Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 61 to 70 of 70

Thread: Legacy Hollow-Vine

  1. #61
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    3,368

    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    Yeah Petal is great here. I just doubt that OUAT is the correct cut. As bad as they are past turn 1, you also need 4 copies to maximize seeing it on turn 1 and this deck is all about the turn 1s. Hanni's build had 4 OUAT + 4 Petal.

    I would cut 2 lands + 2 other slots to make room for 4 Petal. 16 lands seems like too many. Petal also makes it easier to make T1 Kitchen Imps and play through Daze.

  2. #62

    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    Since I gathered much helpful information from this thread (thanks to everyone contributing) I want to share my current list and ask for some opinions.

    The list:

    4 Hollow One
    4 Vengevine

    4 Basking Rootwalla
    4 Blazing Rootwalla

    4 Anje's Ravager
    2 Ox of Agonas

    4 Putrid Imp
    4 Tireless Tribe
    4 Breakthrough
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond

    4 Once Upon a Time
    4 Lotus Petal

    4 Gemstone Mine
    2 City of Brass
    4 Mana Confluence
    4 Cavern of Souls

    Sideboard:

    2 Firestorm
    2 Ancient Grudge
    2 Bone Shards
    4 Faerie Macabre

    5 ???

    The list feels great but I have doubts on Ox of Agonas in this fast 5c setup, oftentimes it is too slow to have an impact and thus could be replaced with a more aggressive option.
    I thought about replacing it with the following cards:
    Echo of Eons could be a more aggressive LED payoff that cycles into more Hallow Ones and Wallas.
    First-Sphere Gargantua as another LED payoff that draws a card and deals a one-time 5 damage.
    The obvious addition as a discard payoff would be Kitchen Imp, even more so since I do play petal, but I am not really fond of him ... maybe you guys can convince me?
    A wild one would be Bomat Courier but it does not contribute anything towards T1, but could be a similar refuel card like Ravager and Ox while also being a discard outlet.

    I was also thinking of replacing Once Upon A Time with Serum Powder for more consistent T1 hands. Often I do not keep hands that miss 1 piece of the "combo" but had OUAT because there could be better 6 cards and the chance to brick and do nothing for x turns is not insignificant. In these scenarios, the Powder would be a new grip of 7 instead of 6. The powder is dead for the rest of the game on the other hand, whereas OUAT still has some functionality. OUAT however is usually used by me to make good and functional hands better, which has its merits.

    The sideboard is a mess, I like Faerie Macabre with OUAT, and found 3 Firestorm as being too clunky when drawing multiples, but besides that, I have 5 open slots ... any suggestions?
    I tried Thalia, Guardian of Thraben as a way to battle combo decks (petal, OUAT, ...) or Deafening Silence but was not convinced.
    I also struggled a bit against lands and thought about Alpine Moon to fight against The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Maze of Ith, and Glacial Chasm.

    Please do not be hesitant on hard feedback, these are just some (wild) thoughts and I would love to get some input.
    For now, I won nearly every match I played on X, but would like to tweak the list more for future tournament play.
    It was also nice to see other people pick up the deck, I had to play some mirrors. Breakthrough was a great tie-breaker in these games.

  3. #63
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    3,368

    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    Glad to hear Breakthrough has been strong, especially with Petal mana added.

    Yeah, Ox is less good without Burning Inquiry and Faithless Looting to dig and fill the graveyard. Ox could be the cut for this type of build.

    I like Kitchen Imp, but not everyone is a fan. Perhaps you already have enough small creatures through Rootwallas and 8PImp. If you want to replace Ox with a card-drawing body you can cast more reliably, Asylum Visitor is an option. Or maybe you want that slot to be Burning Inquiry or Cabal Therapy.

    If you have open slots in the SB and main, I would try out Therapy. It can fill multiple roles between disruption and madness outlet, and it's easy to flashback.

    I would still play 3 Firestorm. The chance of drawing doubles is small, bad luck. If that 2nd Firestorm was a Bone Shards instead, would your hand be any better? You would still probably cast Firestorm first. On the other hand, if you drew an opening hand with only Bone Shards (instead of Firestorm) vs Elves, D&T or UR Ragavan, wouldn't that be much worse? You could kill their first creature but wouldn't be able to deploy threats. Firestorm is an uncounterable discard X. Against a deck like UR Delver, if you Firestorm their Ragavan/DRC, you are discarding cards no matter what (can't be stopped by Force or Daze). They could counter the Firestorm, letting you play your creatures, or they could counter Hollow One and let their creature die. Either way you're making some progress here. For matchups where Firestorm is good, you always want it on turn 1, and that's hard with 2 copies.

    Alpine Moon seems good. It also beats Urza's Saga (which can tutor up hate) and Bojuka Bog (from Crop Rotation decks like Depths and Lands).

  4. #64

    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    Hello there !

    I enjoy playing this deck a lot and I play a stock jund version at this point (already listed in a previous post).

    In my metagame, it struggles against early big blockers like Murktide Regent, Marit Lage or even Tarmogoyf with good draws (not the best ones).

    Last tournament was :
    2 Unknown decks
    1 Karn Echos
    1 Reanimator
    1 Esper control
    1 Bant control
    1 ANT
    1 Maverick
    1 UR Delver
    1 RUG Delver
    1 Goblins
    1 Sneak and Show
    1 Black Suicide
    1 Artifact Prison

    I see no obvious sideboard card instead of Chain of Vapor and replacing a Mountain by a Volcanic Island right now. Plan would be to fetch Badlands then Volcanic Island instead of Taiga. Bone shards or Run Afoul can't answer everything in my metagame. Not sure we can afford any 2 CMC cards.

