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Thread: Legacy Hollow-Vine

  1. #21
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    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I think more than anything it replaces Bloodghast, and once Bloodghast is out of the picture I think Prized Amalgam becomes a lot more suspect. With 8 self-returning creatures (VV/BGhast) Amalgam was worthwhile. Now I think Ox of Agonas is the better direction. KImps block Delver/Marit Lage and aggressively attack with haste. Having up to 8 1-mana flyers (Pimp, Kimp) also makes for an impressively aggressive creature package.
    Yeah, what you said is basically what motivated my switch to Ox + Ravager over Bloodghast + Amalgam. We can now create more pressure without as much graveyard vulnerability and while triggering Vengevine. Before MH2 I would not have considered that direction.

    Firestorm also makes an amazing Tireless Tribe effect once we are a Badlands deck. If opponent has even 1 creature, it is Searing Blaze + 0-mana Hollow One. With 2 creatures we are firing 4 damage at both and 4 at opponent's dome.

  2. #22

    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    ...
    Firestorm also makes an amazing Tireless Tribe effect once we are a Badlands deck. If opponent has even 1 creature, it is Searing Blaze + 0-mana Hollow One. With 2 creatures we are firing 4 damage at both and 4 at opponent's dome.
    Don't you need X different targets for Firestorm?

  3. #23

    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Don't you need X different targets for Firestorm?
    Yeah, in the 3 damage scenario you're hitting yourself, too; 4 damage 2 creatures the opponent and yourself, etc… Basically if you don’t get the max value out of the spell (killing 3 creatures or 2 creatures and Bolting the opponent) Firestorm is a burn spell, removal spell and like a self targeted Fiery Temper if you’re trying to enable a free Hollow One.

  4. #24

    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    In case anyone is interested, this is a recent list I saw (ellaone - MTGO player) and reverse built after they decked themselves playing against Tony Murata (into_play) in a league. They also played this list against AnziD in the challenge today (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1053851031?t=9262s — 2:34:30 is the start of the match). No clue what the sideboard is.

    2 Ox of Agonas
    3 Anger
    4 Hollow One
    4 Vengevine
    4 Anje's Ravager
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Basking Rootwalla
    4 Blazing Rootwalla
    4 Putrid Imp

    4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
    4 Burning Inquiry
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Once Upon a Time

    3 Wooded Foothills
    2 Taiga
    2 Mountain
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Badlands
    2 Arid Mesa

  5. #25
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    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    Re above list: Not playing Kitchen Imp seems like a mistake. That card is pretty good for 1 mana. Anger seems good with T1 Hollow One but with just Rootwallas it seems worse than just making a 2/2 flying haste.

    OUAT seems good. Not a fan of Burning Inquiry, even if it can mess up opponent's hand. Street Wraith is pretty bad too. Maybe that slot should be Tireless Tribe.



    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Don't you need X different targets for Firestorm?
    Fail case X=2: Target opponent and yourself

    X=3: Target opponent, 1 creature, yourself

    X=4: Target opponent, 2 creatures, yourself

    Unless you're facing Burn or TES or opponent has many creatures out, you usually target yourself with Firestorm to get a free +1. This is an aggressive deck that also wants to discard most of the hand on turn 1. 1-mana Searing Blaze + discard outlet is worth taking 3 damage for. Even if you deal yourself 4 damage, it's a 1 mana Flame Rift + double Flame Slash + Tireless Tribe effect for 1 mana. That's insane value for a 1-mana on color instant. The only reason it isn't maindeck is it's awkward if your opponent doesn't have an early creature. But against any deck that usually plays a turn 1 creature, it's a beating.

  6. #26
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    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    I would straight up cut Burning Inquiry for Kitchen Imp in that list
    It's a good thing they are splashing black because their combo matchups would be atrocious otherwise. Being explosive isn't enough against unopposed combo decks, they're going to wreck your face. Depths, Sneak/show, Storm, and elves are all faster with even mediocre draws. I think explosive aggro is decent against delver and the midrange blue decks, but still weak to ideal starts from opponents. I think it may be worth playing blue duals for Daze, or at least finding a way to include Cabal Therapy/Thoughtseize maindeck.
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  7. #27

    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    Seeing Anger makes me wonder if there's an Entomb package that makes sense. The deck already runs several cards that work well with it. Phantasmagorian would turn Entomb into a discard outlet, and Coffin Purge would be nice sideboard tech.

  8. #28
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    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    If playing Hogaak, yes I could see an Entomb package. Otherwise this isn't Reanimator where you're all-in on one threat (Griselbrand), you need a critical mass of threats to be aggressive enough. One Vengevine won't do it. Honestly, I think the better card from the Anger cycle is Wonder. Flying is a lot more important than haste in most games.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    Tireless Tribe could still be good here and I think Kitchen Imp is too good not to play.

    Street Wraith and Burning Inquiry are the most questionable slots.


