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Thread: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

  1. #161
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    I can't believe I'm somehow in the position of having to say "maybe play with one of the best two drop selection spells ever printed" to you.
    There is a difference between flipping over the top 3 cards of a deck and seeing three 1-card combos, and flipping over the top 3 and seeing a bunch of Stifles and Dress Downs with nothing to enable. Now lets follow our "best two drop selection spell" as we do not get to pull both of the things to hand. We've already blown 2 mana at sorcery speed, now we need to blow 2 more to spam a Dress Down (nothing to enable, nor the mana left to do it) so that we can keep the Stifle in hand instead of shipping it to exile. Now the opponent gets to untap, draw a card, and make a land drop - and now you have to draw through a deck with Stifle and Daze...and you took the turn off to go nowhere. Now you go into every following turn even less likely to generate a favorable trade with Daze or Stifle...but who knows, maybe that Dress Down off Iteration found a 12/12, so let's Stifle that one into play (after the Iteration turn) and pass - nothing could possibly go wrong; they definitely won't have a 1 mana Daze-proof answer for it...

    Normal legacy is built on playing 1-card combos, so if you can get 1 card to become 2 you've made progress...but in a StifleNought deck, you have a much higher threshold for that Iteration to generate progress. It is highly unlikely that you will flip over a 12/12 + the enabler...and it is also highly unlikely that even if you did flip those over, that you would also have the mana to do the thing on that turn before losing either piece A or piece B to exile forever. You'd actually be rather all-in on your opponent offering you a beneficial trade of a flipped Wasteland vs their nonbasic; because any time you don't get that, the Daze and Stifle stuff plods on towards irrelevance...and you have to draw through that chaff. This is all at the same time as the game plan is investing 2 cards to make a 12/12...so where exactly is the card quantity coming from for FoW? This is a strategic problem, largely created by not getting on board at 1cmc.

    There are oh so many cards you cannot take with you through an Iteration if you are playing StifleNought. That's why it's crappy CA. There's a ton of cards you can't just fire off simply b/c you flipped them with the "best two drop selection spell." Add those 8 slots of Stifle and Dreadnought to the 4 of Daze and 4 of FoW and 4 of Dress Down and the remaining lands. This is so many combinations of slots lurking on the top of the deck just waiting to keep Iteration from even just generating CA [completely ignoring the strategic problems].

  2. #162

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Cards you can Just Fire Off in the posted list:
    2 Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger (SLD) 225
    2 Murktide Regent (MH2) 337
    2 Expressive Iteration (STX) 379
    4 Ponder (NCC) 229
    4 Brainstorm (AFC) 79
    4 Lightning Bolt (STA) 42
    1 Scroll of Fate (C19) 58
    4 Dress Down (MH2) 334
    1 Badlands (NON) 0
    4 Polluted Delta (ZNE) 2
    4 Scalding Tarn (MH2) 439
    1 Snow-Covered Island (KHM) 279
    2 Underground Sea (NON) 0
    3 Volcanic Island (NON) 0
    4 Wasteland (ZNE) 30

    So 31? (since you can't cast it and flip it)

  3. #163
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    That's an older version. The Challenge list I posted was based on it and cut the Iterations.

    It's a tough spot because Dreadnought needs card draw but Iteration is such bad tempo when you're playing Stifle + Wasteland + Daze (Iteration is basically a dead card till turn 5ish). Running only 2 Iteration compromises between those two risks, but it's awkward.

    Unlike Fox, I've actually played Expressive Iteration a lot in UR Delver and some brews. To get the "draw 2" you need one of the following:
    1) Haven't played a land yet this turn
    2) Cast Iteration with 1-2 other lands open and a lot of proactive 1 cmc plays in the deck
    If you can't do one of those, it becomes a really bad Ponder (UR - Sorcery - Put 1 of top 3 cards in hand, get rid of the rest)

    With Ragavan you could do #1 on turn 2, which made Iteration amazing. T1 Ragavan, Force their play, attack with Ragavan for Treasure, cast Iteration, recover lost blue card from FoW and play land from top 3. It snowballed almost as much as Ragavan + Daze. That meant Iteration was good early and good late. It gave the deck velocity without clogging up hands.

