Page 7 of 28 FirstFirst ... 3456789101117 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 555

Thread: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

  1. #121
    Member
    Barook's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2007
    Location

    Germany, Germering, Munich
    Posts

    7,491

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews



    Sounds like a beating against Shop decks in Vintage.

    New G/W Sword:



    Seems pretty sweet in a deck that can abuse ETB effects.

  2. #122
    The green Ancestral
    ESG's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2010
    Location

    Seattle, WA
    Posts

    1,308

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post


    Sounds like a beating against Shop decks in Vintage.
    Looks like it hits all pitch spells and all zero CMC spells, so this might be preferred over Defense Grid in Legacy in some matchups. Also stops things cast with Omniscience.

  3. #123

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    Looks like it hits all pitch spells and all zero CMC spells, so this might be preferred over Defense Grid in Legacy in some matchups. Also stops things cast with Omniscience.
    Early game grid is better. Late game mirror is better. So it depends on what matchups you are boarding for.

  4. #124
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    2,477

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Song of Freyalise + Solemnity + Void Mirror is what we call a combo.
    It's like Karn wish Lattice, only you have to work a lot harder. This card seems like it's mostly for Tomb to counter FoW.

  5. #125

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittplayer View Post
    STP kills Griselbrand for 1 mana, how much does this one take to do that? 4 mana of different colors to kill a Jace TMS? In a format with Abrupt Decay, Red Elemental Blast, Vindicate, whatever, and you seriously think this is playable. Ah spoiler season. Show me what deck wants this and what cards get cut. What card does U/W Miracles cut for this? What card does Strawberry shortcake cut? Death and taxes? Maybe they all start playing 4 colors because of how powerful this card is? Right. I will look forward when this card disappears and everyone acts like they always knew it was garbage. Council's Judgement is better then this 10 out of 10 times. Want to hit a vial? Decay cant be countered. Kill a Jace? REB is 1 mana. It's on you to prove why this card is better or at least on par with those. Your whole argument is, this kills stuff, these other things kill stuff, so this is great! The fact you listed a bunch of cards that " kill stuff" and dont see why those cards are different and why this card is subpar to other options is silly.
    Me: "card is good, it compares favourably to playable cards ABCD"
    You: "you idiot, it compares unfavourably to playable cards WXYZ"

    STP kills Griselbrand for 1 mana, how much does this one take to do that?
    Did I say this card was a replacement for Swords to Plowshares? Was STP on the list of cards I thought were comparable?

    4 mana of different colors to kill a Jace TMS? In a format with Abrupt Decay, Red Elemental Blast, Vindicate, whatever, and you seriously think this is playable.
    A) Decay can't even kill jace at all
    B) Did I say this card was a replacement for Pyroblast? Was Pyroblast on the list of cards I thought were comparable?
    C) Yes I legitimately believe this card is better than vindicate in decks playing 3 colours most of the time

    What card does U/W Miracles cut for this? What card does Strawberry shortcake cut? Death and taxes?
    Oh I'm sorry I forgot that for this card to be considered good it has to be a staple in literally every single decklist that can produce white mana, silly me

    Council's Judgement is better then this 10 out of 10 times.
    10 out of 10 times you are exiling a permanent that costs more than 3?
    Not to mention that the Uro decks have a much easier time making UWG than 1WW

    Want to hit a vial? Decay cant be countered. Kill a Jace? REB is 1 mana. It's on you to prove why this card is better or at least on par with those.
    Want to kill A? Use card B
    Want to kill X? Use card Y! It's only 1 mana
    Let's totally ignore the fact that this new card potentially kills both A and X whereas B and Y are stuck in their respective lane. Why does costing 1 mana only matter when it's REB killing jace but not when it's Prismatic Ending killing vial

    Your whole argument is, this kills stuff, these other things kill stuff, so this is great! The fact you listed a bunch of cards that " kill stuff" and dont see why those cards are different and why this card is subpar to other options is silly.
    You haven't made any effort to refute that at all
    You have only made clear arguments for why the card is better than Swords and Pyro, two cards which I didn't compare it to, and "Abrupt Decay can't be countered when it kills Vial", in which case, uh, fine?

