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Thread: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

  1. #481
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    That looks like a Fox build. For a whole bunch of design reasons from Lavamancer, Phyrexian Furnace, Spikefield Hazard, the 2nd Otawara, Shark Typhoon, SB Ashiok, SB Staticaster, SB Powder Keg, the (correct) basic-heavy manabase, only 2 Saga.

    @Fox, is that your list? Did you donate it or guide the pilot?
    Have you cut Standstill due to the unfavorable meta (bad vs Initiative & Saga & spell lands) and replaced it with Mycosynth?

  2. #482
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    That looks like a Fox build. For a whole bunch of design reasons from Lavamancer, Phyrexian Furnace, Spikefield Hazard, the 2nd Otawara, Shark Typhoon, SB Ashiok, SB Staticaster, SB Powder Keg, the (correct) basic-heavy manabase, only 2 Saga.

    @Fox, is that your list? Did you donate it or guide the pilot?
    Have you cut Standstill due to the unfavorable meta (bad vs Initiative & Saga & spell lands) and replaced it with Mycosynth?
    This is my list, and I am the pilot. As stated above, this is a 4-1 into 5-0 and the VoDs are on my twitch. Standstill will come back in once people realize Mycosynth Gardens is a Dreadnought and LED-only card, and stop spamming Saga so much. The hype is dying down online and people are moving into their Tomb-spam phase; this will continue until they realize SnS will out-Tomb them. In the next week or two I'll add Standstill back into the deck with 2x Alpine Moon in the board. Until then it's like deciding to play Elves/Goblins right after the release of Plague Engi.

    The CA is mostly covered by Currency Converter and Furnace, and the ability to copy them with Mycosynth. Standstill is unlikely to return as a 4x. The most likely slots to be cut are Brainstorm #4, DRC #4, Stifle #3, or Currency #2. When people Tomb, they Chalice - which is why we cut from the 1-drops.

    At least for the moment, Delver decks are over-spamming Misstep; a practice that will speed up re-addition of Standstill...but I doubt they're going to be able to sustain this practice given how prevalent Tomb is.

  3. #483

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Kant View Post
    I dont even know how to go about finding the optimal version of this list considering how many different ways dressnought can be built.
    It's a brand new meta, we're going to see a lot of new sub optimal stuff show up and that's the process. Take what you like, kick out what you don't.

  4. #484
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    This is my list, and I am the pilot. As stated above, this is a 4-1 into 5-0 and the VoDs are on my twitch. Standstill will come back in once people realize Mycosynth Gardens is a Dreadnought and LED-only card, and stop spamming Saga so much. The hype is dying down online and people are moving into their Tomb-spam phase; this will continue until they realize SnS will out-Tomb them. In the next week or two I'll add Standstill back into the deck with 2x Alpine Moon in the board. Until then it's like deciding to play Elves/Goblins right after the release of Plague Engi.

    The CA is mostly covered by Currency Converter and Furnace, and the ability to copy them with Mycosynth. Standstill is unlikely to return as a 4x. The most likely slots to be cut are Brainstorm #4, DRC #4, Stifle #3, or Currency #2. When people Tomb, they Chalice - which is why we cut from the 1-drops.

    At least for the moment, Delver decks are over-spamming Misstep; a practice that will speed up re-addition of Standstill...but I doubt they're going to be able to sustain this practice given how prevalent Tomb is.
    Nice result. 9-1! Sounds like it fits the current meta well.

    When Standstill goes back in, is DRC really the cut? As long as Initiative and Saga are popular (it will decline but still see play), a turn 1 creature really helps Standstill. Even if 1 cmc is bad vs Chalice and Misstep. Keeping either DRC or Currency seems big to not have Standstill backfire or be dead.

  5. #485
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Nice result. 9-1! Sounds like it fits the current meta well.

    When Standstill goes back in, is DRC really the cut? As long as Initiative and Saga are popular (it will decline but still see play), a turn 1 creature really helps Standstill. Even if 1 cmc is bad vs Chalice and Misstep. Keeping either DRC or Currency seems big to not have Standstill backfire or be dead.
    Currently testing Standstill in Brainstorm 4's and Currency 2's slots, since Mycosynth (and thus excessive Saga use) is dropping off. Something to keep in mind when adding Standstill is the blue count; kinda need to increase it if possible. As far as flooding goes, I'm not too worried about it with ~1% odds of 2x in opening hand vs odds on 6x Force effects. I do like having Standstill back in the deck with a Noxious as backup mode Vamp Tutor in the side. Shuffler today was closer to a realistic representation of how statistics work (second league). VoD is up with a 3-2 (no Standstill) and another 4-1 (with Standstill).

    In leagues, expect to get Chalice'd, Moon'd, and removal spammed between lucky combo pairings. Very bad time to be playing with untrustworthy mana and no ability to get on board early. Also on the uptick are DnT and removal-based Depths (GW). Very poor choice to run 3c, even in combo-flooded leagues.

