Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 87

Thread: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

  1. #21
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    3,266

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    Any progress or interest in this format since?

    The top contenders seem to be UW Rebels, Tangle Elves, Pox, UWx control, and mono U tempo (Ensoul Artifact, Angel).
    Blue Xerox dominates, but I like that other nonblue strategies are viable too.

    Is there a monored burn deck? Red has aggressive tools like Seal of Fire, Incinerate, Flame Rift, Stoke the Flames, Goblin Rabblemaster and mana denial tools.
    Red also gets to run powerful hate cards like Pyroblast, Brutal Suppression, Anarchy, Omen of Fire, Pyrokinesis. Given that the best strategies are in UW or weenie aggro, red naturally has the most efficient hate to fight it.


    Goblins.dec


    //Spells: 19
    4 Seal of Fire
    2 Death Spark
    4 Incinerate
    4 Flame Rift
    2 Rhystic Lightning
    3 Stoke the Flames

    //Creatures: 19
    4 Foundry Street Denizen
    3 Frenzied Goblin
    4 Borderland Marauder
    4 Goblin Rabblemaster
    1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
    3 Moggcatcher

    //Planeswalker:
    2 Chandra, Pyromaster

    //Lands: 20
    4 Rishadan Port
    16 Mountain

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Pyroblast
    2 Paragon of Fierce Defiance
    2 Brutal Suppression
    2 Guerrilla Tactics
    2 Anarchy
    2 Pyrokinesis
    1 Omen of Fire


    It seems correct to jam 4x Pyroblast to fight the blue decks.
    Anarchy is a 1-sided wrath vs Rebels and also answers First Response
    Guerrilla Tactics and Squee provide some redundancy vs black discard.

    Another option is to play mana denial Stone Rain+Pillage with fast clocks that punish the opponent for stumbling or being tapped out. This is higher variance with "bad cards" and likely worse than just playing good Goblins aggro, but also seems more fun.

    Sligh.dec


    //Creatures: 20
    4 Branded Brawlers
    2 Forge Devil
    4 Veteran Brawler
    4 Varchild's War-Riders
    4 Goblin Rabblemaster
    2 Crag Saurian

    //Spells: 21
    4 Seal of Fire
    2 Tremor
    4 Incinerate
    4 Stone Rain
    4 Pillage
    3 Pyrokinesis

    //Lands: 19
    4 Rishadan Port
    15 Mountain

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Pyroblast
    3 Citadel of Pain
    3 Brutal Suppression
    2 Cave-In
    2 Lava Runner
    1 Omen of Fire


    LD enables the brawlers.
    Burn enables War Riders and Crag Saurian
    Postboard Citadel of Pain punishes ramp decks to enable Brawlers or dodge counters
    Tangle Wire and other mana denial are options too.
    Last edited by FTW; 02-26-2021 at 09:46 AM.

  2. #22

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    FTW, cool red decks! Varchildís War-Riders... dang. Anyway, the format is rotating on you :-)

    Thanks to those who participated/commented in February. We had some interesting decks: Counter-Rebels, BR Midrange, Mono-U Tempo (Pirate style and Artifact style), UW Control, UW Tempo, Mono-B Pox, URW Midrange Tokens, GW Elves, Mono-G Elves, Mono-R Goblins, and Mono-R Sligh.

    *** MARCH 2021 RANDOM STANDARD @ THE SOURCE ***

    10th Edition

    Mirrodin
    Darksteel
    Fifth Dawn

    Zendikar
    Worldwake
    Rise of the Eldrazi

    Banned list:
    (*) Six cards with type ďArtifact LandĒ:
    > Ancient Den
    > Seat of the Synod
    > Vault of Whispers
    > Great Furnace
    > Tree of Tales
    > Darksteel Citadel
    (*) Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    (*) Skullclamp
    (*) Stoneforge Mystic

  3. #23
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    3,266

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    Banning the artifact lands seems wise, otherwise Affinity is Tier 0.
    There's probably still a Ravager-Affinity deck powered by Serum Visions and Thoughtcast but it won't be nearly as strong without the artifact lands.

    There are strong aggressive decks powered by Zendikar block.