    //Creatures: 34
    4 Putrid Imp
    4 Tireless Tribe
    4 Basking Rootwalla
    4 Blazing Rootwalla
    4 Kitchen Imp
    4 Anje's Ravager
    4 Vengevine
    4 Hollow One
    2 Ox of Agonas

    //Spells: 12
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Once Upon A Time

    //Lands: 14
    4 Gemstone Mine
    4 Mana Confluence
    3 City of Brass
    3 Cavern of Souls

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Firestorm
    3 Abrupt Decay
    3 Faerie Macabre
    2 Big Game Hunter


    Or -4 Tribe, - 1 OUAT, +2 Anger + 3 Therapy main and then stick to Jund mana

  10. #30
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    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    I agree, Street Wraith is really only good if you have some way to use it in another capacity than a redraw, like Reanimate with Death's Shadow or some sort of Life from the Loam synergy. As the other thread has discussed, the best enablers are 1-mana creatures. Lotleth Troll is so close to good, but ultimately is worse than tweaking the mana-base and adding Tribe. However, with 8 Rootwallas it might be time to reevaluate it as a possible 2-of. I'm looking in that direction for my SHIV deck. OUAT is probably the most polarized card of the deck: it's busted free but embarrassing after t1. I didn't mind discarding it with Imp if I drew it, just to feed mid-game Hollow Ones.

    Lion's Eye Diamond puts you all-in, basically on Anje's Ravager and maybe a free Rootwalla or 2. The re-draw is cool with Ravager if you untap with it, but I need to see it in action to see what I'm missing. It just doesn't look that great. I was thinking this sort of deck really wants to be somewhat of a blitz deck: just blast a bunch of free/cheap dudes and hope it gets there. If there are 3-4 threats available then you can probably grind through, but if not and you're all in on a Ravager you are waiting for draw steps to make something happen. It's just not my style to give up that much agency in a game.

    What the deck really needs is a powerful engine, like Affinity now has with 8 Thoughtcast effects. I love that style of deck where you just play free 1/1's, 2/2's, and 4/4's and then draw more of them for U. I'm definitely going to build something with that synergy. Maybe something with convoke would be good here. EDIT: Hogaak is the best convoke card, hands down, because there aren't any convoke cards that say 'draw 2 cards'. Bummer.
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  11. #31
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    Re: Legacy Hollow-Vine

    People are swearing by Burning Inquiry and getting results with it. Since most of the deck is happy to be discarded, it seems potentially explosive by digging 3 deep, but I really prefer lines where you have control of your hand. At least postboard it seems like the easiest cut for Firestorm.

    If we cut Tireless Tribe then Anger is playable off the Jund manabase. Decks with that and Burning Inquiry have gotten results and look like this.

    12th place Legacy Challenge: https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...#cvxw_th_place

    //Creatures: 29
    4 Putrid Imp
    4 Basking Rootwalla
    4 Blazing Rootwalla
    4 Anje's Ravager
    4 Vengevine
    4 Hollow One
    3 Anger
    2 Ox of Agonas

    //Spells: 16
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Burning Inquiry
    4 Once Upon A Time

    //Lands: 15
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Wooded Foothills
    2 Arid Mesa
    2 Badlands
    2 Taiga
    2 Mountain

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Leyline of the Void
    3 Firestorm
    3 Bone Shards
    3 Ancient Grudge
    2 Meltdown



    Asylum Visitor is also tech I've seen from other decks. It lets you dig out of being hellbent like Ravager and gives more payoff for LED. The all-in version might have to cut Hollow One due to lack of control

    MTGO 5-0: https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...nimatorfiend_-

    //Creatures: 32
    4 Putrid Imp
    4 Basking Rootwalla
    4 Blazing Rootwalla
    4 Kitchen Imp
    4 Asylum Visitor
    4 Anje's Ravager
    4 Vengevine
    2 Ox of Agonas
    2 Hogaak, Risen Necropolis

    //Spells: 12
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Burning Inquiry
    4 Faithless Looting

    //Lands: 16
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Wooded Foothills
    4 Badlands
    3 Taiga
    1 Mountain
    1 Swamp

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Leyline of the Void
    3 Bone Shards
    2 Sudden Edict
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    2 Run Afoul
    2 Ancient Grudge



    Leyline over Faerie Macabre makes sense if they are discarding random cards from hand.

    If we stick with the Tireless Tribe tech, we lose Anger but get more control of discarded cards

    //Creatures: 35
    4 Putrid Imp
    4 Tireless Tribe
    4 Basking Rootwalla
    4 Blazing Rootwalla
    4 Kitchen Imp
    3 Asylum Visitor
    4 Anje's Ravager
    4 Vengevine
    4 Hollow One

    //Spells: 10
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    2 Faithless Looting
    4 Once Upon A Time

    //Lands: 15
    3 Cavern of Souls
    4 Mana Confluence
    4 Gemstone Mine
    4 City of Brass

    //Sideboard: 15
    3 Firestorm
    3 Bone Shards
    2 Ancient Grudge
    2 Meltdown
    2 Leyline of the Void
    2 Faerie Macabre
    1 Mindbreak Trap

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