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Thread: Jund Dreadhorde Shadow

  1. #1

    Jund Dreadhorde Shadow

    4 Death's Shadow
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Dreadhorde Arcanist

    4 Abundant Harvest
    4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Fatal Push
    4 Mishra's Bauble
    2 Footfall Crater
    1 Flex Spot (Possibly more removal - Dismember, Decay, Trophy, Seal of Fire, etc, maybe 1 utility traverse target like Ooze or something, or a Become Immense)

    [Not exactly sure on the manabase but 14 Green sources + basic Swamp + minimum 1 bloodcrypt, not sure whether to play basic mountain]
    17 Lands
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Wooded Foothills
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Overgrown Tomb
    1 Stomping Ground
    1 Nurturing Peatland
    1 Forest
    1 Swamp
    1 Mountain
    1 Blood Crypt

    Companion: Lurrus

    - Premise A: Lurrus is good
    - Premise B: Scourge as a 2drop is maybe not ideal, because a lifegain deck is tier 1, and the best 1drop to enable it (Hexdrinker) feels awkward in a format defined by Wrenn/Dart/Ballista
    - Nettles Golgari doesn't solve the problem because you still have 4 Hexdrinker and now your 2drop also has 1 toughness
    - Premise C: I still own 4 DHA after they banned it in legacy but I never bought scourges or hexdrinkers
    - We know from legacy that DHA has the potential to be busted
    - No FoW/Daze in Modern so we need the discard instead to disrupt opp and protect DHA (black)
    - Need cantrips for DHA also
    - A problem is that Goyf is the best secondary threat and cantrips are blue (also in modern they kind of suck) so now in our (ideally) low-land count xerox deck we're trying to make RGUBB but also including basics for path/field etc which seems like a shambles
    - Traverse already exists as a green 'cantrip', and they also just printed a green preordain? Guess we don't need islands then
    - All of Harvest/Traverse/TS/Inq/Push/Bolt/Bauble/Goyf/DHA/Lurrus basically builds itself
    - The deck wants an additional cheap threat to get from traverse (also wants a threat that isn't so reliant on the graveyard probably with Goyf + DHA) and Shadow is just the best one, you don't need it to be playable on turn 1 to curve out smoothly because you have a million other 1 mana plays anyway. Just like normal Lurrus Shadow there's no wraith but you still have the 3C fetch shock manabase and you can flashback TS so self-damage shouldn't be a problem. (Guldukat also played Jund Shadow for a bit without Dismember).
    - A low landcount should be ok as long as there are enough turn 1 green sources because you have 4 harvest and 4 traverse.
    - Footfall crater? Was tried in Traverse lists in the past but has mostly fallen out of favour. 1) Delirium otherwise probably a bit sketch without Wraith 2) The upside of adding haste much greater with 4 DHA 3) Plan A is more grindy than other traverse builds with 4 DHA therefore no TBR. Crater seems fine as modal cantrip / lava axe or as a way to shove your threats over auriok champions / narcomoeabas.

    Anyway the format will probably change a lot with MH2 but when I saw Abundant Harvest I got excited to play DHA again

  2. #2
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    Re: Jund Dreadhorde Shadow

    I like it, and Jund seems to be the best Shadow shell currently in Modern. I think you need a minimum of 2 Dismember though, not only to increase life loss (you aren't playing Street Wraiths) but to just have better chances at getting Arcanist/Shadow/Goyf through in combat. I also think Mutagenic Growth is a serious option for the deck, because you always want something to push damage through and a way to quasi-protect your DA from Bolts. I don't think that's a major concern, but I think in some matchups DA will be critical to fighting the late game.

    Just my opinion, but I would go:

    -1 Inquisition
    -1 Fatal Push
    (open slot)

    +2 Dismember
    +1 Mutagenic Growth

    I agree, Abundant Harvest is very, very good. Harvest and Traverse are so much better than the blue cantrips in modern. I almost suggested Once Upon a Time (womp womp) but I remembered it was banned.

