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Thread: WotC Ending Pro Play Discussion

  1. #1

    WotC Ending Pro Play Discussion

    I guess Wizards decided that high-end competitive magic was banworthy after all!

  2. #2

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    I guess Wizards decided that high-end competitive magic was banworthy after all!
    Fucking weak.

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  3. #3
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Honestly it makes sense. Most pro players I've known have been pretty cool but I think the competitive grinding circuit is generally a breeding pool for toxicity, just in terms of social behavior, to say nothing of rampant cheating and theft.
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  4. #4

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    Honestly it makes sense. Most pro players I've known have been pretty cool but I think the competitive grinding circuit is generally a breeding pool for toxicity, just in terms of social behavior, to say nothing of rampant cheating and theft.
    You misunderstand: big events with large payouts aren't going away. It's the salaries for players that are.

  5. #5

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    You misunderstand: big events with large payouts aren't going away. It's the salaries for players that are.
    Why have large events with big payouts when you can instead have large events with small payouts spread out further?

    Oh, and obviously tie them in to Commander.

  6. #6

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    It's almost like they completely ignored forming a competitive scene and once the realized they maybe should do something it wasn't not only too late, they also did it in best WotC fashion, as awful as possible.

    What a surprise.

    At this point, why not rebrand to "Magic the commandering" and just drop all other formats?
    It's not like this won't happen in the next few years anyway.

  7. #7

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoid View Post
    It's almost like they completely ignored forming a competitive scene and once the realized they maybe should do something it wasn't not only too late, they also did it in best WotC fashion, as awful as possible.

    What a surprise.

    At this point, why not rebrand to "Magic the commandering" and just drop all other formats?
    It's not like this won't happen in the next few years anyway.
    Honestly, that would be an upgrade because at least it would be honest and get to the truth.

  8. #8

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I understand the frustration but hasn't been it established in the last 5-10 year that the bulk of magic revenue comes front casual (kitchen table, commander, collector, non-tournament competing) people? It makes sense from a financial pov to drop the Pro support in favor of those.

    Legacy is dead anyway with the RL price spikes.

  9. #9

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Why have large events with big payouts when you can instead have large events with small payouts spread out further?

    Oh, and obviously tie them in to Commander.
    I don't know, just relaying information. They said there would still be PT and Grand Prix level/size events, and they were going to reinvest the money used for Rivals and MPL for bigger prizes.

  10. #10

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kage View Post
    I understand the frustration but hasn't been it established in the last 5-10 year that the bulk of magic revenue comes front casual (kitchen table, commander, collector, non-tournament competing) people? It makes sense from a financial pov to drop the Pro support in favor of those.

    Legacy is dead anyway with the RL price spikes.
    According to their internal data, 90% of players have never played in a sanctioned event, a number I find difficult to believe since that would preclude prelease/release events which I'm sure everyone was roped into at least once who plays the game for any period of time.
    Or they're counting MTGO/Arena bots in a weird way.

  11. #11

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    I don't know, just relaying information. They said there would still be PT and Grand Prix level/size events, and they were going to reinvest the money used for Rivals and MPL for bigger prizes.
    Do you really believe what they say?

  12. #12

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    According to their internal data, 90% of players have never played in a sanctioned event, a number I find difficult to believe since that would preclude prelease/release events which I'm sure everyone was roped into at least once who plays the game for any period of time.
    Or they're counting MTGO/Arena bots in a weird way.
    I'm actually surprised this number isn't higher. Also, you severely underestimate the army of casual players out there that just play the greatest format ever: "Cards I Own."

  13. #13

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Do you really believe what they say?
    When it comes to "will promotional magic exist" yea.
    When it comes to "90% of players haven't played so much in a prerelease ever" no.

  14. #14

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    I'm actually surprised this number isn't higher. Also, you severely underestimate the army of casual players out there that just play the greatest format ever: "Cards I Own."
    IDK I used to work in an LGS and even kitchen table kids would have their story how they went to an organized play event hated it and never played in the DCI again. Which would take them out of the 90%

  15. #15

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kage View Post
    I understand the frustration but hasn't been it established in the last 5-10 year that the bulk of magic revenue comes front casual (kitchen table, commander, collector, non-tournament competing) people? It makes sense from a financial pov to drop the Pro support in favor of those.

    Legacy is dead anyway with the RL price spikes.
    Taking a dump on the pro scene is also a huge blow to competitive magic in general.
    The pro scene both draws in people in with the minuscule probability of "making it big" like other sports as well as doing advertisement.
    However, considering what kind of BS the community has taken without lube in the last decade+, it's probably inconsequential.
    It's incredibly sad that magic has reached the point of being "too big to fail" because there are so many idiots still buying everything.

    Let's see how competitive evolves when in person play becomes possible again.
    Maybe they'll think about it again when they notice their Standard legal sets don't sell anymore.
    One can only dream.....

  16. #16

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I dont get it.

