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Thread: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

  1. #581

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    The Ancient One
    UB
    Legendary Creature - Spirit God
    Descent 8 - This can't attack or block if you have less than 8 or more permanent cards in your graveyard.

    2UB: Draw a card, then discard a card. When you do, target player mills equal to that card's mana value.


    Can only attack through a Dress Down, but is Varolz friendly

  2. #582

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    I guess it also works with Scroll of Fate

  3. #583

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    I guess it also works with Scroll of Fate
    Illusionary Mask too, but once once. And 8/8 without trample attacking once isn't really enough.
    Sorry, there was an implied "and that's not good enough" when I mentioned dress down.

  4. #584
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    In UB you died many turns ago to card type enchantment (see also Beanstalk). Unless this card triggered a draw/discard for no mana once per your turn, it isn't worth testing.

  5. #585
    The green Ancestral
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    In UB you died many turns ago to card type enchantment (see also Beanstalk). Unless this card triggered a draw/discard for no mana once per your turn, it isn't worth testing.
    Fox, what's your current list? I'm assuming it's UW or UWr with Dress Down, Vision Charm, and Scroll of Fate.

  6. #586
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    Fox, what's your current list? I'm assuming it's UW or UWr with Dress Down, Vision Charm, and Scroll of Fate.
    UR Dreadstill, 4x DRC, 2x Lavamancer, 3 Nought. Only other change is 2x Lorien. 2x PoP SB, Beanstalk manabases are R.I.P.py af.

  7. #587
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    UR Dreadstill, 4x DRC, 2x Lavamancer, 3 Nought. Only other change is 2x Lorien. 2x PoP SB, Beanstalk manabases are R.I.P.py af.
    Still on LavaMan, even in a Bowmasters meta?

    What about Izzet Staticaster? Doesn't -2 opponent though or manage GY size, but also doesn't die to surprise Bowmaster and can surprise kill them out of nowhere.

    Are you playing the red modal land (deal 1)?

  8. #588
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Still on LavaMan, even in a Bowmasters meta?

    What about Izzet Staticaster? Doesn't -2 opponent though or manage GY size, but also doesn't die to surprise Bowmaster and can surprise kill them out of nowhere.

    Are you playing the red modal land (deal 1)?
    Unless Lavamancer is summoning sick and not in 2/2 face-down form, it's not like Bowmancer is going to survive. Not that concerned about them getting a 1/1..and again Bowmancer isn't exactly effective against 6 slots of Stifle/Drmidrange.

    The other consideration is that Bowmancer decks by definition cannot play land-go, and certainly can't play land-go with a 2 mana penalty by always holding up Bowmaster. If they have Bowmaster in hand, they have to play it b/c they are midrange.

    Staticaster x1 is still in the SB. There is still 1x Spikefield in the main.

  9. #589
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    I noticed fairly decent numbers for Dressnought in the analysis of Eternal Weekend Europe (https://mtgdecks.net/Legacy/eternal-...45035/winrates), so I looked up the lists for the players, who finished 7-3 and 6-3-1.

    The 7-3 list is UG and appears to be playing an aggressive, protect-the-queen strategy:
    https://mtgdecks.net/Legacy/simic-te...ptopus-1805507

    The 6-3-1 list is UGW and is more fluid, with more of a midrange plan.
    https://mtgdecks.net/Legacy/bant-com...echica-1805537

    Both lists run Uro, but they're pretty different. Scroll of Fate, Urza's Saga, and Retrofitter Foundry in the second list are there to grind. I imagine the first list jams out Uro ASAP as a Dreadnought alternative. I don't think I've seen Subtlety in any lists before.

  10. #590
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Subtlety tech has been used by some and discussed here before, but is rare.

    It's a 1-mana body with Stifle or Slip, like Grief scam. It's an interesting reaction to the Scam meta. If opponent tries turn 1 Grief, instead of getting your hand annihilated you can T0 counter with Subtlety (2-for-2 & Grief does not go to grave, unlike with Force). If you have U open (OTP) then you can counter Grief & Stifle in a 1-mana 3/3 flyer. Strong plays. Otherwise you can play Subtlety more slowly.

