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Thread: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

  1. #81

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    Oops! I just realized that Arcbound Ravager and Arcbound Worker are from Darksteel, not Mirrodin, so they're not legal in this rotation. They played a big role in two of the decks I was building, Mono-Black Affinity and R/b Skeleton Shard. I've removed the illegal deck lists.

    Edit: Wow, and I even had Cranial Plating, which is from Fifth Dawn, in my Dark Affinity list and a couple of other drafts (I wanted to put it on Cephalid Constable in an affinity/bounce/black Vise deck). I really need to slow down and pay attention to what sets cards belong to.
    Last edited by BirdsOfParadise; 07-25-2021 at 02:50 AM.

  2. #82
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    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    Oops! I just realized that Arcbound Ravager and Arcbound Worker are from Darksteel, not Mirrodin, so they're not legal in this rotation. They played a big role in two of the decks I was building, Mono-Black Affinity and R/b Skeleton Shard. I've removed the illegal deck lists.
    There must be a viable Skeleton Shard deck but maybe it's a more controlling build in blue instead of the aggressive RB stuff (difficult without Arcbounds). You can also abuse Cabal Therapy with value creatures you don't mind sacrificing.


    //Spells: 16
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Chainer's Edict
    4 Thirst for Knowledge
    2 Fabricate
    2 Syncopate

    //Artifacts: 12
    4 Scrabbling Claws
    4 Talisman of Dominance
    2 Skeleton Shard
    1 Crystal Shard
    1 Nevinyrral's Disk

    //Artifact Creatures: 17
    4 Myr Retriever
    4 Bottle Gnomes
    4 Solemn Simulacrum
    2 Dross Scorpion
    1 Triskelion
    1 Duplicant
    1 Platinum Angel

    //Lands: 25
    1 Sand Silos
    4 Darkwater Catacombs
    14 Swamp
    6 Island


    There's a lot of card advantage there through Thirst for Knowledge (pitching an artifact creature or flashback spell that can be used from the graveyard), recursion (retriever, skeleton shard), flashback spells, and value creatures. The deck can attack graveyards and recover from hellbent. Fabricate grabs silver bullets.

    Dross Scorpion untaps Skeleton Shard. Lategame for every 3B spent, you can burn Bottle Gnomes to gain 3, stack an untap trigger, and get it back with Shard.

    Retreiver + Shard insulate each other from removal and give lategame inevitability. If you crack Disk with both Retriever and Shard out, Retreiver will trigger to return Shard, which can return Retriever to then return more things, so you can eventually loop Disk too.

  3. #83

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    Thanks, FTW, for keeping my Skeleton Shard hopes alive!

    Iím finding that White Weenie is more than just an anti-black meta deck. It has a low curve, perfect mana, flexible removal, and a proactive game plan. The fact that half of its creatures have protection from black is an additional upside in a lot of matchups, but even against against TerraGeddon, where thatís a nonissue, White Weenie does just fine. I just took FTWís list, swapped out Crusade for Divine Sacrament (because Crusade is now banned across all formats), threw together a sideboard of Scrabbling Claws, Jinxed Choker and CoPs, and itís doing great.

    For the TerraGeddon deck, I think there needs to be a sideboard plan against low-curve decks that donít mind Geddon and Winter Orb so much. The mana denial is highly effective against control decks, but against aggro there needs to be something to board in. Maybe just a big 5cc value critter, if there is one.

    For the Psychatog deck and any other black control deck, Iím convinced you need 4x Chainerís Edict. Itís the flashback on that card that always wins the topdeck war. Isochron Scepter is weird ó when itís good, itís great, but quite often itís bad because the options are too limited in UB. About once per game, that Psychatog deck wishes it could put Chainerís Edict on Scepter. I donít know the answer to the dilemma of needing more/better instants and also needing more Chainerís Edict, but right now aggro is a tough matchup for that Psychatog deck.

    Random thought about that black aggro deck that ESG and FTW both posted variants of: You can put Bad Moon in the board against nonblack decks. That card seems worthy of inclusion in the maindeck if it werenít for all the other black decks running around. Also, Braids, Cabal Minion was banned in Standard at one point IIRC, but itís legal here. T2 Braids on the play off of a Ritual seems like it could be GG. Is Braids good in this format?

