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Thread: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

  1. #21

    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    Is this like a multiple choice saga?

    “Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

  2. #22

    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu View Post
    Is this like a multiple choice saga?

    yes, exactly, you can only go forwards, and it ticks every time you "enter the dungeon", but not any other time.

  3. #23

    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews



    I'm bad at images. Here is a green planeswalker.

  4. #24
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    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Hilarious SB card out of Storm vs some type of hate. "Equip to Xantid Swarm, attack for lethal"

    Bruenor can equip Kaldra Compleat for 0 mana and attack for 12 trample haste indestructible superdeathtouch

    With +1 "Venture into the Dungeon" on a 4-mana planeswalker, it's possible Dungeons may see Legacy play since they basically just mean the +1 ability is modal with many options. If the Dungeon abilities end up being good enough, it may be worth it.

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    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    With +1 "Venture into the Dungeon" on a 4-mana planeswalker, it's possible Dungeons may see Legacy play since they basically just mean the +1 ability is modal with many options. If the Dungeon abilities end up being good enough, it may be worth it.
    I think the Dungeons are worse than that because you can't control the order of the abilities aligns with what you need.

  6. #26
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    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    Jesus F. Christ, dungeons look awful.

    It would be really, really great if they could just take about ten years off from this gimmicky shitgarbage and just flesh out mechanics that actually fit together to form a cohesive game instead of blundering around in the weeds and giving everybody else ticks up the ass.
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    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    Depends on what the other Dungeons do. The one above is weak but already gives branching options, where one path is better if you need to defend against opposing creatures and the other is better if you want to be proactive.

    +1: Scry 1 is not much worse than what a lot of planeswalkers have as their + ability.

    Chunderbucket Pile would probably love that card, even just for the -2: OUAT and +1: marginal value with potential draw fixing. Then again, Chunderbucket Pile is not a real deck.

  8. #28
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    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    The other two:


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    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Depends on what the other Dungeons do. The one above is weak but already gives branching options, where one path is better if you need to defend against opposing creatures and the other is better if you want to be proactive.

    +1: Scry 1 is not much worse than what a lot of planeswalkers have as their + ability.

    Chunderbucket Pile would probably love that card, even just for the -2: OUAT and +1: marginal value with potential draw fixing. Then again, Chunderbucket Pile is not a real deck.
    What bothers me about MtG design in general over the past 15-ish years is the increasing mechanical bloat and the inelegance of how that manifests itself in the form of cards with, idk, nine lines of text and three Rube Goldberg abilities plus "dies to Shock." Also, that rather than revisiting most of these mechanics, the designers either are content to let ones with potential sink beneath the waves (remember Radiance? Nobody else does, either) or to "fix" them rather than developing them, leaving all kinds of vestigial nonsense scattered throughout the game's corpus (Wither, Persist, "Champion an Evil Eye of Orms-by-Gore," "When _____ deals damage, gain that much life [independent of Lifelink, of course!]," etc.).

    This dungeon shit feels like an exemplar and paragon of that design philosophy. "Hey, it's a dungeon! You know, like Dungeons & Dragons? Our OTHER most popular IP? Yeah! You like to read EVERY POSSIBLE STAT BLOCK WE CAN CHUNDER AT YOU? Now, you can do that on your Maygick cards! Just wait until you see how many chase rares are entirely dependent on this gimmick and won't ever get played again after 2023!"

    None of my ire is directed at you, FTW. Just feeling a bit irascible lately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And now they're putting card names on the effects different cards have, which IN NO WAY RESEMBLE THE EFFECTS THE ORIGINAL CARDS HAD.

    This is worse than Invocation Blood Moon's having a SUN ON IT.

    FUCK.
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    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    Would anyone want a one mana 1/1 that entered the dungeon? I don’t think any of the first levels are that good - not are the second levels. Maybe a 1/1 for 1 that taps and enters the dungeon?
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    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu View Post
    Is this like a multiple choice saga?



    Not using sideboard slots seems potentially dangerous and might be just really stupid design.



    Might be cool in some white Stompy decks or with Vial + Karakas. Blink decks could also get alot of value out of it. Lost Mine seems to best one with it.

    With ramp, a potential play could be to jam it on T1 for the guaranteed scry to smooth out your next draw.Then you could create a Treasure token on the next turn and play a 4- or even a 5-drop, depending on how many permanent mana sources you have.

  12. #32

    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    What sort of shenanigans can be done with the 5th level of the Mad Mage dungeon? (Runestone Caverns: Exile the top two cards of your library. You may play them.) With an instant speed Venture into the Dungeon effect and Brainstorm, you can play any two cards at instant speed. Are there any sorts of silly things to do? It is a ridiculous setup to prepare, but there aren't a lot of effects that allow for instant speed plays like that.