    In theory you can do #1 on turn 3 without Ragavan. Don't play a 3rd land, tap out for Iteration, play 3rd land from exile. That's fine on paper. But in practice it's harder to do in a tempo deck. If you pick up a land for Daze, that slows down Iteration 1 turn. If you use a Wasteland, that slows down Iteration 1 turn. If you want to play around opponent's Daze on Iteration, that slows down Iteration 1 turn. If you need to hold up 1 Volc for instant interaction (REB, Stifle, Brainstorm), that slows down Iteration 1 turn. Tempo Stiflenought wants to use disruption like Daze, Wasteland and Stifle in the early turns... so it becomes hard to actually play that land from exile until later in the game.

    What about #2? UR Ragavan had 10 1cmc creatures + 8 cantrips + 4 bolts as proactive plays on 1 mana. If you cast Iteration on 3 lands, you could cast one of those from exile and maintain tempo. Grixis Stiflenought has no 1 mana threats (Dreadnought doesn't count), so it only has the cantrips and Bolts as 1 mana plays, and they're not as proactive as putting a creature on the battlefield. Tapping out for Iteration into Ponder is much less proactive than Iteration into DRC/Delver. (Although honestly I don't understand why Stiflenought is not running 4x DRC when Dreadnought & Dress Down make Delirium much easier)

    With Iteration on 4 lands you could also cast Dress Down (probably wasted), Kroxa, or Murktide. That allows more proactive plays. But it takes at least 4 lands in a deck that is losing land drops to Daze and Wasteland.

    Basically in a deck with Stifle + Wasteland + Daze, you are not tapping out for turn 3 Iteration. You have to wait until much later. It's a dead card early game and only a draw 2 late game. Iteration is amazing in the right deck, but everything Stiflenought is trying to do works against what Iteration wants to do.

  4. #164
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    2 Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger (SLD) 225
    2 Murktide Regent (MH2) 337
    2 Expressive Iteration (STX) 379
    4 Dress Down (MH2) 334
    Needs minimum 4 lands (2 for Iteration + 2 to cast the card).

    Murktide is very proactive. But EI -> EI/Dress Down is tapping 4 lands to durdle.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    1 Scroll of Fate (C19) 58
    Needs minimum 5 lands. Makes opponent's Daze topdeck not dead.


    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    1 Badlands (NON) 0
    4 Polluted Delta (ZNE) 2
    4 Scalding Tarn (MH2) 439
    1 Snow-Covered Island (KHM) 279
    2 Underground Sea (NON) 0
    3 Volcanic Island (NON) 0
    4 Wasteland (ZNE) 30
    Needs a land drop. In theory that's possible on turn 3, but if you use Wasteland or Daze that sets you back a land. If you get Wastelanded because of the black splash (instead of playing fewer duals in UR), that sets you back a land. If you want to play around enemy Daze or hold up Stifle on their fetch, that sets you back a land too. To make those land plays possible, you have to hold back Iteration longer to have the land drop.

    The only cheap convenient nonland plays from exile are Ponder, Brainstorm and Bolt (12). That's much worse than the decks that did well with Iteration. Those cards don't do much proactive with the board state.

    Basically in this deck Iteration is dead early game and only works late game. "Works" means it chains into more cantrips or lands (not very aggressive) or the 4 2cmc threats, but it struggles to enable another Dreadnought. UR Delver got much more value out of Iteration.

  5. #165

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Slip Out the Back is amazing with Dreadnought, and a great way to protect its threats or remove blockers. Exactly what this deck needed.

    Recent 5-0 lists are playing it as a 2 of, which seems like a good place to start.

  6. #166
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    Slip Out the Back is amazing with Dreadnought, and a great way to protect its threats or remove blockers. Exactly what this deck needed.