    In a format with Abrupt Decay, Red Elemental Blast, Vindicate, whatever, and you seriously think this is playable.
    This is literally the exact same shit you're attempting to drag me for

    Your whole argument is, this kills stuff, but these other cards that already exist also kill stuff, so this sucks. The fact you listed a bunch of cards that " kill stuff" and dont see why those cards are different and why this card is superior to other options is silly.

  6. #126

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Me: "card is good, it compares favourably to playable cards ABCD"
    You: "you idiot, it compares unfavourably to playable cards WXYZ"


    Did I say this card was a replacement for Swords to Plowshares? Was STP on the list of cards I thought were comparable?


    A) Decay can't even kill jace at all
    B) Did I say this card was a replacement for Pyroblast? Was Pyroblast on the list of cards I thought were comparable?
    C) Yes I legitimately believe this card is better than vindicate in decks playing 3 colours most of the time


    Oh I'm sorry I forgot that for this card to be considered good it has to be a staple in literally every single decklist that can produce white mana, silly me


    10 out of 10 times you are exiling a permanent that costs more than 3?
    Not to mention that the Uro decks have a much easier time making UWG than 1WW


    Want to kill A? Use card B
    Want to kill X? Use card Y! It's only 1 mana
    Let's totally ignore the fact that this new card potentially kills both A and X whereas B and Y are stuck in their respective lane. Why does costing 1 mana only matter when it's REB killing jace but not when it's Prismatic Ending killing vial



    You haven't made any effort to refute that at all
    You have only made clear arguments for why the card is better than Swords and Pyro, two cards which I didn't compare it to, and "Abrupt Decay can't be countered when it kills Vial", in which case, uh, fine?


    This is literally the exact same shit you're attempting to drag me for

    Your whole argument is, this kills stuff, but these other cards that already exist also kill stuff, so this sucks. The fact you listed a bunch of cards that " kill stuff" and dont see why those cards are different and why this card is superior to other options is silly.
    What cards you keep in your sb are based on your deck and your meta. Some decks run decay. Some decks run pithing needle. Again you are just talking nonsense. I asked you what decks A. want the card. B. what cards get cut to put that card in the deck. C. what exciting new decks will this form. Cause I am saying A. None. B. None. C. None. Still waiting while you say just silly things. I don't need to go through every card commonly played in legacy and explain to you why they are run as you are suggesting. The metagame speaks for itself. It is on you to prove, with "any??" points why this new card is an auto-include for some decks, as you actually have said. You said this card will see legacy play. Where? In what decks? Still waiting for.. an actual argument for the card...

  7. #127
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    2,477

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Vindicate can't kill Klothys. This SB slot would be Purge which is now this XW spell. It is unlikely a deck needs Vindicate to kill Karakas or Field, but has cards to kill Klothys. This is the SB area it competes against.

    On maindeck, the list of cards named by @kombatkiwi are not profitably played on top of Plow. There is a limit to how many cards like Plow you can maindeck and still compete.

  8. #128

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    In any 3C+ deck it potentially does the following roles
    - Disenchant from the SB
    - Additional cheap removal from the SB a la Path to Exile or whatever
    - SB answer to whatever weird permanent from the SB (like Fox says e.g. Klothys, but also any 3 mana PW, Ensnaring Bridge, etc)
    - Like Rip Apart / Fracture etc it has the upside of being super flexible (e.g. you can board it in vs Delver with the plan of killing Klothys or Sylvan Library with it, but unlike e.g. Purge it also just kills their Delver for 1 mana or their Goyf for 2 mana or whatever it needs to do in the given situation, in the control mirror it's an on-curve answer to Carpet and Library and Uro etc etc)