    Boros Landfall


    //Creatures: 20
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Steppe Lynx
    4 Goblin Bushwhacker
    4 Plated Geopede
    4 Kor Skyfisher

    //Spells: 16
    4 Burst Lightning
    4 Devastating Summons
    4 Searing Blaze
    2 Journey to Nowhere
    2 Staggershock

    //Lands: 24
    4 Teetering Peaks
    4 Battlefield Forge
    4 Arid Mesa
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Marsh Flats
    4 Mountain
    4 Plains

    //Sideboard: 15
    3 Kor Sanctifiers
    2 Journey to Nowhere
    2 Staggershock
    2 Mark of Mutiny
    2 Kor Hookmaster
    ...


    That's a block constructed deck that was Tier 1 in Standard for a while. There may not even be anything in Mirrodin block to improve it. The secret strength of the deck comes from the midgame combo of Devastating Summons + Goblin Bushwhacker. If you tap and sacrifice 3 lands from an empty board (e.g. after a Wrath), it's 10-power haste attacking. 12-power for 4 lands. That's usually enough to finish the opponent off after initial damage from the 1-drops.



    Beastmaster Ramp


    //Creatures: 29
    4 Llanowar Elves
    4 Joraga Treespeaker
    3 Arbor Elf
    4 Lotus Cobra
    4 Nest Invader
    4 Vengevine
    4 Wolfbriar Elemental
    2 Kozilek's Predator

    //LOL Win: 8
    4 Beastmaster Ascension
    4 Eldrazi Monument

    //Lands: 23
    4 Khalni Garden
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    11 Forest

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Leatherback Baloth
    2 Molder Slug
    2 Naturalize
    1 Mold Shambler
    2 Awakening Zone
    2 Grazing Gladehart
    2 Eternal Witness


    With all those mana dorks and tokens you can ramp quickly and go wide with Wolfbriar, Beastmaster or Monument. Monument also protects the creatures from burn and Wraths.


    Even with SFM banned, there's probably some good white equipment deck between the two blocks

    Kor Equip Aggro


    //Creatures: 25
    4 Kitesail Apprentice
    4 Kor Duelist
    4 Kor Aeronaut
    4 Armament Master
    2 Auriok Steelshaper
    4 Field Marshal
    3 Kor Hookmaster

    //Spells: 8
    4 Steelshaper's Gift
    4 Brave the Elements

    //Equipment: 7
    4 Bonesplitter
    1 Lightning Greaves
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Sword of Light and Shadow

    //Lands: 20
    20 Plains

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Kor Firewalker
    3 Kor Sanctifiers
    3 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
    2 Devout Lightcaster
    3 Journey to Nowhere


    T1 Duelist/Kitesail into T2 Bonesplitter is an attacking 4/2 flying or 3/1 double strike. That probably gets through any board presence for early damage and threatens to end the game quickly. Back that up with 10-12 lords, Brave the Elements, and tempo tricks to get through blockers and this is another quick aggro clock.
    Last edited by FTW; 03-01-2021 at 07:38 PM.

  4. #24

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    I was thinking that with Mephidross Vampire + Triskelion, Platinum Angel + Leonin Abunas, and Emrakul + Battle Rampart, there must be something good one could put together with Tooth and Nail.

    Iím on my phone or Iíd try a little harder with the card tags :D

  5. #25
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    3,266

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    Interesting.

    The tough parts would be ramping to high enough mana and surviving long enough, because aggro has too many turn 4 wins (that Guide-Lynx-Bushwhacker was Tier 1 in Standard for a while +/- a few Alara slots like Path to Exile). Even midrange tokens can get way out of hand quickly. So it would have to be a finisher in some 26-28 land controlling deck.

    For ramp there's Rampant Growth, Explore, Khalni Heart Expedition, Journey of Discovery, Growth Spasm, Civic Wayfinder, Oracle of Mul Daya, Solemn Simulacrum, Reap and Sow

    For board control there's both Day of Judgment and Wrath of God in the format, along with Condemn, Journey to Nowhere and Aura of Silence, so white is a natural secondary color.

    For a third color, blue could be good if there are enough good counterspells with a single blue in the mana cost.