    Do you have any other card in mind ?

  5. #65
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    3,368

    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    The 5c manabase has a much easier time playing SB cards. That's another reason in its favor.

    In 5c you can run anything in that slot: Chain of Vapor, Path to Exile, Innocent Blood, Sudden Edict (may be too hard to cast depending on your mana).
    Jund probably depends on Run Afoul getting there.

  6. #66

    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    I still need to ponder the 5c version. Being able to play with 1 Mountain is great against a lot of decks, splashing a fourth color is already a step in the wrong direction. A lot of decks play some Wasteland package with big blockers.

    I turned the problem around my head and it seemed clear no creature deck can race Hollow-Vine and we probably just need to tempo the opponent one or two turns.

    Then I remembered Apostle's Blessing in some Infect decks. This card could save an Anje's Ravager from an removal spell (not on turn 1) or make unblockable Hollow One against later blockers.

    Random thought, Kitchen Imp can chump block as a combat trick too against Marit Lage.

    I'm still looking for good and cheap combat tricks.

  7. #67

    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by meuns View Post
    Hello there !

    I enjoy playing this deck a lot and I play a stock jund version at this point (already listed in a previous post).

    In my metagame, it struggles against early big blockers like Murktide Regent, Marit Lage or even Tarmogoyf with good draws (not the best ones).

    Last tournament was :
    2 Unknown decks
    1 Karn Echos
    1 Reanimator
    1 Esper control
    1 Bant control
    1 ANT
    1 Maverick
    1 UR Delver
    1 RUG Delver
    1 Goblins
    1 Sneak and Show
    1 Black Suicide
    1 Artifact Prison

    I see no obvious sideboard card instead of Chain of Vapor and replacing a Mountain by a Volcanic Island right now. Plan would be to fetch Badlands then Volcanic Island instead of Taiga. Bone shards or Run Afoul can't answer everything in my metagame. Not sure we can afford any 2 CMC cards.

    Do you have any other card in mind ?
    Do you remember what your T1s were in these scenarios?
    I am playing the 5c version with Break Through and Nomand to have more explosive T1s, whereas the Jund version tends to have a more consistent "mid" game, while not always having a strong T1. I even included Echo of Eons for know, which can create some amazing T1s with LED and redraw into Hollow Ones or as a make-shift mulligan (still testing).
    It would give some insight if the times you struggled with blockers were because of "slow" T1 hands.

    But if they go T2 Marit Lage or a timely big Murktide it is rough for any version of the deck tbh.
    FTW gave some good sideboard options that do not necessarily require a fourth or fifth color. Bone Shards also gets Murktide and Goyf, but of coruse not Marit Lage :)

  8. #68

    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    I took no precise notes about my starts just some memories.

    I did mulligan to 6 a lot, to 5 a few and no T1 was bad.

    Best T1 used Burning Inquiry and Hollow One both on the play and on the draw.

    Anje's Ravager got killed a lot after discarding my whole hand... and Ox of Agonas was useless in this case.

    All lost games were against big early blockers I couldn't remove or ignore. I destroyed several Golos, Tireless Pilgrim with Ancient Grudge against Artifact Prison and I was able to win in the late game (T5 or 6 maybe).

  9. #69
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    3,368

    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by eatbasics View Post
    But if they go T2 Marit Lage or a timely big Murktide it is rough for any version of the deck tbh.
    Yeah, this is hard for any version preboard. SB needs answers.

    Path to Exile kills Marit Lage, Murktide, Goyf, BR Reanimator guys (Griselbrand, Chancellor, etc), Hogaak, Gurmag, Shadow... most early big threats. +1 land is not a big deal if you got the explosive T1. Giving them life would be worse.

    Chain of Vapor hits all the same things as long as you think they can't deploy it again or won't also bounce your Hollow One (Vapor Snag might be better)

    Run Afoul hits Marit Lage, Murktide and Reanimator flyers... that's pretty good. But it misses Goyf and Hogaak. Maybe grave hate could manage those.

    Bone Shards hits Goyf too but misses Marit Lage. Not sure that is worth it. Depends on meta. Path and bounce hit more things, if you can make the colored mana.

  10. #70

    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    Next list I will play :

    4 Putrid Imp
    4 Blazing Rootwalla
    4 Basking Rootwalla
    4 Anje's Ravager
    3 Kitchen Imp
    2 Anger
    4 Vengevine
    4 Hollow One

    4 Once Upon a Time
    4 Burning Inquiry
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    2 Lotus Petal

    2 Arid Mesa
    2 Badlands
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Mountain
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Taiga
    2 Wooded Foothills

    Sideboard :

    2 Firestorm
    2 Run Afoul
    2 Ancient Grudge
    2 Bone Shards
    3 Cabal Therapy
    4 Leyline of the Void

    I swapped :
    Faerie Macabre for Leyline of the Void because playing T1 on the draw against combo/reanimator against discard is better this way;
    Mindbreak Trap for Cabal Therapy for all reasons listed in previous posts;
    Ox of Agonas for Lotus Petal for fixing my early game (T1 Daze, T1 Hollow One, T1 Kitchen Imp...);
    Gamble for Kitchen Imp because it was too slow (no available mana) or just win more, I only rely on Once Upon a Time.

    I hope to increase my winrate !

    2 Ox of Agonas could come back with 2 Goblin Lore if more control decks pop in my tournaments.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)