  6. #486
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    ThrabenU plays GreaterGood Nought: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSsWSdQu1zc


    //Lands: 22
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Tropical Island
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Bayou
    1 Twilight Mire
    1 Snow-Covered Forest
    1 Snow-Covered Island
    2 Boseiju, Who Endures
    1 Wasteland
    1 The Mycosynth Gardens

    //Creatures: 11
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    2 Hunted Horror
    4 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
    1 Endurance

    //Spells: 18
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Minor Misstep
    1 Abrupt Decay
    2 Snuff Out

    //Enchantments: 7
    4 Dress Down
    3 Greater Good

    //Artifacts: 2
    2 Torpor Orb

    //Sideboard: 15
    2 Crop Rotation
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Karakas
    2 Veil of Summer
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Hydroblast
    1 Force of Negation
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Carpet of Flowers
    1 Force of Vigor
    2 Null Rod


    Deck went 3-2

    There are some very questionable design choices. Staying in BUG I would cut:
    -Twilight Mire
    -Torpor Orb + Hunted Horror (maybe keep 1 Orb max)
    -Crop Rotation Package including Wasteland

    Add:
    +2 Endurance
    +2 Gardens
    +1 Decay
    +1 Thoughtseize
    +1 FoV SB
    +1 Soul-Guide Lantern SB
    +1 Carpet SB
    +1 Trophy SB

    Another option would be to cut black and play white for Swords and PEnding.

  7. #487

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Babua, very cool list. Though it seems greater good is the superior green card draw enchantment to sylvan library.

    Thraben Uís list would be far better without hunted horror. Would rather play a Hymn or the 3rd Thoughtseize or an Oppo Agent or Baleful Strix or Mental Misstep or Endurance or Stifle or Murktide instead. But its great that he 4-1ed with a list playing Hunted Horror in 2023 legacy.


    Not sure if 3 Greater Good is excessive, 2 might suffice. Torpor Orb might make more sense in the Sideboard with Stifle filling in instead. Crop Rotation and the 2nd Flusterstorm seems like sideboard slots that could be cut for Torpor Orb.


    Also, trying to figure out why the deck would sideboard Null Rod instead of Ouphe.

  8. #488
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Only 3-2 not 4-1, right?

    Rounds 1 and 2 are very interesting.

    UWr control is usually a terrible matchup for Stiflenought. But 0 Stifles + Greater Good tech and Uro recursion provided the card draw needed to go over the top and win the grind. If the deck didn't have so many duds (Hunted Horror & Twilight Mire especially) and he didn't make some questionable plays, round 1 is theoretically winnable. Winning vs UWr is one of the bigger arguments in favor for playing Greater Good. They can't Prismatic Ending or Blast a 4 CMC green enchantment, so if they don't Force it they're stuck letting you draw 12.

    It's probably better to maindeck only 2 Greater Good. Put 3rd in SB to bring in for grindy matchups.

  9. #489
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Monocolorless Depthsnought splashing UB: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UaABGeIjPU

    Donated Deck:

    //Lands: 26
    4 Dark Depths
    4 Thespian's Stage
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Urza's Saga
    3 The Mycosynth Gardens
    2 Mana Confluence
    1 Otawara, Soaring City

    //Artifacts: 19
    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Mox Opal
    2 Chalice of the Void
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Shadowspear
    1 Expedition Map
    1 Torpor Orb
    2 Wishclaw Talisman

    //Creatures: 8
    3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Vampire Hexmage
    1 Lazav, the Multifarious

    //Spells: 7
    2 Stifle
    1 Trickbind
    1 Profane Tutor
    3 Not of This World

    //Sideboard: 15
    3 Crop Rotation
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Karakas
    1 Sejiri Steppe
    1 Sylvan Safekeeper
    3 Deafening Silence
    2 Hydroblast
    2 Fatal Push
    1 Faerie Macabre


    This looks like a hot mess. Random 1-ofs. Minimal card selection. Low threat density. Less than maximum Dreadnoughts. Greedy multicolor splashes on flimsy mana. Nonbos.

    I would probably cut that to monoblack and make it more focused.

    Phil ended up doing that:

    //Lands: 27
    4 Dark Depths
    4 Thespian's Stage
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Urza's Saga
    4 The Mycosynth Gardens
    4 Bayou
    3 Cavern of Souls

    //Artifacts: 17
    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    2 Mox Opal
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Shadowspear
    1 Expedition Map
    4 Torpor Orb

    //Creatures: 8
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Vampire Hexmage

    //Spells: 8
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Not of This World

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Sudden Edict
    2 Plague Engineer
    2 Inquisition of Kozilek
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Emrkaul, the Aeons Torn


    It looks a lot more focused but still high variance with redundant draws. That came up in matches.

    4 Expedition Map and maybe Karn tGC would help focus the deck, like 3.5 card Monte.

  10. #490

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    What were the records?

  11. #491
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    What were the records?
    Edit: Deck went 1-4
    Deck was too high variance to do anything. Needs more card selection.

    Should be at 4x Expedition Map to assemble Depths. Maybe 4x Karn, the Great Creator or Serum Powder too. Otherwise you're just rolling the dice on random variance getting you there. He had hands with multiple Hexmage + Stage with 0 Depths, for example. Or 3 Torpor Orb + Depths with 0 Dreadnought and 0 Depths enablers. Or Mycosynth Gardens + Dark Depths + bad artifact to copy (Petal or Legendary), failing at both combos and giving multiple dead cards. The deck has a too high % of "lose to yourself" draws.