    Here's a draft for a GW Ramp Tooth and Nail idea


    //Creatures: 14
    4 Wall of Omens
    3 Eternal Witness
    3 Oracle of Mul Daya
    1 Triskelion
    1 Mephidross Vampire
    1 Avenger of Zendikar
    1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

    //Spells: 16
    3 Condemn
    3 Explore
    4 Rampant Growth
    4 Wrath of God
    2 Tooth and Nail

    //Planeswalkers: 3
    3 Gideon Jura

    //Lands: 27
    4 Graypelt Refuge
    4 Stirring Wildwood
    4 Blinkmoth Nexus
    7 Forest
    7 Plains
    1 Eye of Ugin

    //Sideboard: 15
    3 Aura of Silence
    3 Kor Firewalker
    2 Grazing Gladehart
    2 Kor Sanctifiers
    2 Journey to Nowhere
    2 Rampaging Baloths
    1 Avenger of Zendikar


    The maindeck is just ramp and stalling until Tooth and Nail comes online. Manlands and Gideon can also get there.

    The SB is loaded with anti-aggro lifegain (to live long enough) and artifact kill (vs Affinity, equipment decks, and Eldrazi Monument).
    There's a secondary wincon of just winning with landfall token makers.

    Maybe you can come up with something better for Tooth and Nail. Making it to 9 mana is the hardest part. Zendikar+Mirrodin has very fast aggro.

    Chalice of the Void+Trinisphere+Chrome Mox is possible.

    Another option could be to play GR ramp with Valakut, the Molten Pinnacles and use burn like Staggershock and Chain Reaction to control early creatures. Valakut justifies running questionable ramp like Khalni Heart Expedition and Journey of Discovery, which all helps hit 9 mana for Tooth.
    Last edited by FTW; 03-01-2021 at 06:50 PM.

  6. #26

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    Random ideas:
    Academy Researchers + Eldrazi Conscription
    Khalni Garden + Proteus Staff (for Emrakul of course; Ancient Stirrings is a super good cantrip in this deck)

  7. #27
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    3,266

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    Too bad Polymorph is in M10 and 9th edition but not 10th edition. With Polymorph+Proteus Staff the deck would be very consistent. Mirrodin does have Fabricate to tutor for Proteus Staff.

    You still have Awakening Zone, Blinkmoth Nexus, and maybe Growth Spasm as noncreature "creatures".

    Back that up with some card draw: Ancient Stirrings, Serum Visions, Explore...
    Last edited by FTW; 03-01-2021 at 06:52 PM.

  8. #28
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    3,266

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    Mono G Emrakul Stompy might be a thing


    //Lands: 25
    2 Eye of Ugin
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    4 Cloudpost
    4 Khalni Garden
    11 Forest

    //Spells: 23
    4 Ancient Stirrings
    4 Expedition Map
    4 Sylvan Scrying
    4 Explore
    4 Summoning Trap
    3 All is Dust

    //Creatures: 11
    4 Elvish Piper
    4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
    1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
    1 Rampaging Baloths

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lodestone Golem
    4 Nature's Claim
    3 Eternal Witness


    Elvish Piper + Summoning Trap + Eldrazi land ramp might be enough to get away running 4x Emrakul
    4Post is pretty bad, but we do have all 12 land tutors used in Modern.

    All is Dust might need to be in the maindeck.
    SB plan is to board in resistors against fast decks.
    Last edited by FTW; 03-01-2021 at 09:45 PM.

  9. #29

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    Well, aggro can't be the alpha and the omega of this rotation, since it can be hated out by a deck that can also grind infinite value (against non-aggro) ---

    4 Condemn
    4 Wall of Omens
    4 Lone Missionary
    4 Eternal Witness
    # Crystal Shard
    etc

    Plenty of directions to go in, I'd assume, with WGu colors. Options include Naturalize, Solemn Simulacrum, Wrath of God, Into the Roil, Spell Pierce... and of course you need to decide if you want Aether Vial for the "infinite value for almost no mana at instant speed" dream.

  10. #30
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    3,266

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    Yeah, I just meant aggro should keep out slow 9 cmc durdly ramp stuff like Tooth and Naili.

    The WGx control deck gets a lot better by playing Good Stuff instead of forcing Tooth. Blue has Celestial Colonnade. The 8 manlands are enough win conditions.


