That's a large event top 8! 226 players.
Curie + Tamiyo instead of Thrull + Nulldrifter, otherwise the same UW shell.
Also interesting to see what else made top 8:
4x UBx Force of Frog (fair card is fair)
2x colorless Fleshraker decks (Eldrazi, Mystic Forge)
1x Cradle Control (8 Reclaimer + Nantuko)
Post MH3 meta.
@Fox: TombNought Challenge Top 8
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=58575&d=638363&f=LE
4x counter target Eldrazi/Bauble
8Stifle+Parallax Tide is hilarious tech
Exile 5 lands, upkeep Stifle, go.
Damn, that is such a cool list. Its awesome that its monoblue.
I see every reason to cut an Island for an Otawara, Soaring City.
I would also want to play 2 maindeck Harbinger of the Seas to maximize the synergy with Parrallax Tide. Not sure what to cut to make room. I also really want to add atleast 1 Tamiyo
-1 Island
+1 Otawara, Soaring City
-1 Wasteland/Ancient Tomb
-1 Dress Down/Daze
-1 Dreadnought
+1/2 Tamiyo
+1/2 Harbinger of the Seas
+0/1 Brazen Borrower
Last edited by Jander78; 09-24-2024 at 12:30 PM.
BUG Dreadnought tech: https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=59246&d=643828&f=LE
Back on Uro and no Thrulls, so there are no threats that can be stolen/Reanimated. Uro's also great against all the Thoughtseize decks.
Black is just for Fatal Push & SB Sudden Edict, Toxic Deluge, Opposition Agent. Those seem worse than white for Swords to Plowshares, Prismatic Ending and SB Wrath of the Skies. Maybe black is to bluff that they're a Frog deck, so opponent misboards. Pyroblast and Fatal Push are a lot worse against Uro than Frog!
Black is only worth splashing for Thoughseize as a way to clear the path for your Dreadnought. But I vastly prefer UW and UWg lists with a light green splash for Uro.
Here is the list that Im having success with right now…
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tundra
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Meticulous Archive
1 Sink into Stupor
1 Brazen Borrower
3 Doorkeeper Thrull
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Nulldrifter
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Dress Down
4 FoW
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshare
1 Cosign to Memory
Consign is very useful in the current meta where as Doorkeeper Thrull while relevant against several matchups is never a card that I want to see 2 copies of and doesnt even pitch to Force.
Re Fox:
Stiflenought is not a competitive strategy
MTGO Results are small-event flukes
3c mana is unstable
CurieNought is not viable, discarding 3 cards
BoshNRoll is not a good Dreadnought player
something something Dreadstill
...
The new wave of cards has debunked all that. Blue has strong CA at 1-2 cmc. Standstill is outclassed in this meta (either by better draw engines or threats that get under it). Meta favors playing maindeck Dreadnought enablers (Consign).
Esper Dreadnought Top 8 Eternal Weekend Europe (832 players)
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=62405&d=670726&f=LE
BoshNRoll Tournament Report:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWzUp9Y_xLw
Decklist
//Lands: 20
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Meticulous Archive
1 Island
1 Otawara, Soaring City
3 Wasteland
//Creatures: 13
3 Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student
2 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Psychic Frog
2 Curie, Emergent Intelligence
2 Abhorrent Oculus
//Spells: 25
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thoughtseize
2 Stifle
2 Consign to Memory
3 Daze
1 Lórien Revealed
//Enchantments: 2
2 Dress Down
//Sideboard: 15
3 Hydroblast
2 Consign to Memory
2 Prismatic Ending
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Containment Priest
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
1 Court of Grace
2 Barrowgoyf
Holy shit.
An active threat on the source popped up in my search about Dreadnaught it’s 2005 all over again.
That being said, one placement does not make a deck viable. The dreadnought lists are getting better and better and should take a step forward post bans Monday. Curie is super cool as an ophidian that can straight up with the game as a 12/12 that can draw a million and is great in helping the deck have no bad cards.