    Recent 5-0 lists are playing it as a 2 of, which seems like a good place to start.
    Vision Charm kills Saga, mills DDFT, stops High Tide.

  7. #167

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    Slip Out the Back is amazing with Dreadnought, and a great way to protect its threats or remove blockers. Exactly what this deck needed.

    Recent 5-0 lists are playing it as a 2 of, which seems like a good place to start.
    I go all in with [card]Lazotep Plating[/card] It owns when lands foolishly tries to load up on Mazes.

  8. #168

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    I think I can use sailor's bane and uro together.
    And if I go insane: uro, Dreadnought, shredder and coco

  9. #169
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Here's the deck: https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...jdadd_th_place


    //Creatures: 9
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    2 Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
    2 Murktide Regent
    1 Brazen Borrower

    //Spells: 28
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Stifle
    2 Slip Out the Back
    1 Stubborn Denial
    3 Expressive Iteration
    1 Force of Negation
    1 Snuff Out

    //Enchantment: 4
    4 Dress Down

    //Lands: 19
    4 Wasteland
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Volcanic Island
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Snow-Covered Island

    //Sideboard: 15
    3 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Meltdown
    1 Hurkyl's Recall
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Torpor Orb
    2 Narset, Parter of Veils
    1 Scroll of Fate
    1 Plague Engineer


    So few Islands. Top 16 had 2 Blood Moon decks and 5 Wasteland decks. Winning deck was Blood Moon. Why play so many duals just to force Kroxa? Then they're playing Slip Out the Back instead of the more flexible Vision Charm because of Kroxa too. So much commitment to the 2-of Kroxa. Why? Kroxa is a mediocre threat. It dodges much Uro hate, but it still doesn't come close. Murktide is already a big 2 mana threat.

  10. #170

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Kroxa plays well with some of the cards enabling Dreadnought so I assume its just there for redundancy. For my tastes the black splash is not worth it but then again he's putting up some nice results.

    Reading through the last page here it's surprising to see so many people hating on EI. Early game you exile a land and take the better of the two options. Then late game you put the lands back. Its obviously better in other decks but its still good and the only time it sucks is if you play it early and don't hit a land. Worst case it's an Anticipate.

  11. #171
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    Kroxa plays well with some of the cards enabling Dreadnought so I assume its just there for redundancy.
    Hunted Phantasm and Hunted Horror do too. Doesn't mean they're automatically worth playing or warping the mana. The question should be if Kroxa is a good enough threat, not if it works with enablers. Why bend over backwards for Kroxa when you already have Murktide at 2-mana? If the deck wants more threat density, Dragon's Rage Channeler?

    Edit: Uro is much stronger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    Reading through the last page here it's surprising to see so many people hating on EI. Early game you exile a land and take the better of the two options. ...the only time it sucks is if you play it early and don't hit a land.
    "Early game" = turn 3 at the earliest, probably turn 5 in a Stifle+Waste+Daze deck with weak mana?? That counts as "early"?
    Before that it's a dead card in hand. It sucks even more as a dead card. That's the real worst case scenario. When you don't even have the land drops to try EI and/or can't afford to tap out at sorcery speed without interacting with the board state, so it sits dead in hand.

    Even lategame there aren't many proactive threats they can play off EI (with DRC in the deck, that number goes up). Even if you get lucky and EI reveals Dreadnought + enabler, unless you have 4+ lands you can't play it and must lose 1 of the pieces. If EI only reveals 1 of 2 pieces, you can't play from exile, so you have to decide whether it's worth putting in hand over some other card like Brainstorm/Force without knowing if you find the other piece. So they aren't playing EI -> threat. It's usually EI -> cantrip/land. EI's great in 1-drop Delver but awkward for A+B combo.
    Last edited by FTW; 05-27-2022 at 06:03 PM.

  12. #172

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Uro, imo, is worth the hoops and I think Sailor's bane is too because it leaves the cards in the yard for either Uro or this guy, who I am instantly high on:

    Dreadnought in play? That's a 12/12.
    Dreadnought dead? Still a 12/12!
    Please don't exile my creature.

