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Thread: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

  1. #281
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Where did I say this? They had 4 mana, tapped out for Jace and downticked. There was no answer for the Bane that turn. Unless they had a wrath in hand (which they didn't because they didn't cast it on their next turn after I added an Uro to the board) they were not in a position to answer the Bane and scooped. Exactly why my deck is running Bane instead of Murktide.
    Ah, so they were just giving out free info while dead on board. I thought they'd at least have had 5 mana.
    ---
    Against ANT you misboarded. The trend you want to watch out for is boarding in all this 1-mana interaction while simultaneously tapping yourself out of 1 mana interaction. Kinda self-defeating.

    Your best line is always going to be: I have mana on your turn ANT -> you didn't go off -> EoT Dress Down -> Dreadnought -> guess who has 2 thumbs and is only down 1 mana while passing back the turn.

    The worst card in your deck vs ANT is Ledger Shredder by a wide margin. It makes it really hard to use instant speed draw to hide a FoW with Brainstorm and draw into it effectively when you give your opponent the ability to force you to draw into the pile. After this you don't need 6 slots of Uro and Bane, so trim one and one. Bring in 3x Veil, 1x Fluster, 2x Breacher. You don't need more when your deck has 4x FoW, 2x FoN, 4x Stifle. Really the only thing you need to do is stop tapping out. If you think you need more, bring in Archmage Charm before Mindbreak.

    The SB is a mess and wastes 11 slots (I only agree with Scroll and Veils). You already killed combo by playing Stiflenought...then you double-killed combo....then you killed it 3 and then 4 times over. Regain your ability to farm Delver maindeck and work on other matchups with the SB.

  2. #282

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Ah, so they were just giving out free info while dead on board. I thought they'd at least have had 5 mana.
    They're not here. You don't have to keep trying to score a sick dunk here. Also you're wrong: They weren't DOB, they got to untap twice. Once with just sailors' bane in play, (where they punted downticking jace) and then the next turn.
    You're coming off incredibly petty here constantly trying to get everyone convinced this absolute stranger, based on a sample size of two games you didn't even see, is awful. They, like every other opponent I played that day, was unfamiliar with Sailors' Bane. It's not on MTGO and in every match I've played, including against the grinders at my LGS, my op has had to read it.
    ---
    Against ANT you misboarded. The trend you want to watch out for is boarding in all this 1-mana interaction while simultaneously tapping yourself out of 1 mana interaction. Kinda self-defeating.

    Your best line is always going to be: I have mana on your turn ANT -> you didn't go off -> EoT Dress Down -> Dreadnought -> guess who has 2 thumbs and is only down 1 mana while passing back the turn.

    The worst card in your deck vs ANT is Ledger Shredder by a wide margin. It makes it really hard to use instant speed draw to hide a FoW with Brainstorm and draw into it effectively when you give your opponent the ability to force you to draw into the pile. After this you don't need 6 slots of Uro and Bane, so trim one and one. Bring in 3x Veil, 1x Fluster, 2x Breacher. You don't need more when your deck has 4x FoW, 2x FoN, 4x Stifle. Really the only thing you need to do is stop tapping out. If you think you need more, bring in Archmage Charm before Mindbreak.
    I didn't realize the dreadnought plan was so good vs ANT
    The SB is a mess and wastes 11 slots (I only agree with Scroll and Veils). You already killed combo by playing Stiflenought...then you double-killed combo....then you killed it 3 and then 4 times over. Regain your ability to farm Delver maindeck and work on other matchups with the SB.
    So what would you do with the other 11?


    If I added Endurance I would cut shredder for it, but mygreen card coult is only 7, so either my side has more greens for Endurence, or I find a green replacement for consider (which is acting as a mid-teir enabler for uro and Bane)

  3. #283
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    I didn't realize the dreadnought plan was so good vs ANT
    A single -12 makes it very hard to win with Ad Nauseam. Meanwhile you barely spent any mana and can threaten interaction all day.

    Their only chance is if you have slow clocks that tap you out of interaction (Ledger Shredder, Uro). Then you either tap out (they have a window to go off) or you don't pressure their life total (they have time to get lucky drawing enough disruption and gas to go off). Then they can lucksack into more discard than you have answers and try to create a window to win. But statistically that should not happen as long as you don't tap out and pressure their life total. Especially with that much SB, the matchup should be >90% in your favor.