    //Creatures: 15
    4 Wall of Omens
    4 Sea Gate Oracle
    4 Eternal Witness
    3 Solemn Simulacrum

    //Planeswalkers: 3
    3 Gideon Jura

    //Artifacts: 2
    2 Crystal Shard

    //Spells: 14
    4 Condemn
    4 Explore
    2 Into the Roil
    4 Wrath of God

    //Lands: 26
    4 Celestial Colonnade
    4 Stirring Wildwood
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Brushland
    2 Adarkar Wastes
    2 Yavimaya Coast
    3 Forest
    3 Plains
    2 Island

    //Sideboard: 15
    3 Lone Missionary
    2 Annul
    2 Flashfreeze
    2 Dispel
    2 Cancel
    2 Kor Sanctifiers
    2 Journey to Nowhere


    21 cantrips.dec should be pretty hard to outvalue, especially after Crystal Shard comes online lategame.

  11. #31
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    3,266
    Last edited by FTW; 03-13-2021 at 12:43 PM.

  12. #32

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    The format is rotating!

    *** APRIL 2021 RANDOM STANDARD @ THE SOURCE ***

    (*) Magic 2011 (M11)

    (*) Mirage
    (*) Visions
    (*) Weatherlight

    (*) Odyssey
    (*) Torment
    (*) Judgment

    Banned cards: Entomb, Vampiric Tutor

    ***

    I added Entomb to the banned list after posting the update. Hopefully I didn't ninja anyone's good deck idea. The play that convinced me to ban the card is T1 Entomb a Titan (Primeval Titan or maybe Grave Titan), T2 Shallow Grave. Untapping six lands on T3 seems too easy, especially when there are other consistency tools like Careful Study to increase the likelihood of this happening. The other use of Entomb seems to be T3 wins with Worldgorger Dragon and Necromancy. I don't mind having that combo in the format, but with Entomb the possibilities are too scary.

  13. #33

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    So, right off the bat you've got Dragon Combo with Worldgorger Dragon and Necromancy.

    There might be some kind of hybrid Flash Reanimator that can use Flash as a value-gaining discard outlet for titans like Primeval Titan. Maybe that deck is the same as the Dragon Combo deck since they're both Reanimator variants? Or maybe the Titan deck uses Shallow Grave?

    With Odyssey block there's the possibility of a UG Madness deck, although I'm not sure how much that gains from the other sets in the format. It would have countermagic and possibly creature bounce as ways to fight Reanimator.

    Psychatog and Upheaval are in the format. No matter how nasty the Reanimator decks get, Psychatog can hate them by combining countermagic with Coffin Purge and Phyrexian Furnace as needed. Maybe the question isn't "what can beat Reanimator" but actually "what can beat Psychatog"?

    Are there aggro decks out there that can put pressure on Psychatog from another angle?

  14. #34
    The green Ancestral
    ESG's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2010
    Location

    Seattle, WA
    Posts

    1,267

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    Are there aggro decks out there that can put pressure on Psychatog from another angle?
    At first blush, aggro seems like a tough road in this format. Control seems real strong, though. Here's my first entry:


    UW Hawkcestrals

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Preordain
    1 Impulse
    4 Mana Leak
    4 Squadron Hawk
    2 Tithe
    2 Mystical Tutor
    1 Unsummon
    1 Condemn
    2 Disenchant
    3 Day of Judgment
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    3 Phyrexian Furnace
    1 Elixir of Immortality
    1 Sky Diamond
    1 Marble Diamond
    2 Baneslayer Angel
    2 Jace Beleren

    1 Flood Plain
    4 Glacial Fortress
    4 Terramorphic Expanse
    7 Island
    4 Plains

  15. #35
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    3,266

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    Aggro looks extremely weak this time around.

    Brainstorm is not in Mirage block. It was in 5th edition at the time, but not in Block.

    For comedic value, Battle of Wits is in the format next to all the Mirage Tutors and Wishes. But that's losing most games to Psychatog.

    Due to the existence of Psychatog+Upheaval, you probably don't want to be durdling forever in long slow games. I think the best axes to fight it would be Tempo (UG Madness, Dreadstill) or Combo (Reanimator, ProsBloom).

    Mirage has very good combo enablers: Dark Ritual, Lion's Eye Diamond, tutors, Impulse, Doomsday, Ancestral Knowledge. Odyssey block adds Wishes and cantrips. M11 has Preordain. Card selection is very very good as long as you can find some 2-3 card combo to win the game in these sets.

    The format has both Polymorph and Mass Polymorph but lacks anything truly devastating to cheat out better than Flash or Necromancy could.

    Phyrexian Dreadnought+Vision Charm is a thing, and Standstill is in the format to unfairly give you cards back after powering out a big Dreadnought or Psychatog.