  13. #173

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Hunted Phantasm and Hunted Horror do too. Doesn't mean they're automatically worth playing or warping the mana. The question should be if Kroxa is a good enough threat, not if it works with enablers. Why bend over backwards for Kroxa when you already have Murktide at 2-mana? If the deck wants more threat density, Dragon's Rage Channeler?

    Edit: Uro is much stronger.
    Agreed. Hence the very next sentence I wrote: "For my tastes the black splash is not worth it but then again he's putting up some nice results." i.e. I don't like adding colors to my deck unless there's truly a good reason to do so.

    That being said, I wouldn't compare Kroxa to the cards to you mentioned because Kroxa has useful abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    "Early game" = turn 3 at the earliest, probably turn 5 in a Stifle+Waste+Daze deck with weak mana?? That counts as "early"?
    Before that it's a dead card in hand. It sucks even more as a dead card. That's the real worst case scenario. When you don't even have the land drops to try EI and/or can't afford to tap out at sorcery speed without interacting with the board state, so it sits dead in hand.

    Even lategame there aren't many proactive threats they can play off EI (with DRC in the deck, that number goes up). Even if you get lucky and EI reveals Dreadnought + enabler, unless you have 4+ lands you can't play it and must lose 1 of the pieces. If EI only reveals 1 of 2 pieces, you can't play from exile, so you have to decide whether it's worth putting in hand over some other card like Brainstorm/Force without knowing if you find the other piece. So they aren't playing EI -> threat. It's usually EI -> cantrip/land. EI's great in 1-drop Delver but awkward for A+B combo.
    Yes. EI can be a dead card in a Wasteland format. In those cases, pitch it to Force.

    Yes. EI requires decision-making. Make good decisions.

    A few copies is not a bad idea. It's card advantage and selection. Just as you say there are bad situations, in some situations its the best top deck because it instantly draws you into your combo. Let's be a little more objective here.

  14. #174
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    Yes. EI can be a dead card in a Wasteland format. In those cases, pitch it to Force.
    Just as you say there are bad situations, in some situations its the best top deck. Let's be a little more objective here.
    Yes, EI is good sometimes. Card advantage helps. I replied to "the only time it sucks". That wasn't the worst case scenario. You misrepresented the floor, so I focused on the negatives.

    The real downside is it's dead early. You have to wait till a certain phase of the game before it's viable as draw 2. Deck construction choices for Grixis Stiflenought delay that even longer. No amount of in-game good decisions can compensate.

    When you talk about the good sides, do you mean in UR Delver or in Grixis Stiflenought? EI is much better when you can cast a cheap threat from exile (Delver/DRC/Ragavan/Murktide) and put an interaction spell or cantrip in hand. That way you're impacting the board state for tapping out and gaining 2 relevant cards. EI is much better in Delver. EI -> cantrip + land (the more likely outcome here) is less impressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    Yes. EI requires decision-making. Make good decisions.
    The problem is that EI limits the range of decisions/skill you can apply compared to other draw spells. Especially in a deck like this with statistically fewer lines that are good tempo to play off EI.


    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    because it instantly draws you into your combo
    EI doesn't work well with A+B combos. Unless you have enough mana left to cast both pieces that turn, you can't keep both cards.
    e.g. topdeck EI into Dreadnought + Dress Down. Unless you have 5 lands (land revealed by EI doesn't count), you didn't draw into the combo. You must lose 1 piece. No good decisions can fix that. You put either A or B in hand and then hope to topdeck into the other, or you keep the 3rd card and lose both A and B. That's all EI allows. EI restricts your decisions compared to other lategame draw spells.

    EI gets better if you add more proactive cheap plays (more threats to play from exile), clean up the manabase (easier to keep 3+ lands) and don't play Daze (easier to keep 3+ lands).