    Mox Opal was too inconsistent to make mana, without more cheap artifacts.

    Scroll of Fate seems better than Torpor Orb maindeck, because it actually has text when you don't have Dreadnought. You can turn extra mana into threats.

  12. #492

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    They didn't run it back with the changes?

  13. #493
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    They didn't run it back with the changes?
    They only ran with changes. Original list is a hot pile. Don't know who brewed it but Phil didn't want to play with original. Posted both to show the idea.

    My variance comments are about the 2nd deck.

  14. #494

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    They only ran with changes. Original list is a hot pile. Don't know who brewed it but Phil didn't want to play with original. Posted both to show the idea.

    My variance comments are about the 2nd deck.
    Ah

  15. #495
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Maybe this would be an improvement.

    Nought Of This World

    //Lands: 28
    4 Dark Depths
    4 Thespian's Stage
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Urza's Saga
    4 The Mycosynth Gardens
    4 Bayou
    2 Nurturing Peatland
    2 Boseiju, Who Endures

    //Artifacts: 16
    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Expedition Map
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Torpor Orb
    1 Scroll of Fate

    //Creatures: 8
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Vampire Hexmage

    //Spells: 8
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Crop Rotation

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Wasteland
    1 Karakas
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    4 Sphere of Resistance
    3 Assassin's Trophy
    2 Toxic Deluge
    2 Not of This World


    This might still be bad, but now there are 8x maindeck tutors (+4 Saga to help find Map) for Stage-Depths instead of 1. The same tutors can set up Saga-Gardens for uncounterable Dreadnought.

    Postboard those same tutors find Bojuka Bog (GY hate), Wasteland (kill enemy Karakas/Maze), or Karakas (vs other fatty combos).

    The other SB choices are because I think fair 1-for-1 answers (discard, Edict) are not what the deck needs. You can't trade 1-for-1 and expect to get anywhere when 60% of the deck is land/mana. Playing that game, you will always fall short on interaction and lose. SB slots are better used aiming to shut off entire strategies.

  16. #496

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    If you're already on hexmage, maybe a battle?

  17. #497
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    If you're already on hexmage, maybe a battle?
    Yeah. Invasion of Ikoria seems good because it can tutor Hexmage into play to either make a 20/20 or an 8/8. The 8/8 even makes Marit Lage have the Thorn Elemental "unblockable" clause.

  18. #498

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    I played magic Friday.

    //Threats
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    3 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
    3 Fury
    2 scroll of fate
    1 subtlety
    1 sicarian infiltrator
    2 Minsc and Boo, Timeless Heroes
    //Spells
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Stifle
    4 Force of WIll
    4 Lightning Bolt
    //Land
    4 Dress Down
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Misty Rainforest
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Breeding Pool
    1 Volcanic Island
    2 Steam Vents
    2 Wasteland
    2 Island
    1 Mountain
    1 Snow-Covered Forest

    //Sideboard
    3 Leyline of the Void
    2 Veil of Summer
    1 Force of Negation
    1 test of talents
    2 Brotherhood's End
    3 Leyline of Sanctity
    3 Run Afoul

    3-1, lost round one and then took the next three
    1-2 ur delver. Lost game one and three, both on the draw with a dreadnought on the table. I always forget they have a bunch of bolts and you need to be careful when fetch shocking. It is a mu where your life total matters.
    2-0 bye. Ty for your service, odd number of players.
    2-0 UW stone blade, G1 I stuck a scroll and just spammed 2/2s. G2 minsc. The goal was just to keep the stone forges from cheating a kaldra into play and without them they're just faffing about with no pressure. So just wait it out and things will be fine.
    2-0 Doomsday G1 I drew well: wasteland for their one land, Stifle for their next one, a second stifle for their force on the first, and then a force of my own on the second force. Then a dreadnought. G2 Subtlety defeated the cavern/Sheoldred they tried as a backup plan.

    What did we learn: sometimes you just don't need to represent a Stifle, because I can't afford the full duals. Luv the deck, can't wait to put it down for drifter in a week or whenever.
    Last edited by FourDogsinaHorseSuit; 05-14-2023 at 10:27 PM.

  19. #499
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Nice results. Scroll of Fate and M&B are both strong against UW. The Stifle/Dress Down side is strong against Doomsday.

    How was the 1 Sicarian Infiltrator?

    Too bad against UR. That's where the shocklands bite you. It's a good thing you're not playing Daze, or they'd hurt even more. Could you play just 1 of each shock and then replace the other two with some other type of land (-1 Steam Vents, -1 Breeding Pool, +2 other lands)? With 2 Steam Vents 2 Breeding Pool you're really hurting yourself in any aggro or Lightning Bolt matchup.
    Last edited by FTW; 05-08-2023 at 09:39 PM.

  20. #500

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Sample Size n=1 games I cast it once, it drew two cards, and I won the game anyways. It helped that it was a card I could play proactively, but I am unsure it was the best card I could have played in the slot.

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