The issues I have been running into is what to do with NullDrifter and how to win matchups where doorkeeper thrull
Is kind of a dead card. Curie kind of eliminates both issues and I already have them ordered to try in a post frog world.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
It's not just 1 placement. That's Top 8 of Eternal Weekend (800+ players).
Stiflenought is 3% of the Legacy meta on MTG Top 8, the 2nd most successful "control" deck (should be tempo):
https://www.mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=85&meta=34&f=LE
This all makes sense since the format has degenerated to a bunch of combo decks and aggro, with low control/midrange presence. Stiflenought is good against combo and tempo but bad against control and midrange.
Nulldrifter and Thrull seem suboptimal in this meta though. Thrull is very bad vs Reanimate (they steal your Dreadnoughts).
So if they ban Reanimate or Entomb on Monday, this deck goes up a tier? That would be fun to finally see this deck at Tier One.
Thought literally every single time boshnroll plays this deck on youtube, he goes 5-0 or 4-1 and makes the deck seem tier one. Bosh is just a NoughtHead at heart I guess.
When was this purge?
Anyway it's relevant for any newer Dreadnought player reading thread history. There are a lot of pages advising this strategy doesn't work. Recent results show it does.
@CaptainHammer: Hard to say. If the new meta has less Reanimator, then Thrull and Nulldrifter get better. But if the new meta is less combo-heavy and control bounces back, then Dreadnought overall gets worse.
And we don't even know what they'll ban. Frog is likely. Entomb/Reanimate? Maybe not. Bauble? Maybe. Fleshraker or Nadu? Less likely. The meta may still be full of Reanimator, Nadu and Forge/Eldrazi.
But... but... but that's horrible!
I'd very much like to help him (and any other legitimate user that we lost due to collateral damage inflicted by any anti-spam measures) get back on The Source, if possible. My mail for that pupose is c0l0@gmx.at - please drop me a line there (or send me a PM in the forums, if you still can) if you were affected, or know someone who was and who would like to be brought back.
Thanks.
Haven't played legacy in like 6 months or so and you're still up to this content-bereft nonsense.
Legacy just isn't all that interesting when wotc continues to mismanage 1/5th of the color pie and make the kill spell and artifact kill color (red), fail to accomplish it's entire purpose. The Psychic Frog stuff was particularly stupid vs Lightning Bolt. The indestructible text on Kaldra, particularly after deciding to protect illegitimate game objects (tokens) from phasing, certainly didn't help things. Still got this x/4 Nadu nonsense going on. So legacy still has this 5c game with only 4 functional colors issue, and then we continue to see the same tired failure to address the Black Lotus + Timetwister issue (Echo), and the revisiting of tired nonsense of 2 mana end-the-game enchantments (CB -> Beanstalk) and periods where for some inexplicable reason we're revisiting double discard on turn 0 (Probe/Therapy -> Grief). It's not really a functional format when you're both down a color and have diversity-crippling nonsense.
"Fox is a mess. Fox is a waste." into "You still have the reading comprehension of a child. Go back to your hole." Pretty sure I'm not missing anything in the reading comprehension department. All I see is a little troll who decided to click submit on some moronic post to smear a player who hasn't touched magic in like 6 months. Maybe next time just don't submit pointless nonsense like this.
Same tired invitation as always: Add content bud.
Ran into a Stiflenought deck playing some UWr Standstill today for fun. Didn't go well for them, but they were trying to play 4c with Hierarchs in some Yorion shell; probably had Beanstalk since they had Leyline Binding. Pretty consistently found themselves running a 4-5 card in hand deficit. The Consign to Memory stuff was cute, but without the ability to attack mana with Stifle I just played lands and didn't play into Daze nor have to pitch-cast FoW. Given the lack of credible threat at 1 mana, I just did the thing I was already doing - playing lands and waiting. I guess Consign picks up some points vs Chalice/Karn/Ring/Eldrazi + cast trigger, and may very rarely stop an LED into Echo, but you are losing a lot of points vs control and midrange (incorrectly classified as control, e.g. Blade, Uro, Bean, Strix/Hymn, UWr soup).
