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Thread: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

  1. #81

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I like Unmarked Grave for the Depths Reanimator hybrid. One of the key threats, for a while, was Grave Titan, which isn't legendary. It isn't an efficient way to tutor our Vampire Hexmage, but that is an option. I like Grief for the same deck, it seems like a pretty good value card. If you have an unnecessary Dark Ritual in hand you can either power it out, or if you need to make multiple plays you can pitch the DR/redundant black card to alternative cast it. I think it will go well in a deck that has a healthy amount of redundancy that can spare a card to enable it's 'free' clause.

    Manaless Dredge comes to mind as well for Grief, it ticks off all the boxes for being playable in that deck: black creature for Ichorid, free hand disruption like Cabal Therapy, and you really don't care about losing a card when your real hand is your stuffed graveyard. I don't think it makes the deck jump a tier or anything like that, but I do think it's a pretty clean and powerful option for that deck. It might replace Chancellor of the Annex in the decks that play it. While it doesn't do anything for your g2-3, the deck's biggest weakness, it might be a piece of the puzzle.
    Sideboard card at best in dredge

  2. #82

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Yeah, I think that Grief is another of the many win-more cards that can be played in Manaless Dredge. As hand disruption, it is worse than Unmask since it cannot target yourself. It is nice if you have a Bridge in the graveyard, but if you already have a Bridge, your engine is going. Unmask can help get the engine started, while Grief cannot, and getting to dredging is the most important thing. As FourDogs said, it may be a sideboard card over Unmask, but I don't think it is worth a maindeck slot.

  3. #83

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    The Suspend Tutor is absurd in the Collected Conjuring decks. If there's another full cycle of those, plus another cycle of pitch cards, that's probably enough to push that thing to real Legacy deck status, it's already showing in Modern. Wish I could have gotten that one figured out back when I messing with it after it first came out. I knew the potential, I just couldn't get the list/play orders right.

  4. #84

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Not getting griselbrand is kind of a flop right


    1 mana 1/2 islandwalk is also a much worse card than Wastes


    Sorry which fair decks are playing unmask?
    In a vacuum I think this is a kind of good/cool design, obviously it's a powerful card
    I'm a little bit afraid that the ephemerate interaction pushes it over the edge, especially in modern (and I'm afraid of what the other ones in the cycle do for the same reason)


    The two cards aren't really directly comparable I don't think
    There are lots of decks that aren't interested in the creature aspect, won't want to pay 2bb for it and also don't value the 0 mana worth 2-for-1ing yourself
    Of course this is still a statement you can make (just like "Griselbrand is better than Thoughtseize" or whatever)
    Unmarked tomb: maybe entomb 5-6 in worldgorger. Pretty bad

    Magus of the port: Not taking up your land drop means it is effectively one less mana to activate. Also merfolk is critically low on good 1 drops which are needed for your lords to be decent. This will be good in a u/w vial or merfolk deck, but those decks might still be bad for other reasons.

    Grief is absurd in gaak. Its an unmask that gives you a 4/3 (with vengevine) or a 2/2 (with BFB)

    In fair decks, basically everything you said applies to force of will or negation though. Unmask was not playable because both the alt cast and the hard cast were worse than force of will. Due to the lack of tempo gain, the alt cast is worse than force of will. But the hard cast is much better than force of will. Its a 1 for 2 which can also be a 2 for 1. This is a force effect that pox wants even without synergies like reanimate/ephermeate/lily last hope.

  5. #85

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa View Post
    No Legacy playable cards so far. Everything revealed is either too weak or too conditional.
    Grief will make bug gaak the best graveyard deck and possible tier 1.

    Triggers bridge for free

    Triggers vengevine for free

    Doesnt hurt yourself like thoughtseize (very relevant vs ur)

    Flood insurance

    Quite good vs Omnitell which is a horrible mu.

    Pushes through crab or supplier on t1 (relevant vs control)

    Free hand information, refunding the card disadvantage in conjunction with cabal therapy.

    Makes the deck a bit better vs blood moon and chalice.

    In dredge or reanimate it isnt very good as mentioned above. The last three points were true of unmask, but the first ones make it go from worse than thoughtseize to much better.

  6. #86
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    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    I think it's very short-sighted to say that Grief is worse than Unmask in reanimator because you can't target yourself. It ignores that Grief itself is a very easy and profitable reanimation target. No it's not Griselbrand but turn 1 Grief, Reanimate Grief is a really powerful play that's very low investment. You've spent two cards to take your opponent's two best cards and have an evasive 3/2 body; it's basically an upgrade on Turn 1 Delver, turn 2 Hymn, which is a very strong opening.
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  7. #87

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Could also be played with stuff like village rites. Evoke is easy to abuse with lots of stuff.

    Swamp, Grief, Rite seem like a really good turn 1 play.
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

  8. #88

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu View Post
    Could also be played with stuff like village rites. Evoke is easy to abuse with lots of stuff.

    Swamp, Grief, Rite seem like a really good turn 1 play.
    Just...just cast thoughtseize....

  9. #89

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Also, Grief and Ephemerate is juicy, probably not legacy playable but damn, modern will get a lot more spicy.