  4. #84
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    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    Iím finding that White Weenie is more than just an anti-black meta deck. It has a low curve, perfect mana, flexible removal, and a proactive game plan. The fact that half of its creatures have protection from black is an additional upside in a lot of matchups, but even against against TerraGeddon, where thatís a nonissue, White Weenie does just fine. I just took FTWís list, swapped out Crusade for Divine Sacrament (because Crusade is now banned across all formats), threw together a sideboard of Scrabbling Claws, Jinxed Choker and CoPs, and itís doing great.
    Glad it's performing. White has the best removal (StP, Disenchant), best ramp (Land Tax), and very efficient threats so I thought that deck would have potential. WW was a staple for a long time and most of the key pieces are in this format! (Javelineers, Lions, anthem, knights, StP)


    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    For the TerraGeddon deck, I think there needs to be a sideboard plan against low-curve decks that donít mind Geddon and Winter Orb so much. The mana denial is highly effective against control decks, but against aggro there needs to be something to board in. Maybe just a big 5cc value critter, if there is one.
    Good point. Against other aggro decks (especially those also running Winter Orbs and Land Tax), TerraGeddon needs to board out all Orbs and some Geddons and needs something else to bring in. The deck needs to make sure it has enough fatties to beat smaller creatures. Cutting Ernhams (4/5) probably hurt against weenie, where you could give Forestwalk to a 1/1 and then attack through 2 knights (5 toughness). I think that's how that deck normally handled matchups where Geddon was bad. Geddon+Orb then ensures opponent can't get anything bigger than Djinn.

    I wouldn't go below 6 4-drops main (4 Phantom Centaur + 2 Mystic Enforcer). SB could have Genesis (hardcast as 4/4, or discard to Mongrel for grind). Could also bring in Ernhams and maybe even Serra Angel for evasion.



    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    Random thought about that black aggro deck that ESG and FTW both posted variants of: You can put Bad Moon in the board against nonblack decks. That card seems worthy of inclusion in the maindeck if it werenít for all the other black decks running around. Also, Braids, Cabal Minion was banned in Standard at one point IIRC, but itís legal here. T2 Braids on the play off of a Ritual seems like it could be GG. Is Braids good in this format?
    I feared Bad Moon would be a bad meta choice due to how many other decks may be running black creatures. But 4 SB could be good.

    Braids is strong but needs support to break the parity. I see two possible directions:
    1) Slow control with recursion elements (Nether Spirit and Crucible of Worlds are out of the format though)
    2) TurboVise deck to punish opponent keeping cards in hand

    The last one has better support in this format, but unfortunately opposes running cards like Hymn and Hippie that you would normally want in a Dark Ritual deck.

    Recursion could be done through Myr Retriever + Skeleton Shard. Heck, you could just go -2 Syncopate +2 Braids in my above Shard deck.


    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    For the Psychatog deck and any other black control deck, Iím convinced you need 4x Chainerís Edict. Itís the flashback on that card that always wins the topdeck war. Isochron Scepter is weird ó when itís good, itís great, but quite often itís bad because the options are too limited in UB. About once per game, that Psychatog deck wishes it could put Chainerís Edict on Scepter. I donít know the answer to the dilemma of needing more/better instants and also needing more Chainerís Edict, but right now aggro is a tough matchup for that Psychatog deck.
    For Scepter, aside from the usual targets of Counterspell or Ghastly Demise, the idea was to use Cunning Wish to grab a hate spell that blows out that matchup and imprint that.

    With multiple Scepters there's some tech like taking Blue Elemental Blast on one and Alter Reality on the 2nd. Then you can counter any colored spells and vindicate any colored permanents. That's all slow and durdly though vs aggro. The deck probably needs Mutilates to keep creatures in check.

    Esper colors would be ideal for white's better removal, but the mana is terrible. ESG's Scepter list should be better than mine, especially against aggro, due to StP and Wrath.

  5. #85

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    I tested Mono-Black Control with two or three Culling Scales in conjunction with Nevinyrralís Disk. It was pretty devastating. In addition to mopping up creatures and Chrome Moxes, those cards were letting MBC breeze past nasty things like Winter Orb and Lifeforce. If the opponent tries to ďplay intoĒ Culling Scales to maintain tempo, they wreck themselves, and if they hold back their plays until the Scales expire, their slowness plays into MBCís hands (that is, into a Mind Sludge). Iíll be keeping Culling Scales in my version of the deck.

  6. #86
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    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    I tested Mono-Black Control with two or three Culling Scales in conjunction with Nevinyrralís Disk. It was pretty devastating. In addition to mopping up creatures and Chrome Moxes, those cards were letting MBC breeze past nasty things like Winter Orb and Lifeforce. If the opponent tries to ďplay intoĒ Culling Scales to maintain tempo, they wreck themselves, and if they hold back their plays until the Scales expire, their slowness plays into MBCís hands (that is, into a Mind Sludge). Iíll be keeping Culling Scales in my version of the deck.
    Good tech to beat the attempts to hate out control with enchantments, artifacts and color hate. What did you cut for it?

  7. #87

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    A Promise of Power and a Diabolic Tutor, which may or may not be good cuts. I have no experience with the original Odyssey-block MBC, but a few matches against proactive decks in our current rotation led me to feel that MBC was against the ropes a lot, needing help in the pre-Cabal Coffers phase of the game and not in the super-powerful endgame.

    Iím excited about this rotation (can you tell?), so itís been fun to playtest, but my sample size of games is tiny, so take what I say with a large grain of salt :-)

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