Notably the card does combo with Standstill, where at the 2 mana mark you can cast into your own Standstill to prevent hostile Saga from gaining construct ability while using the replicate trigger stacking to keep Standstill in play. At higher mana counts you can cast threat into Standstill, Consign that trigger and target the replicate at the trigger made by Consign. AP/NAP order shouldn't matter if the Consign is cast by the Standstill controller. Dreadstill is the natural direction testing should first go, if going hard on Consign over Stifle.
So @Fourdogs, maybe focus more on things like mechanics, selecting Dreadnought tech that fundamentally synergizes with a CA suite, and has favorable interactions vs the mirror's CA suite (i.e. naw I'll counter your Mulldrifter and the draw 2 with 1 card, but like it was cool that the Mulldrifter user wanted the evoke/draw2/Consign the evoke sacrifice trigger stuff). So you want to then maybe try your hand at some second level analysis and think about how to address known deficits (like not getting on board on turn 1 despite being "tempo" and using Daze) and addressing problem matchups in a different way (CA).
Don't get me wrong, analysis like that is harder than your mindless personal attack posts; but like I saw the Consign card <1 day ago and the theory bit is already solved - the highest synergy CA engine is just that obvious. Maybe try harder man? Like wasn't this set released June 2024; I feel like you've had time to come up with something. Looking forward to your next troglodyte attack post completely absent of substance. Who knows, maybe you'll surprise us all with something of substance.
You haven't played in a while so you probably didn't notice that the Legacy meta devolved into 40-50% combo and < 15% control/midrange for the last 3 months.
Not just Leagues, but also Challenges and large paper tournaments. At Eternal Weekend Asia & North America, only combo decks posted 53%+ win rate (Mystic Forge, Nadu, Reanimator, Breakfast, Doomsday). Control/midrange was borderline unplayable, sub-50% win rate and negligible top 8 presence.
Maindeck Consign is strong against colorless decks (Mystic Forge, Eldrazi), triggered ability combo decks (Thassa, Storm), and red artifact decks (Moon Stompy and Red Painter were both common). Consign also countered Vexing Bauble in decks trying to keep you off Force/Daze. Consign gained a lot of points in top matchups, and cost points against decks that were not making top brackets anyway. It was an auto 4-of in most blue decks (in SB), Dreadnought got to maindeck some for better game 1s.
In that degenerate combo-aggro meta, you 100% wanted to be on Daze instead of Standstill. Especially with proactive CA at 1-2 mana: Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student, Psychic Frog, 2-mana Ophidian 5&6 (Curie). Dreadnought could finally solve the CA problem below 3 mana (Uro/Nulldrifter) without playing Standstill, and synergizing better with Daze.
Now with Frog & Bauble banned, fair decks are coming back and combo is losing meta share, and Dreadnought can't lean on Frog as card draw. But Tamiyo is still a great way to get on board turn 1! Nethergoyf and Abhorrent Oculus also exist. Tempo Dreadnought can get on board faster than it used to.
4c Yorion Stiflenought Beans looks like a player error... Dreadnought is bad with Yorion, bad with Beans, and worse in 80-card. Look at the Stiflenought builds that have been posting results.
I think a lot of those paths are pretty suspect. If you go Uro for CA, you run Goyf into basically every SB (GY hate). If you go for Nulldrifter, you're stuck waiting for other blue decks to stop over-slotting Consign. If you choose Tamiyo, you're getting hit by Bowmancer and Karakas; also you'll increasingly run into Bolt...but WotC hasn't really woken up and realized they need red to be able to kill creatures. They still need to ban 5 toughness landcycle Troll and Nadu...otherwise we've basically reached the point where they need to reprint Bolt to say: deal 8 to target creature or 3 damage to any other target + damage exiles Kaldra token. If WotC fixes the "we're missing the 5th color" issue, it will be hard when we add Bolt to the list of things Tamiyo needs to not be paired against. If WotC messes up the ban and continues to careen towards needing to print super-Bolt, Tamiyo would similarly need to be avoided.