    EDIT: Is Footfalls better than Temur Battle Rage? I know haste is a pretty big deal, but the double strike is basically a combo-kill with Goyf and Shadow. I can't help but think that your graveyard will be stuffed but without a decent way to take advantage of it, like Gurmag Angler. Goyf will be huge, sure, but that doesn't really take any effort. Maybe trimming something for 1x Angler could be good. *shrug* If we know one thing for sure, MH2 will shake up modern in a big way. If you're interested, I'm trying to explore an Esper Shadow build in the Grixis DS thread...I know it probably isn't as good as Jund, but I've always been partial to Esper colors.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  3. #3

    Re: Jund Dreadhorde Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    -1 Inquisition
    -1 Fatal Push
    (open slot)

    +2 Dismember
    +1 Mutagenic Growth
    This is totally reasonable and the idea of Mutagenic as like a miser protection spell for the DHA is pretty solid (it's still like a "mini TBR" if you are going for a kill, just to pump twice)

    EDIT: Is Footfalls better than Temur Battle Rage? I know haste is a pretty big deal, but the double strike is basically a combo-kill with Goyf and Shadow. I can't help but think that your graveyard will be stuffed but without a decent way to take advantage of it, like Gurmag Angler. Goyf will be huge, sure, but that doesn't really take any effort. Maybe trimming something for 1x Angler could be good. *shrug* If we know one thing for sure, MH2 will shake up modern in a big way. If you're interested, I'm trying to explore an Esper Shadow build in the Grixis DS thread...I know it probably isn't as good as Jund, but I've always been partial to Esper colors.
    Without having Street Wraith in the deck to put a free creature in the yard I think the deck wants a little bit of extra help getting 4 card types for Traverse (bigger goyf is just a side-benefit). I also want the deck to be slightly more grindy than aggro so having the flexibility of the cycling rather than always being a pump spell seems appealing to me. TBR is the more stock choice.

    Can't add Angler with Lurrus

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    Re: Jund Dreadhorde Shadow

    I missed the enchantment-in-the-graveyard detail, so that's probably a good call, not just for Traverse but bigger Goyfs. I missed the Angler/Lurrus interplay...I forget that the mana value is actually 7, not 1, on that card. It also still seems weird to not have Street Wraiths, but again the tradeoff is Lurrus.

    Speaking of Lurrus...is it good enough to have even with the 3 mana 'tutor' investment? I suppose it breaks open games that go longer.
    Brainstorm Realist

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  5. #5

    Re: Jund Dreadhorde Shadow

    " the cost of playing Lurrus in your modern deck is building it correctly " ~ Tom White / McWinSauce
    Even with the tax it's still one of the best things in the format for any fair deck to be doing

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    Re: Jund Dreadhorde Shadow

    That's fair. Now I need to figure out how to build Esper around it...if I can't have Gurmag or Geist, maybe Delver?
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  7. #7

    Re: Jund Dreadhorde Shadow

    With the MH2 fully spoiled I think I want to try the list in OP with
    -4 Shadow
    +4 Dragons Rage Channeler
    Flex Slot = Kroxa
    And with the additional delirium help from DRC it might be possible to cut 1-2 of the footfall crater for something else
    Also some number of unholy heat can possibly work their way into the spell suite because this version of the deck doesn't have very good answers to things like Murktide Regent or Gurmag Angler

    A bunch of Natural State (or possibly nature's claim) seems pretty good in the SB of this

    A problem with building the deck this way is that you are basically totally cold to a rest in peace but after sb you can discard/destroy it etc

  8. #8
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    Re: Jund Dreadhorde Shadow

    With Arcanist incentivizing you to play 1-mana cards, maybe playing some amount of Tarfire might be good. It feeds delirium for DRC and makes Goyf bigger. It's probably just worse than Fatal Push though, and you (likely) don't have trouble hitting delirium, right?
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    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  9. #9

    Re: Jund Dreadhorde Shadow

    Why are we cutting ds for drc instead of goyf for drc?

    Goyf as a graveyard reliant medium sized threat seems more comparable. Traverse isnít that much better than the black cantrips like cling to dust or unearth. Sideboard enchantment removal is nice but having a premier threat that doesnít care is better imo.