  10. #90

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    I think it's very short-sighted to say that Grief is worse than Unmask in reanimator because you can't target yourself. It ignores that Grief itself is a very easy and profitable reanimation target. No it's not Griselbrand but turn 1 Grief, Reanimate Grief is a really powerful play that's very low investment. You've spent two cards to take your opponent's two best cards and have an evasive 3/2 body; it's basically an upgrade on Turn 1 Delver, turn 2 Hymn, which is a very strong opening.
    I think this might be strong, but you mathd wrong. Its 3 cards to take your opponents best 2 cards and a 3/3 body. Ie 2x thoughtseize plus delver. Which is a very effecient 3 for 3 for something Like deaths shadow. but not card advantage.

  11. #91

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Miagi View Post
    Also, Grief and Ephemerate is juicy, probably not legacy playable but damn, modern will get a lot more spicy.
    So you get 3 thoughtseize and a body for just one mana. Yeah that IS juicy.
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

  12. #92
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    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Miagi View Post
    Also, Grief and Ephemerate is juicy, probably not legacy playable but damn, modern will get a lot more spicy.
    How is tripple Thoughtseize with zero life loss and getting a 3/2 Menace beater NOT juicy? I could see it played in some kind of ETB deck, but question is how you get enough black cards to make it work.

  13. #93
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    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    How is tripple Thoughtseize with zero life loss and getting a 3/2 Menace beater NOT juicy? I could see it played in some kind of ETB deck, but question is how you get enough black cards to make it work.
    Maybe a weird Shadow/Delver Esper deck?

    4 Delver
    4 Grief
    4 Death's Shadow
    1 Gurmag Angler

    4 STP
    4 FOW
    4 Daze
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Ponder
    3 Ephermate
    2 Fatal Push
    2 Snuff Out

    17 Lands

    Edit - eh - ephermate in this is sort of useless other than the grief "combo"
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
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  14. #94

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Sanppys and Strix so you can "cycle" ephermate.

    Also if I unserstand the Grief combo correctly it is somewhat removal proof. You can stack it that unmask resolves first, clearing the hand from removal. He could respond with a bolt but then you ephermate anyway!
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

  15. #95

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Looking at a recent Esper Yorion list on MtGTop8, there are a number of potentially useful creatures to use Ephemerate with:

    28 CREATURES
    4 Baleful Strix
    1 Barrin, Tolarian Archmage
    4 Charming Prince
    1 Fblthp, the Lost
    2 Gilded Drake
    1 Hullbreacher
    4 Meddling Mage
    1 Palace Jailer
    1 Peacekeeper
    1 Plague Engineer
    4 Recruiter of the Guard
    1 Skyclave Apparition
    1 Soulherder
    1 Tidehollow Sculler
    1 Venser, Shaper Savant

    Now, that deck is mostly UW, but I figure that some Esper list with more B, or a simple WB list with Grief could be made, running things like Village Rites and Ephemerate with Tidehollow Sculler and Grief, etc.

  16. #96

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu View Post
    Sanppys and Strix so you can "cycle" ephermate.

    Also if I unserstand the Grief combo correctly it is somewhat removal proof. You can stack it that unmask resolves first, clearing the hand from removal. He could respond with a bolt but then you ephermate anyway!
    That is correct, one isn't enough

  17. #97
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    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Any instant speed sacrifice effect should also be pretty good with it, e.g. Grief + Phyrexian Tower to ramp early.

    Village Rites would also go well with Sedgemoor Witch, or Cabal Therapy, for the matter. Free info to set up a 100% hit T1 Cabal Therapy is very strong, as Gitaxian Probe has shown. Grief can pitch a Chain of Smog you don't have immediate use for. Grief can also provide a body for Therapy if you play it normally later on.

    Both Reanimate (get Grief back or steal their fatty) and Cabal Therapy (100% hit) enable very powerful T1 plays with Grief while not being completely useless by themselves. Definitely something to watch out for. I expect this card package to show up in alot of black decks that can run 1 cmc cards.

  18. #98

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoshim View Post
    Yeah, I think that Grief is another of the many win-more cards that can be played in Manaless Dredge. As hand disruption, it is worse than Unmask since it cannot target yourself. It is nice if you have a Bridge in the graveyard, but if you already have a Bridge, your engine is going. Unmask can help get the engine started, while Grief cannot, and getting to dredging is the most important thing. As FourDogs said, it may be a sideboard card over Unmask, but I don't think it is worth a maindeck slot.
    Do you even play Manaless Dredge? From this post, it doesn't seem so. If you've actually played and experienced the deck, you'd know that the "engine" doesn't go online until turn 3 with non-Street Wraith hands because of the timing of triggers. Against fast combo, Grief can provide bodies on turn 2, which is incredibly rare for this deck other than Narcomoebas, with Bridges, and possibly a Dread Return win right there, or slow down their combo to get to turn 3. It's not just win-more in this case.

    Unmasking yourself to start the engine is so narrow that it's not even worth mentioning, in my opinion. So, it's not something to debate between Unmask and Grief. You're playing the wrong deck or playing the deck wrong if you are consistently using Unmask like this.

    I'm not saying it should be in the 60, but the points you've brought up aren't helpful and telegraph inexperience.

  19. #99

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    The fact that Grief is a discard spell, that is relevant late game.... is actually better then people are giving it credit for. Early game seize late game evasive beater? That's a pretty good card.

  20. #100

    Re: Modern Horizons 2 Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by zzap View Post
    I'm not saying it should be in the 60, but the points you've brought up aren't helpful and telegraph inexperience.
    Yeah, I have come around on my opinion since I wrote that. I have been doing more regular dredge recently, so it has been a while since I have played Manaless. I think Grief is better than Unmask in Manaless, but I still don't know as it should be run main deck.

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