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Thread: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

  1. #201
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    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    Chalice of the Void regularly reads, "Play a land, then play this thing and do whatever you want because you win the game unless your opponent concedes, in which case you win the game." For some reason, I'm the only person who seems to have a problem with that.

    I made the chunderbucket pile that was able to chalice first turn every single game. I won many games, but not a single match...
    you are the only person who seems to have a problem with that.

  2. #202

    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    So, they finally tried to make a fixed version of Library of Alexandria. The 2 to activate probably makes it safeish. At least for Standard.

  3. #203

    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    That's a valid question, but there's a big difference between something that says, "Do nine things then pay four mana for this other thing to win the game" and something that says, "Do this thing, then pay two mana and win the game." In comparison, Chalice of the Void regularly reads, "Play a land, then play this thing and do whatever you want because you win the game unless your opponent concedes, in which case you win the game." For some reason, I'm the only person who seems to have a problem with that.

    The storm mechanic is excellent, and I won't argue with that, but it's not the mechanic that's the problem with Magecraft: It's that there's already a two-mana card that says, "Win if you have something with Magecraft," and they're dropping 2-cmc Magecraft cards into an environment that has that.

    EDIT: I'm actually excited to see what people do with Chain of Smog. It's unfair for me to complain about easy combos when Dark Ritual is a legal card.
    If you don't want to get blown up by Chalice just don't play cantrips lol. Reminds me of Vintage blue players who kept whining because Shops was the obvious best deck but they wouldn't let go of their precious blue stew so they had to play a bunch of pyroblasts and other such do-nothings against Shops which kept reinforcing its dominance. At some point for the meta to ebb and flow part of the playerbase must be willing to be moved. You can lead a horse to water, but...

  4. #204
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    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    Quote Originally Posted by chunderbucket View Post
    If you don't want to get blown up by Chalice just don't play cantrips lol. Reminds me of Vintage blue players who kept whining because Shops was the obvious best deck but they wouldn't let go of their precious blue stew so they had to play a bunch of pyroblasts and other such do-nothings against Shops which kept reinforcing its dominance. At some point for the meta to ebb and flow part of the playerbase must be willing to be moved. You can lead a horse to water, but...

    This isn't the first time you've made this argument. It was stupid then, and nothing's changed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Quick question, are you also still waiting for the great pumpkin it did you finally pick it in once December hit?
    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.

  5. #205

    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    Seems solid to me. What makes you think it stupid, besides that it doesn't agree with your perspective? Seriously, I'd like to know. Calling something stupid with no other dialogue is pretty useless.

    Chalice + FoW is something I'm growing more and more interested in, and it's because of a similar viewpoint of noninflammable and chunderbucket.

  6. #206
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    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    Seems solid to me. What makes you think it stupid, besides that it doesn't agree with your perspective? Seriously, I'd like to know. Calling something stupid with no other dialogue is pretty useless.
    So is telling people to play Impulse instead of Ponder. So is claiming that Burn is fine against Chalice. So is saying that shutting out half the nonland cards in your opponent's deck on the first turn for two mana is fine. So is saying you're "policing the format" when you get double mana from half the lands in your deck and curve into a turn-2 Thoughtseize on a 4/4. So is saying that a deck that lives or dies by virtue of a single quad in the deck makes the deck competitive, then complaining when it isn't. Or, for that matter, saying that if you meme harder, you'll beat that deck and have a good tournament result in spite of the fact that you'll lose to everyone else. I've explained myself numerous times in numerous places, including (especially?) on this forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    Chalice + FoW is something I'm growing more and more interested in, and it's because of a similar viewpoint of noninflammable and chunderbucket.
    Yes. Good for you and them. You're not contradicting anything I've said about how Chalice is too good or about how changing the rules because reasons has crapped on decks that don't play the cards you mentioned.

    4x Chalice
    4x Mox Diamond
    4x Saprazzan Skerry
    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    Xx Island

    4x Sphinx of Foresight
    4x TNN
    4x Thought-Knot Seer
    4x Force of Will
    4x Force of Negation
    4x Cloud of Faeries
    4x Daze
    4x Impulse. Because people said it's good.
    Xx Jace, or something.

    There's your start.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Quick question, are you also still waiting for the great pumpkin it did you finally pick it in once December hit?
    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.