  13. #33
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    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    I don't think the Dungeons are there to slot into typical deck building/play patterns. I think they are designed to create a new type of MtG experience that tries to mimic D&D (go figure...) If someone is playing with Dungeons they are doing so with the express intent of building decks, and the entire game experience, around the Dungeon. These won't slot into Legacy, or any other format, in my opinion. They are there so people can do something different. It's almost like a new format neatly packaged into a few cards. I kind of dig it. Maybe it gives you the option of playing a D&D type of experience without all of the front-loading of character creation and campaign planning.
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  14. #34

    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoshim View Post
    What sort of shenanigans can be done with the 5th level of the Mad Mage dungeon? (Runestone Caverns: Exile the top two cards of your library. You may play them.) With an instant speed Venture into the Dungeon effect and Brainstorm, you can play any two cards at instant speed. Are there any sorts of silly things to do? It is a ridiculous setup to prepare, but there aren't a lot of effects that allow for instant speed plays like that.
    It depends on what kind of "venture into the dungeon" cards there are. If players have to step through the dungeons one spell or one attack at a time, then it's unlikely to be strong, but if they're printing something that allows for more than two "venture into the dungeon" per card per turn, it looks pretty breakable.

    The current "words out of 10" design philosophy may also lead to cards that do busted stuff and also venture as a side effect.
    Last edited by rufus; 06-25-2021 at 11:45 AM.

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    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    Based on the cards spoiled with the Mythic rarity being a planeswalker with +1 Venture and the Rare doing Venture on Enter and Attack, I don't think you're going to see better options.
    I'd predict any spells to just be reprints of existing spells with an extra 1 to CMC and Venture tacked onto the butt.

    Best use seems to be the mostly vanilla white 3/3 for 3 since it'll just do random value things.
    Is that good enough? For Legacy I'd say no.

    Just another Standard level gimmick.
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    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Based on the cards spoiled with the Mythic rarity being a planeswalker with +1 Venture and the Rare doing Venture on Enter and Attack, I don't think you're going to see better options.
    I'd predict any spells to just be reprints of existing spells with an extra 1 to CMC and Venture tacked onto the butt.

    Best use seems to be the mostly vanilla white 3/3 for 3 since it'll just do random value things.
    Is that good enough? For Legacy I'd say no.

    Just another Standard level gimmick.
    Agreed.

    At best let's say we get a 2 cmc venture. The best "special" is Mad Wizard's Lair so that will be 7 triggers - too many. The next best is probably Cradle of the Death God with 4 triggers.

    So at best you'll probably get to do something like this:

    1 -
    2 - 2cmc venture trigger (each player loses 1 life)
    3 - Paladin? venture Trigger (each player loses 2 life)
    4 - Attack with Paladin and cast another trigger (each player loses 2 life, get your 4/4 and your paladin makes it a 5/5 now)
    5 - Profit?

    Meh . . .

    I guess - if there are enough cheap ventures which I doubt someone would try to make a deck that can get Mad Wizard's Lair really quick to hard cast Emrakul or something?
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  17. #37

    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    I'm not sure I like them, but the dungeons do, at least, represent interesting design.
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    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    They complicate paper magic by adding yet another layer of physical things to keep track of to maintain the game state.

    One thing I like is that they are like planeswalker ults except your progress towards them accumulates across cards. You don't just lose all your progress because the first one got removed.

    Like all parasitic mechanics, it'll be interesting if the payoffs are good enough and there are enough playable enablers... otherwise the fad will rotate out with Standard.

  19. #39

    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    They complicate paper magic by adding yet another layer of physical things to keep track of to maintain the game state.

    One thing I like is that they are like planeswalker ults except your progress towards them accumulates across cards. You don't just lose all your progress because the first one got removed.

    Like all parasitic mechanics, it'll be interesting if the payoffs are good enough and there are enough playable enablers... otherwise the fad will rotate out with Standard.
    Yeah. I'm not a big fan of them making mechanics that require separate "cards" (and a second object to place on the card) to keep track of what's going on.

    A better Dungeon design would have been something along the lines of a Saga. I would have made Dungeons require conditions to be met by the player to reach the next level in the Dungeon. This would be an actual self-contained card, which didn't require extra tracking and wouldn't be parasitic.

    Here's an example:

    Dungeon of Fire (1)(R)

    (When you complete a level in this Dungeon, add a progress counter. Sacrifice after III.)

    Level I: Cast a creature - Deal 1 damage to any target.
    Level II: Attack with a creature - Exile the top card of your library, you may play it until end of turn.
    Level III: Cast a spell targeting a creature you control - You get an emblem with "Creatures you control get +1/+0 and have haste."

    This keeps in line with the flavor of a Dungeon since the player has to actively progress through it and gets a reward for completing it. It also allows the designer to make a Dungeon be anything from very low cost, easy to complete Dungeon that give low-level bonuses to a total build around Dungeon that is hard to complete with massive bonuses e.g. "You win the game" as the final reward. There would also be way more depth of design because you can play around with the mechanic e.g. make a Dungeon where each level has a negative effect on you leading up to a bigger reward (or incentivizing the player to build around those negative effects).

    They could still create other cards that get bonuses from completed Dungeons if they wanted to create more synergy but then you get back into the parasitic design territory.
    Last edited by Purple Blood; 06-25-2021 at 08:35 PM.

  20. #40

    Re: D&D (Maybe Better Off) Forgotten Realms Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    Yeah. I'm not a big fan of them making mechanics that require separate "cards" (and a second object to place on the card) to keep track of what's going on.
    So tokens?

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