    Wizards tribal may be possible with Patron Wizard and Shadowmage Infiltrator.

    The Leyline of the Void+Web of Inertia combo may be good just because maindeck Leyline hates out many graveyard-based engines in this format. Sadly Helm of Obedience is in Alliances, otherwise that would be my tier 1 control-combo Troll deck.

    UG Madness is probably a good place to start.


    //Creatures: 23
    4 Birds of Paradise
    4 Basking Rootwalla
    4 Wild Mongrel
    4 Aquamoeba
    4 Arrogant Wurm
    3 Wonder

    //Spells: 18
    4 Preordain
    4 Careful Study
    1 Quiet Speculation
    4 Circular Logic
    3 Deep Analysis
    2 Roar of the Wurm

    //Lands: 19
    4 Terramorphic Expanse
    2 Undiscovered Paradise
    6 Island
    5 Forest
    1 Centaur Garden

    //Sideboard: 15
    3 Mana Leak
    3 Unsummon
    3 Phyrexian Furnace
    1 Envelop
    1 Divert
    X depends on format


    M11 adds Birds, Preordain and Terramorphic. All 3 seem good. Undiscovered Paradise provides lacking manafixing (no UG duals) while also going back to hand to fuel madness when you're flooded. Nimble Mongoose might also be good.

    Edit: I wonder if Lion's Eye Diamond mana could be used to accelerate the madness and flashback plans, then rebuild your hand with Deep Analysis.
    With LED + land you can have explosive starts like
    T1 Flying 6/6 wurm + Rootwalla
    T1 Arrogant Wurm + Rootwalla + Circular Logic your T1 play
    T1 Careful Study -> flying Arrogant Wurm + Rootwalla with Deep Analysis in the graveyard
    Last edited by FTW; 04-12-2021 at 08:59 AM.

  16. #36

  17. #37

  18. #38
    The green Ancestral
    ESG's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2010
    Location

    Seattle, WA
    Posts

    1,267

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Brainstorm is not in Mirage block. It was in 5th edition at the time, but not in Block.
    Oh, whoops. That makes things more balanced. Guess I'll run three Dream Cache and an extra Impulse in its stead.

    Spot removal is poor enough in the format that an LED madness aggro start could pay off.

  19. #39

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    I was a bit surprised that two out of the first three Random Standard rotations I generated turned out to be Brainstorm + fetch land formats! :-)

    I'm even more surprised, though, that Nic Fit can be built. Ramping both players is such a unusual game plan that I hope it would prove competitive for variety's sake.

  20. #40
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    3,266

    Re: Random Standard @ The Source 2021

    Yeah, I thought it was cool that Nic Fit could be built with a MOST-type engine using creature tutors (Fauna Shaman, Worldly Tutor) and ramp (Birds, Veteran, Quirion Ranger untaps). It's probably not competitively viable in a Standard format where the opponent plays decks with a high curve and high number of basics. But there are some fun tricks available, like Braids, Cabal Minion+Reassembling Skeleton lock or looping ETB creatures using Genesis and sac outlets like Sadistic Hypnotist/Braids. That deck might be better just by replacing the Veterans with regular ramp like Llanowar Elves.

    For Madness, yeah the all-in LED version might just be better. The control decks are slow: ETB tapped lands, 2-mana spot removal, 2-mana counterspells. It might be viable to just drop a lot of power on turn 1 before they can interact.


    //Spells: 20
    4 Preordain
    4 Careful Study
    4 Circular Logic
    4 Deep Analysis
    4 Roar of the Wurm

    //Creatures: 18
    4 Basking Rootwalla
    4 Wild Mongrel
    2 Aquamoeba
    4 Arrogant Wurm
    4 Wonder

    //Mana: 22
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    3 Undiscovered Paradise
    3 Gemstone Mine
    6 Island
    6 Forest


    LED enables starts with turn 1 flying 6/6 or 4/4 trample.

    Dragon Reanimator might still be strong even with Entomb and Vamp Tutor banned. You still have Buried Alive, Dark Ritual, Mystical Tutor, Burning Wish, Cunning Wish, Necromancy... You can protect the combo with Duress, Abeyance, Cabal Therapy.

    If you Buried Alive for Worldgorger Dragon+Reckless Embermage+other card then Necromancy leads to infinite damage. You could also Wish for a win condition like Volcanic Geyser, Drain Life, or Kaervek's Torch.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)