  7. #207

    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    So is telling people to play Impulse instead of Ponder. So is claiming that Burn is fine against Chalice. So is saying that shutting out half the nonland cards in your opponent's deck on the first turn for two mana is fine. So is saying you're "policing the format" when you get double mana from half the lands in your deck and curve into a turn-2 Thoughtseize on a 4/4. So is saying that a deck that lives or dies by virtue of a single quad in the deck makes the deck competitive, then complaining when it isn't. Or, for that matter, saying that if you meme harder, you'll beat that deck and have a good tournament result in spite of the fact that you'll lose to everyone else. I've explained myself numerous times in numerous places, including (especially?) on this forum.



    Yes. Good for you and them. You're not contradicting anything I've said about how Chalice is too good or about how changing the rules because reasons has crapped on decks that don't play the cards you mentioned.

    4x Chalice
    4x Mox Diamond
    4x Saprazzan Skerry
    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    Xx Island

    4x Sphinx of Foresight
    4x TNN
    4x Thought-Knot Seer
    4x Force of Will
    4x Force of Negation
    4x Cloud of Faeries
    4x Daze
    4x Impulse. Because people said it's good.
    Xx Jace, or something.

    There's your start.
    Thanks, your incredibly condescending post is noted and immediately ignored because, come on, man. No one argued for Impulse, there are better choices. Several, in fact. Cloud of Faeries? 2001 is calling and they want their oldass tech back. You are, I swear, a walking, talking fallacy of deck theory. Maybe Diamond, except that with forces (force of will - no one is playing 4 FoN, another condescension) that's not really a need of the deck. 4 true-name? How do you expect anyone to take you serious? Like ever? Go back to the Oops all spells thread where your "logic" can actually hold up. I asked for reasoning and you gave me a response dripping with sarcasm. Fucking weak, dude.


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  8. #208

    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    Now I want someone to update Invincible Counter-Troll with Chalices.

  9. #209

    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    Now that we have a full spoiler, are any of the lessons good enough to be interesting, or are there any particularly compelling learn/lesson pairings?

    Looking through the spoiler it seems like there's a good number of cards with potential.

    Clever Lumimancer - combos with Chain of Smog
    Devastating Mastery - Sweeps the board pretty hard for 2WW, and even harder for 2WWWW
    Eager First Year - A bad Clever Lumimancer/Leonin Lightscribe, but it still combos with Chain of Smog.
    Leonin Lightscribe - More smog
    Mavinda, Students' Advovate - The ability is stupid powerful in principle, and the cost is pretty low, but I don't think there's an existing legacy deck for it.
    Show of confidence - Storm-type effects are potent
    Archmage Emeritus - Combos with Chain of Smog
    Plumb the Forbidden - Storm-like draw effect.
    Sedgemoor Witch - Combos with Chain of Smog
    Conspiracy Theorist - Lots of obvious value potential.
    Storm-Kiln Artist - combos with chain of smog
    Fracture - 2cc utility removal
    Quandrix Apprentice - Potential for value and deck stacking with Chain of Smog
    Rip Apart - 2cc utility removal
    Witherbloom Apprentice - Combos with Chain of Smog
    The Biblioplex - Value land that enters untapped
    Hall of Oracles - Enters untapped and helps with tempo/reach on the back end.

  10. #210

    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    I think a dedicated magecraft build is really just a reskin of Modern Prowess, and the best dedicated build is probably going to be WR featuring Lava Dart and no Chain of Smog (because Bolts/Mutagenic Growth are better).

  11. #211

    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    Thanks, your incredibly condescending post is noted and immediately ignored because, come on, man. No one argued for Impulse, there are better choices. Several, in fact. Cloud of Faeries?
    Chunderbucket has made this argument before using impulse.
    It's petty forums drama.

  12. #212

    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    I think a dedicated magecraft build is really just a reskin of Modern Prowess, and the best dedicated build is probably going to be WR featuring Lava Dart and no Chain of Smog (because Bolts/Mutagenic Growth are better).
    The Magecraft cards go nuts with storm cards.
    E:
    T1 super prowess,
    T2 manamorphosr, mutagenic growth, gutshot, grapeshot is 2+(1+2)+(2+2)+3(2+1) 18 damage. Find yourself a bolt and gg.

  13. #213
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    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    The Magecraft cards go nuts with storm cards.
    E:
    T1 super prowess,
    T2 manamorphosr, mutagenic growth, gutshot, grapeshot is 2+(1+2)+(2+2)+3(2+1) 18 damage. Find yourself a bolt and gg.
    Until opponent plays a 1cmc removal and you're left with cards that are fairly underpowered by themselves.