    Maybe someone should open a thread in the Community board and explain what exactly is changing!

    tbh sounds like alot of "the sky is falling" talk
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  17. #17

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I assume it is something like pro play was their attempt to foster personalities that could be good ambassadors for the game, specifically in marketing. This was traditionally the case with how pro players made articles for big mtg sites like star city. Maybe they have found pros aren't that great for that, especially when wotc ruins formats for years and pro players have to pretend it isn't that bad, they basically only play standard and limited, which are boring to watch, and they are fairly limited outside of their niche of competitive play, which few people actually do when it comes to mtg. On top of that most pros aren't exactly the type that care about being charismatic and marketable personalities. Maybe they are just moving away from 'pro' being a thing since it requires them to be able to design good sets that arent broken while keeping them fresh, which they find too restrictive under the FIRE design philosophy.

    At the same time there has been a rise in popularity in the parasocial nerd cliques like the ones that do special events like the pre-prereleases (loadingreadyrun), or the ones that do commander videos (commander vs, command zone etc) or just casual players like Tolorian Community College. These guys can get hype for every product that wotc prints (secret lair hype!!!), whereas pro players only care about regular set printings for the most part. They also don't really care if the formats they play are dumpster fires since they are more casual (which aligns better with the core demographic), and they can also be used as crossover promotional tools for other IP like DnD. Hell, they can just do content like opening packs and people love that. So these new guys basically fulfill the functions pros had before in terms of advertising the game, and are far superior at it.

  18. #18
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by phonics View Post
    Maybe they have found pros aren't that great for that, especially when wotc ruins formats for years and pro players have to pretend it isn't that bad, they basically only play standard and limited, which are boring to watch, and they are fairly limited outside of their niche of competitive play, which few people actually do when it comes to mtg.
    It doesn't help that the more interesting formats aren't accessible to most people because of an abominable pricing model that's engineered into the game. Standard was fun when I was a kid. Standard isn't fun in my thirties. Want to try something more interesting? Pay up. $150. No, don't pay the game's manufacturer; pay some other guy. And now, it's actually $500. Why? Because.

    A strong narrative with interesting personalities in the pro circuit won't fix this. And it's not just Legacy that has this problem: There are Modern decks that are more expensive than, and worse than, competitive Legacy lists, and it's getting worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by phonics View Post
    On top of that most pros aren't exactly the type that care about being charismatic and marketable personalities.
    This is tremendously important. Any and all hot air and corporatese statements of intent exchanged over inclusivity are ultimately overwritten by butthole streamers who act like they're still 12 and attract a fanbase of butthole players who ruin in-person play for everybody else.

    This is not a blanket indictment of MtG content creators, but the "thimbleful of shit" analogy applies to the community.

    Quote Originally Posted by phonics View Post
    At the same time there has been a rise in popularity in the parasocial nerd cliques like the ones that do special events like the pre-prereleases (loadingreadyrun), or the ones that do commander videos (commander vs, command zone etc) or just casual players like Tolorian Community College. These guys can get hype for every product that wotc prints (secret lair hype!!!), whereas pro players only care about regular set printings for the most part.
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  19. #19
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Leaving product hype up to content creators is a super risky move imho, unless those creators are expressly on Hasbro's dime they'll be reviewing the product as individuals instead of in lock-step with corporate. Tolarian Community College is a pretty good example of being a dissenting voice, if everyone listened to The Professor we'd never see another Secret Lair.
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  20. #20

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    It doesn't help that the more interesting formats aren't accessible to most people because of an abominable pricing model that's engineered into the game. Standard was fun when I was a kid. Standard isn't fun in my thirties. Want to try something more interesting? Pay up. $150. No, don't pay the game's manufacturer; pay some other guy. And now, it's actually $500. Why? Because.
    This is why I am critical of modern wotc printing practices starting with the masters sets and haven't purchased any product in years. They saw that the secondary market was pricing cards very high and instead of trying to alleviate that issue, they essentially co-opted it for their own profit. Instead of getting lots of sales by reprinting expensive cards in standard sets with standard prices, they now reprint expensive cards in non standard sets with non standard pricing simply to capture that portion of the secondary market. Now they go even further with what is basically print to demand "pimp" in the collectors editions and secret lairs. I guess what it boils down to is that the new demographic they care about are much more willing to spend much more money than the people who thought a 50$ baneslayer was ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    Leaving product hype up to content creators is a super risky move imho, unless those creators are expressly on Hasbro's dime they'll be reviewing the product as individuals instead of in lock-step with corporate. Tolarian Community College is a pretty good example of being a dissenting voice, if everyone listened to The Professor we'd never see another Secret Lair.
    It could be risky, I think the one example was what happened with the walking dead secret lair, some people were very vocal against it but in the end they still fell into line. It isnt really a secret that wotc has messed up a lot recently but they do a pretty good job of not letting criticism stick.
    I think TCC is unique since he is basically the biggest one and largely unaffiliated but is still largely nonthreatening, like a softer, controlled opposition (though I could be wrong, I haven't really watched much of his videos). In comparison I think most of the other groups are just uncontroversial yes-men, that understand it is better to not bite the hand that feeds them, be it wotc who give them juicy card reveals or whatever, or to card stores whose sole purpose is to churn cards into the market.

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