex slot. If you read my earlier posts you'll see that I was looking for a decent artifact (it's cheap to cast thus helping activate Opals) that will help put stuff into my yard for me to Welder back out. This card does that and also gives me another artifact (food) in which I can tap to TW, sac to Smokestack or sac to Welders for the artifact I discarded to it. [EDIT] That last part alone makes it worth. I can literally discard a lock piece, create a token and then sac the token to Welder to grab the lock piece I discarded. I'm almost looking to cut something just so I can run 2-3 main.

    Not only that, I can sac the Foods for life gain which is actually very relevant, especially in aggro/tempo match ups. I haven't encountered this yet, but I can actually use it's secondary ability to recur my welders and then weld it back in again.

    I've had some great results with this deck and would love to take this to a big event and see how it stacks up. It's a hard one for me to test though because it really pisses off my opponent (my main test/play buddy) and he gets tired of playing against it.

    A list of cards that I've toyed with: Gadrak, the Crown-Scourge I haven't tested yet but looks really strong if you wanted to add a clock. Although conditional, Ragavan looks pretty sweet too.

    1x Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer
    1x Breya's Apprentice
    1x Filigree Familiar
    1x Gadrak, the Crown-Scourge
    1x Gleaming Barrier
    1x Goblin Rabblemaster
    1x Goldspan Dragon
    1x Lesser Masticore
    1x Masticore
    1x Perilous Myr
    1x Slag Strider
    1x Crucible of Worlds
    1x Everflowing Chalice
    1x Grim Monolith
    1x Lux Cannon
    1x Scourglass
    1x Semblance Anvil
    1x Trading Post
    1x Treasure Map
    1x Devastating Dreams
    1x Pirate's Pillage
    1x Seize the Spoils
    1x Strike it Rich
    1x Smashing Success
    1x Buried Ruin
    Last edited by Laser Brains; 06-22-2021 at 02:31 PM.
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

  7. #27

    Re: Mono Red Welder Stax

    Also, almost forgot, Urza's Saga looks really good in this list as well.
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

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