  14. #214

    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Until opponent plays a 1cmc removal and you're left with cards that are fairly underpowered by themselves.
    Did you just let me get to 20 by allowing me to cast a counter?

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    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Did you just let me get to 20 by allowing me to cast a counter?
    When people makes decks like these they forget how magic really works when you have to work for an advantage; particularly when you have to push through that advantage. Most players in legacy have been slinging 1-card combo creatures (usually with immediate upside on top of it) for so long that they don't instinctively know how sequences like these end.

    Please explain why this magecraft stuff is going to ensure it's relevance [outside of the goldfishing tank] and win more than Infect/Depths/Dreadstill/SnT/Reanimator/Painter, or any other deck generally investing >1 card per dude through summoning sickness. What is your protection/interaction suite, and how are you casting it on-demand...or is this one of those "look at my token generator YP and this Stifle I can't fire off to make a token" types of deckbuilding theory?

  16. #216

    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Chunderbucket has made this argument before using impulse.
    It's petty forums drama.
    lol what? It's pretty well known that blue players in Vintage, instead of making the obvious rational decision (switching to the obvious best deck, Shops) stuck with their blue stew and cantrip cartel + pyroblasts, which sucks against Shop, but is good against other irrational blue players who made up a majority of the field. So instead of the meta flowing (everyone switches to shop, then people switch to a deck that's good against shops, then people switch to a blue deck that's good against that deck, and so on), people just kept whining while Shops players kept picking up trophies.

    The only difference in Legacy is that blue decks don't lose against Chalice, especially not now that they have access to 12 pieces of countermagic, they just get blown up from time to time. So it's not even a tragic case of bad equilibrium due to misaligned incentives but just capricious tantruming.

  17. #217
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    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    The Magecraft cards go nuts with storm cards.
    E:
    T1 super prowess,
    T2 manamorphosr, mutagenic growth, gutshot, grapeshot is 2+(1+2)+(2+2)+3(2+1) 18 damage. Find yourself a bolt and gg.
    Or you can just run Berserk/Assault Strobe to make things easier. Invigorate also works as a free boost.

    Between the two cheap white Magecraft card and the new Not-Dryad in green, G/W/x has some legs regarding the Infect-style combos, although that might not be the best idea without countermagic. If you splash blue for Flusterstorm, it can also get silly really fast. Berserk (or Probe) + any free spell to trigger Magecraft + Flusterstorm is already 20 trampling damage with Lumimancer as early as T2. You can even Daze your doubler and then counter the Daze with your Flusterstorm copies. Rules question: You can use the Flusterstorm copies to delete the original Flusterstorm that targeted one of your spells, right?

    Outside of Chain of Smog shenanigans, the UG Apprentice is probably the best in a vacuum. The sheer amount of CA it can generate (especially with library manipulation like Brainstorm or, if you want to be fancy, Scroll Rack) is downright silly. Especially in a deck with Loam and Raven's Crime, it might be able to wreck havoc - and it's still compatible with the BG one as those two shells aren't mutually exclusive. I still think that the BUG shell that runs both with GSZ and Uro as back-up plan to play grindy midrange games might turn out to be the best compared to aggressive one-trick ponies.

  18. #218
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    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    Fluster makes a trigger that doesn't target. When trigger resolves OG Fluster is a valid target.

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    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    Thanks, your incredibly condescending post is noted and immediately ignored because, come on, man. No one argued for Impulse, there are better choices. Several, in fact. Cloud of Faeries? 2001 is calling and they want their oldass tech back.
    First of all, Impulse has, indeed, been suggested over Ponder/Preordain.

    Secondly, Cloud of Faeries accelerates mana.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Quick question, are you also still waiting for the great pumpkin it did you finally pick it in once December hit?
    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.

  20. #220
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    Re: Strixhaven (Back to School[s of Magic] this April)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Fluster makes a trigger that doesn't target. When trigger resolves OG Fluster is a valid target.
    That's what I've thought.

    I wonder how feasible an Infect-style mentioned above would be with 4x Chain of Smog included for random blowouts. It would probably be 4-colored, but between Manamorphose and Lotus Petal (which you should run anyway for accel and mana fixing) in combination with fetchlands should be enough black for Chain and Witherbloom Apprentice. WU would also give access to T3feri which is probably the strongest protection card you can have before you go off. Deck space would probably be an issue, though.

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