    Moving to rakdos seems attractive. Without basic Forest you can have a much more reasonable manabase, and you could probably afford to play a few md kroxa. Cling to dust over traverse + less need to always shock could make the terrible burn mu better, and BB could be a good way to dodge rip.

  10. #10

    Re: Jund Dreadhorde Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Why are we cutting ds for drc instead of goyf for drc? Goyf as a graveyard reliant medium sized threat seems more comparable.
    Possible but without cards like dismember or wraith etc idk if shadow is actually ~that~ good
    At least Goyf can reliably be played turn 2

    Overall I think the more difficult thing about the threats is trying to justify not playing Ragavan in the deck, possibly you can argue that the number of red sources is a little bit too low to reliably play it on turn 1
    I've seen a Grixis list from Gerry T / Daryl Ayers that is trying to execute a similar gameplan and maybe that deck is just better

    Traverse isnít that much better than the black cantrips like cling to dust or unearth.
    If you cut it for Cling or Unearth the manabase collapses, the fact that both Traverse and Harvest can play as G: Find a land 100% of the time is what allows you to play a landcount this low. If you swap them for Cling then you have to add lands and then you lose a lot of the upside of the pseudo-cardadvantage-xerox advantage

    Sideboard enchantment removal is nice but having a premier threat that doesnít care is better imo.
    Sure but I think those effects are just really good in general at the moment (1 mana instant destroy urzas saga etc)

    Moving to rakdos seems attractive. Without basic Forest you can have a much more reasonable manabase
    Already addressed this

    , and you could probably afford to play a few md kroxa.
    You can already play 1 as a traverse target anyway, theres only 1 basic forest (land that doesn't make R or B)

    Cling to dust over traverse + less need to always shock could make the terrible burn mu better
    As I said before cutting traverse makes the manabase arguably worse and cling doesn't play very well with DHA or Kroxa. With green mana in the deck you can always play Weather the Storm or Life Goes On etc

    and BB could be a good way to dodge rip.
    Bitterblossom? Sure but the jund version could also play that

    With Arcanist incentivizing you to play 1-mana cards, maybe playing some amount of Tarfire might be good. It feeds delirium for DRC and makes Goyf bigger. It's probably just worse than Fatal Push though, and you (likely) don't have trouble hitting delirium, right?
    Yeah getting delirium shouldn't be too hard but it's not an unreasonable suggestion


    Edit:
    Another relatively crazy idea I just had is cut Tarmogoyf for Nimble Mongoose (so the creatures are 4 Goose 4 DRC 4 Arcanist)
    DRC helps to turn it on pretty fast and the option of turn 1 "I am 100% blocking your ragavan and there's nothing you can do" (in a situation where you don't have a removal spell) seems decent
    Tarmogoyf doesn't die to bolt but it does cost twice as much mana and it's pretty hard to keep it alive even against the UR decks with Unholy Heat, and other lists have Prismatic E / Push / Path etc
    (Asmo as well)

    Edit again
    I also quite like the idea of making this 4C because Prismatic Ending and Path to Exile are both pretty big additions (Naya I think wouldn't be good because vs combo / control I think you probably need the discard spells and being able to traverse for kroxa seems really strong) but it's difficult to figure out the mana

    If I copy the 4C shadow decks then maybe something like this?
    1 Overgrown Tomb
    1 Blood Crypt
    1 Temple Garden
    1 Godless Shrine
    1 Stomping Ground
    1 Swamp
    1 Forest
    11 fetchlands

    4 Goose
    4 DRC
    4 Arcanist
    1 Kroxa

    4 Bauble
    4 Bolt
    4 Harvest
    4 Traverse
    4 Prismatic Ending
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Inquisition of Kozilek
    2 Path to Exile

    ill test it anyway

    edit: aha I just realised if you flashback Prismatic Ending with arcanist it only exiles ornithopters
    maybe not such a good idea then but I still really like having the white removal
    - Good vs sanctifier en vec which you are otherwise pretty screwed against
    - There's no good 1 mana spell in jund that's a good removal for both Shadow/Scourge and also Murktide/Stormwing (-> Path)
    Last edited by kombatkiwi; 07-23-2021 at 04:54 AM.

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