    I am torn between whether Bane or Uro are worse against ANT. Uro taps you out more (1UG+UUGG or 2-card combo), but also draws cards and gains life. Both pressure their resources to go off. Bane could be dead longer and doesn't draw cards, but eventually it could tap you out less. Fox's -1 each seems reasonable. Flash on both Borrower and Hullbreacher is amazing.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    So what would you do with the other 11?
    If I added Endurance I would cut shredder for it, but mygreen card coult is only 7, so either my side has more greens for Endurence, or I find a green replacement for consider (which is acting as a mid-teir enabler for uro and Bane)
    The combo match is so favorable that you don't need a narrow card like Mindbreak Trap. Trap is for aggro decks with no other hope. Cut Mindbreak and gain 3 free slots. Flusterstorm is probably unnecessary for Storm, but it helps against fair blue so 1 copy seems OK.

    Leyline of the Void is also overkill. Look at the SB I suggested on the last page for some ideas of tools. Fox may have better ones. The main thing is to run tools that apply in more bad matchups, instead of going 4x narrow GY hate + 4x narrow storm hate like a linear aggro deck.

    Powder Keg - kills Chalice @ 1, 8-cast artifact lands & 0s, Elves, Goblins, D&T dorks, token swarm, Ensnaring Bridge

    Surgical Extraction - Reanimator, Loam, Hogaak, Uro, random combos (extract wincon), decks with bad mana (Stifle/Waste + extract fetch or dual)
    It works against the main graveyard decks, but isn't a dead draw like Leyline and it has utility against other decks too.

    Return to Nature - Chalice @ 1, Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, Loam, Reanimator, OmniTell

    Run Afoul - Murktide, Marit Lage, Griselbrand, Archon, Emrakul, DRC... basically every Tier 1 creature that could race you. Also answers flash Ice-Fang Coatl before it can kill Dreadnought/Bane. Not joking about this card. Underrated tech for UG.

    Back to Basics (if you clean up your manabase) - Lands, 12Post, Eldrazi, MUD, greedy Saga+Tomb decks, greedy multicolor decks

    Then you need some slots for removal-heavy fair midrange. Fox may have some ideas for UG.

  4. #284
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    So first things first, you don't get to play the two best green cards [Endurance, FoV] with this low of a green count. The suggestions made by @FTW would all be improvements, except for B2B b/c every deck you'd want it against plays Boseju, Who Shatters All. It would be like playing Skylasher as your "answer" to Murktide, when you know it already failed b/c they play Bolt. Return to Nature is pretty good as a replacement for FoV.

    The main thing I would do is never play flying Augur of Bolas as my "answer" to flying Goyf. Ledger Shredder is not good enough for this format, and the only people who can disguise that simple fact have a stack of red blasts in their SB and usually have a playset of DRC on top of that. Go one step further and realize they aren't using this card selection to get 1-shot by a 1cmc creature kill spell. It's not a playable card in Dreadnought, and I would extend that to the entire format were it not for the fact that Goyf dies to Pyroblast...for now.

    The very first thing this deck needs isn't SB tuning, but rather the maindeck needs to go back to auto-winning vs Delver, and green just isn't going to do that. Ice-Fang looks better vs Murktide...except that they just discard Bolt and you still take 8...and this doesn't really help your win condition (combat damage). You're also not built to use the 1cmc 3/4 Goyf [Reclaimer]. You kinda missed all the reasons to play green, just to add Uro (and push the mana beyond the point of no return). Luckily you didn't sink $2400 into Trops for this.

    The fix for these StifleNought lists is always going to be "just play UR Dreadstill". We have DRC, we have 1 card delirium (Saga find suicide Nought), we get SDT 2.0 (aka Currency Converter), we have Lavamancer, we can get permanents down on 1 mana, we can win without combat step, both DRC and Lavamancer synergize with Bane, our mana is better, we get to spam red blasts, Delver is a bye, etc...

    The best thing you can do with UG is going to have to be something unique. The only thing that has looked interesting here for the last two years is the core of Reclaimer, Uro, GSZ + Lotus Field + Nissa/Karn + the green density to run FoV/Endurance with Nought. The issue is that green is so bad at interacting that you're better off running 2x Verdict (white mana only coming off Lotus), and pitching it to FoW/FoN otherwise. It is quite fun however to hit people with 5/5 hexproof while opponents never stop trying to Wasteland or Port it.

    ^now contrast that level of synergy where we're able to tutor Lotus Field, immediately have 3 lands in GY (assuming we activated Reclaimer or a single Fetch), dump it in for free off Uro trigger (generate escape fuel), get to 2 lands quicker with a GSZ for Arbor...and all of that to cast our PWs which make 5/5 hexproofs, have GY recursion loops (Nissa), have SB/exile recursion loops (Karn). Now you just add Nought and Stifle and you're adding in the ability to cheat Lotus Field into play, you gain win % vs combo, and Karn + Nought stuff is immune to Surgical. What exactly is there for opponents to interact favorably with, when this is just and endless stream of interchangeable combo pieces? Now compare that to just adding Uro to gift opponents easy axis of attacking your mana and/or kill spelling. Stop giving opponents easy targets.

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