    Subtlety also gives the deck more early threats to combo out. Uro is slow. Stifle+Subtlety is a faster play, so you can justify a tempo shell with Daze. Whereas if you're on 4 Uro then you're midrange.

    I think the 3/3 is normally too slow to be worth comboing out in a speed plan (2-mana 12/12!), but its a good response to Grief scam and Initiative.
    Last edited by FTW; 11-26-2023 at 03:26 AM.

  11. #591

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Time to give a good long look at manifest/mask enablers again...

  12. #592
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Wow that looks strong with Scroll of Fate + Phyrexian Dreadnought.

    It gives a wincon outside the combat step or allows a 1-turn clock instead of a 2-turn clock:
    EOT Manifest Dreadnought with Scroll
    Untap, attack, turn face up for 1, deal 24 (12 ping + 12 combat)

    Opponent can't interact with sorcery speed responses.

  13. #593
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Opponent can't interact with sorcery speed responses.
    If both are on the battlefield these all fail:
    -sorcery
    -sorcery with Teferi +1
    -instant
    -split second

    No matter what response is chosen they're taking either 12 or 15. The only viable response is Stifle effect.

  14. #594
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    If both are on the battlefield these all fail:
    -sorcery
    -sorcery with Teferi +1
    -instant
    -split second

    No matter what response is chosen they're taking either 12 or 15. The only viable response is Stifle effect.
    They can't respond to the 12-15 damage, yes.

    I meant sorcery speed can't even stop the 24 damage. You get a surprise 1 turn kill.

    Scroll of Fate gets 1 hasty 12/12 attack before opponent has a turn. But you often need additional damage sources to count from 12 to 20 (Bolt, DRC, Lavamancer). Now you can just do 24 in one turn with EOT Dreadnought.

    Tishana's Tidebinder may be the most dangerous response.
    Last edited by FTW; 01-17-2024 at 07:32 PM.

  15. #595
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Tidebinder doesn't really work here. If they counter the take 12 trigger, it obligatory strips abilities from the 3/2 that generated the trigger, leaving them in extreme trouble due to a 12/12 trample and 3 less mana (casting Tidebinder).

    If a second 3/2 with disguise is present, the flip-trigger game is back on.

    If they put Tidebinder on stack, it takes very little mana to cast a Dress Down while also blasting for 12-15.

    Tidebinder is beyond useless at countering special actions, in the same way that Humility and Cursed Totem and Pithing Needle all in play together at the same time do not prevent turning cards face-up. Special actions are not abilities.

  16. #596
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    It stops the 12-15 ping better than Stifle. It's not a crippling response, just better than most options.

    You Disguise Pyrotechnic, it triggers, Tidebinder counters the 3 damage. Then the ability stays stripped, so any Dreadnoughts now or later don't deal 12. You can only get around it if you have a facedown Dreadnought not yet turned face up, then you can 12 them in response.

    Tidebinder could also ambush Pyrotechnic in combat, to prevent removal unlocking it later. For that reason, you probably turn face up outside the combat step so you don't walk into both a countered trigger and ambushed attacker.
    Last edited by FTW; 01-17-2024 at 07:11 PM.

  17. #597

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Half true: I can turn the Dreadnought up in response, or at the same time.
    Also I like this card because simply having 2 is 9 damage. They stack.

  18. #598
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    If you turn them up at the same time, both triggers stack, Tidebinder counters the 12 trigger (the 3 resolves), then Pyrotechnic loses future triggers.

    The better line is to turn up only Pyrotechnic. If they Tidebinder, you 12 them in response, and they only stopped 3 instead of 12. If they don't Tidebinder yet, they take 3, and you can wait to turn up Dreadnought any time (when they don't have 3 mana open, unless they want to play the rest of the game -3 lands).

    Anyway, this card is very strong and has few ways to stop it. Easy addition to URx Dreadnought.

  19. #599

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Mono R dread stompy

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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Mono R dread stompy
    Don't know about mono R, but 4 Ancient Tomb 4 Urza's Saga seems good.

    Easier to power out Scroll of Fate or facedown 2/2s. You also get Broadside Bombardiers (not amazing with Dreadnought but still a good card).

    At the top end you get Karn into Torpor Orb or usual Karn shenanigans.

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