I guess you play Tamiyo for the next 3 months, hoping Nadu and Troll keep Bolt out of the format, and obligatorily play Bowmancer to protect Tamiyo from Bowmancer. Then if WotC correctly bans Nadu and Troll (they'll bungle this one since they are looking at Entomb/Reanimate)...and Consign use falls off enough (meaning the ban also has to hit Eldrazi land kill guy), then swap Tamiyo back to Nulldrifter and hope to dodge the 4x Consign Nought mirror. With Tamiyo, it also needs to be pointed out that you basically have to have a mana up and a Brainstorm in hand to have a reasonable shot at a good outcome with Tamiyo in battlefield zone. Chalice is coming back, so Tamiyo has that issue lingering as well in a deck with cantrip cartel and Nought.
The other question with Tamiyo is why you wouldn't just basically cheat and play Echo. Turn 0 mana -> Tamiyo -> LED -> Echo (trigger, enemy kill spells offline) -> uptick city -> threaten to draw half your deck in a few turns and win with whatever? Why are you messing with Nought when you could be playing 2 banned cards: Black Lotus and pick one of the following: Timetwister/Wheel/Memory Jar/Winfall; all while removing your opponent's ability to keep a hand of their choosing? Feels like you're working too hard by playing Tamiyo with Nought; they don't really share any tech, and Tamiyo doesn't exactly pull interaction away from Nought (Karakas, Bowmancer, and Bolt are not well known for their Dreadnought-stopping ability).
Uro is old tech. I meant the newer tech (Tamiyo, Curie, Frog) allowed CA at 1-2 mana proactive plays, fitting better with the tempo plan, instead of the older 3 mana tech. Most players have been off Uro for a while.
Nulldrifter was bad in the recent meta (Reanimate steals, high rate of Consigns). Oculus is a better 3-mana plan: 5/5 flying, manifests Dreadnought, source of CA.
Tamiyo's seen a lot of play (UB Tempo, etc) and proven its value. Granted Bolt was deleted from the format for a few months. But it's still seeing play now even with more Bolts around post-Frog. Tamiyo doesn't need to flip, combo with Echo, or even have Brainstorm up. You can often play it into removal. Then they have less removal for your bigger plays (Dreadnought, Oculus). UB Tempo used the same principle very effectively to draw removal from Psychic Frog.
One of Tamiyo's advantages is the tension it creates. As a 1-mana curve out into a bigger threat, they don't want to waste removal on it. But if they don't, then the CA spirals out of control. If it's removed, you only lost 1 card and 1 mana. Opponent doesn't know if you have Brainstorm next turn, have a followup threat, have extra Tamiyos in hand, or kept a weak hand relying on the CA. It puts them into making suboptimal decisions. This play does work better when they're on removal that answers both Tamiyo & Dreadnought (Fatal Push, Swords) than when they use separate answers (RUG's Bolt + Meltdown/Consign).
Bowmasters is not that bad. If Bowman is on board, don't Brainstorm or Brainstorm on their turn (APNAP flips Tamiyo first). If they keep 1B open all game to trap you, just attack and make clues, let them mana deny themselves vs a Daze+Stifle+Wasteland deck while you EOT crack clues.
Echo decks don't really need Tamiyo's slow grind to win. LED+Echo has also had a very small meta presence: walked into Reanimator hate, Vexing Bauble, Painter's red blasts, Bowmasters, Psychic Frog. It might start making a comeback. TonyScapone won a recent Challenge with TEG. But his Legendary creature or choice is Birgi, not Tamiyo.
Last edited by FTW; 01-03-2025 at 09:03 AM.
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