    E.g. Stefano 4C miracles in manatraders top8 recently played 2 Rip Apart in the SB, I think this is an upgrade to that

    Also in any 3C+ deck that was previously maindecking a CJ or Vindicate type of card (or wants to but double white too prohibitive) I think it's fairly likely that this just outright replaces those

    "What exciting new decks will this form" it's a modal removal spell? First you said "won't see any play in legacy", but now it's apparently not good enough unless it makes 5 colour sunburst a viable deck, you are shifting the goalposts into the stratosphere

  9. #129
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    2,477

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    @kombatkiwi please read posts before making comments like that. From my same post:
    There are few legacy decks trying to pile up Path on top of Plow maindeck. There are also fewer wrath effects being played to reset the board to 1-for-1 relevance.

    Path is another card that can be replaced in a SB with this card, unless you're looking exactly for anti-Lage only.
    Edit: When you talk about maindecks, this XW spell turns into -1 anti-TNN slot...in a list that probably also has not enough wrath effects. EE has better coverage than this new card in MD. 10 times out of 10 choosing EE for a maindeck slot.

  10. #130

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Comments like what? I have no idea what you're even trying to say (Edit: when you edit your posts multiple times after making them it's even more difficult to follow)

    If you're just making the argument that you don't think 1-3 mana sorcery "exile target permanent" is a legacy maindeck playable card then I don't disagree super strongly (I do disagree a little bit) but even then I think it's a very strong SB option, which does clear the bar for "good" or "sees play in legacy", in my opinion

  11. #131
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    2,477

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    I've been very clear and consistent on this point, this is an anti-Klothys card. Anti-Klothys cards live in SBs. If you are interested in this card, it should just be EE...unless the only purpose is to kill Klothys with that slot.

    Celestial Purge is no longer a playable legacy sideboard card.

  12. #132

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    In any 3C+ deck it potentially does the following roles
    - Disenchant from the SB
    - Additional cheap removal from the SB a la Path to Exile or whatever
    - SB answer to whatever weird permanent from the SB (like Fox says e.g. Klothys, but also any 3 mana PW, Ensnaring Bridge, etc)
    - Like Rip Apart / Fracture etc it has the upside of being super flexible (e.g. you can board it in vs Delver with the plan of killing Klothys or Sylvan Library with it, but unlike e.g. Purge it also just kills their Delver for 1 mana or their Goyf for 2 mana or whatever it needs to do in the given situation, in the control mirror it's an on-curve answer to Carpet and Library and Uro etc etc)

    E.g. Stefano 4C miracles in manatraders top8 recently played 2 Rip Apart in the SB, I think this is an upgrade to that

    Also in any 3C+ deck that was previously maindecking a CJ or Vindicate type of card (or wants to but double white too prohibitive) I think it's fairly likely that this just outright replaces those

    "What exciting new decks will this form" it's a modal removal spell? First you said "won't see any play in legacy", but now it's apparently not good enough unless it makes 5 colour sunburst a viable deck, you are shifting the goalposts into the stratosphere
    Since you were not really stating any argument, I tried to help you form one. To sum up, I asked what decks want the card, and if your argument was it forms a new deck or will slot into a new deck what deck that would be. But again you just try to argue non-points. Saying things like " additional cheap removal ", yeah, so is Terror.. BUT WHY WOULD A DECK PICK THIS CARD OVER ANOTHER? You did say, it's flexible, which I guess is a point. But the deck restrictions I feel outway the flexibility. And any deck running Wxx I think prefers CJ over this. In most builds, if you want to hit delver or vial or library or 3 mana walker or bridge, your go-to is Abrupt Decay since it has a cheap cost and can not be countered. I don't see this replacing that. If you want a catch-all kind of card, CJ is the card to go to for a deck that plays white. I don't see any cases being made 1. why this card will see play or 2. what decks want this and what card this replaces. So I am done with this conversation.

  13. #133

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    - A lot of the Wxx control decks right now are Uro based, and when your deck is built around a card that costs UUGG you really don't want to play more than 1 copy of basic plains. So for a notable subset of "decks that would play CJ" this card is legitimately easier to cast than CJ

    - It has a worse effect than CJ vs permanents that cost more than 3 or vs hexproof/tnn. Does the fact that this new card costs only 1-2 mana if it exiles a cheap permanent make up for that? I think likely yes

    - 'Decay is probably better because it always costs 2 even against 3 mana permanents and it can't be countered.' Somewhat fair, but how many WXX decks are also GB decks? There aren't UWGB control decks playing decay anymore because without astrolabe the mana doesn't really work. Even if Abzan/Junk decks would rather play decay 100% of the time the card still seems like a good option for Bant/Jeskai/Esper, such that the "no play in legacy" assertion seems wrong to me

  14. #134
    Member
    Barook's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2007
    Location

    Germany, Germering, Munich
    Posts

    7,491

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    No discussion about the new G/W sword? It's a one-card combo with SFM and slots well into D&T's 75 (maybe even better in the Yorion builds due to the extra ramp and amount of ETB targets?). Protection from StP and Uros/Coatls isn't too shabby, either.

    It can also give pseudo-vigilance to one of your attackers by blinking it. Worst case scenario would be reequipping the attacker, but at worst, it would be an extra cost of due to the extra land you get.

  15. #135

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    No discussion about the new G/W sword? It's a one-card combo with SFM and slots well into D&T's 75 (maybe even better in the Yorion builds due to the extra ramp and amount of ETB targets?). Protection from StP and Uros/Coatls isn't too shabby, either.

    It can also give pseudo-vigilance to one of your attackers by blinking it. Worst case scenario would be reequipping the attacker, but at worst, it would be an extra cost of due to the extra land you get.
    tbh disequipping itself seems quite bad, the protections are ok i guess, but sofi still is much better
    "You either die a Onesto-Player, or live long enough to see yourself become a Dredger"

  16. #136

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Song of Freyalise + Solemnity + Void Mirror is what we call a combo.
    It's like Karn wish Lattice, only you have to work a lot harder. This card seems like it's mostly for Tomb to counter FoW.
    What does this combo do?

  17. #137
    Member
    Barook's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2007
    Location

    Germany, Germering, Munich
    Posts

    7,491

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctalor View Post
    tbh disequipping itself seems quite bad, the protections are ok i guess, but sofi still is much better
    It's situational. Of course it's bad if your opponent plays removal in response or if it clocks your mana at the start.

    SoFI is the gold standard of swords, that goes without saying. But I still think that this one has potential, as it has a chance to give +2 CA without having to rely on your opponent (like Sword of Sinew and Steel or Sword of Feast and Famine), with +1 CA being guaranteed. Protections aside, that alone makes it already alot less situational than the other swords (bar SoFI).

  18. #138

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    What does this combo do?
    I think they misremembered the name of Ritual of Subdual (instead of Song of Freyalise)

  19. #139

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    No discussion about the new G/W sword? It's a one-card combo with SFM and slots well into D&T's 75 (maybe even better in the Yorion builds due to the extra ramp and amount of ETB targets?). Protection from StP and Uros/Coatls isn't too shabby, either.

    It can also give pseudo-vigilance to one of your attackers by blinking it. Worst case scenario would be reequipping the attacker, but at worst, it would be an extra cost of due to the extra land you get.
    Fun for commander, but I don't think I'm going to pick it up in constructed. Not re-attaching itself is a big drawback.

  20. #140
    Member
    Barook's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2007
    Location

    Germany, Germering, Munich
    Posts

    7,491

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Not re-attaching itself is a big drawback.
    The blinking is optional, though.

    For what it's worth, the sword can also provide Landfall triggers (e.g. for Tireless Tracker) and grab basics even under Blood Moon.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)