    Rough example (assuming URx Stiflenought still):

    //Creatures: 12
    4 Dragon's Rage Channeler
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    3 Murktide Regent
    1 Brazen Borrower

    //Spells: 24
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Stifle
    3 Expressive Iteration
    1 Force of Negation

    //Enchantments: 3
    3 Dress Down

    //Lands: 21
    2 Urza's Saga
    4 Wasteland
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Prismatic Vista
    2 Volcanic Island
    3 Island
    2 Mountain

    //Sideboard: 15
    3 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Alpine Moon
    1 Meltdown
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Soul-Guide Lantern
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 End the Festivities
    2 Narset, Parter of Veils


    Something like that has more resilient mana, more cheap proactive threats it can play off EI, no Daze to set you back land drops. Saga makes it easier to set up the Dreadnought combo (e.g. EI -> Saga + Dress Down/Stifle) while also helping Delirium, adding threats, and tutoring for hate pieces.
    Last edited by FTW; 05-28-2022 at 06:31 PM.

  15. #175
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    @FTW probably can't drop Daze in UR until it is banned, even though it's the worst card in the deck. When there is no Daze, you need to use the mana progression casting PWs and Scroll of Fate. Again though the question is why we're playing Ponder instead of Standstill, and if Standstill why are we playing MurkGoyf over Grim Lavamancer. On the Volcs, you need 1x, could play 2x, but will lose an inordinate amount of games to 3x.

    3x Nought
    4x DRC
    2x Lavamancer (swap a DRC to Lavamancer if your meta is Elves and DnT)

    4x FoW
    4x Bstorm
    4x Bolt
    3x Stifle
    2x FoN
    1x Spikefield

    4x Standstill
    2x Dress Down
    2x Scroll of Fate
    2x Shark'nado
    1x Phyrexian Furnace

    2x Karn (could also be Chandra ToD)

    4x Tarn
    4x Vista
    3x Island
    2x Mountain
    1x Volc
    1x Otawara
    3x Wasteland
    2x Saga

    Consider 1 more cut for the 21st land.

    SB:
    PoP x2
    Blast x3
    Keg x1
    Relic x1
    EE x1
    Torpor x1
    Staticaster x1
    Ashiok x2
    Alpine Moon x2
    Liquimetal x1

    In general do not play End the Festivities b/c Powder Keg hits Elves and 8cast and a huge amount of other decks. Likewise EE is better against Elves (and a ton of other decks) while doing most of the same stuff as Meltdown. Null Rod is 1-sided and maindeck (Karn), also it kills Chalice.

    With mana development if you shouldn't be rewarding opponents for playing Blast and Bolt and Ending; cut the pointless Narset and board super Chandra if those are your targets. Blood Moon is unplayable, as is B2B - the only decks these are good against are all flooded with Boseju...also Alpine Moon is 1-sided and comes down on turn 1 (before Standstill).

    Surgical is excessive, so unless your paper meta is flooded with yolo-combo it is better to have repeatable value yard hate. Better vs Delver and everything fair. Pithing Needle just dies to Ending or gets countered by Chalice on 1; not sure what this is for.

    Main issue with UR, much like UG is that it doesn't have a Verdict or Toxic or Dead of Winter. UG is better at forcing out a 1x Lotus Field to play 2x SB Verdict (Lotus Field as only white source), but in UR we're better off with a super Chandra downtick, if that's what you're trying to cover.

  16. #176
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Good points Fox.

    I started from the premise they want to play Stiflenought, not Dreadstill. Then making minor tweaks to the shell so EI is less underwhelming as a draw engine.

    Otherwise yes, Standstill is a more reliable draw engine for assembling Dreadnought so just play UR Dreadstill. Daze is also easier to play with a draw engine that requires 2 lands instead of one that needs 3-5.

    Is tempo UR Dreadstill possible (i.e. with Daze)? What would it look like? 4th Stifle and Wasteland and more burn instead of the high mana stuff? Does Rood have a current list?

  17. #177
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Rood does more of the UWR stuff recently. He's doing the Tundra/Daze stuff so it operates more like StifleNought with the card Standstill (combat only wincon).

    You can still play Daze in UR Dreadstill, but you lose the good cards: PW and FoN. Otherwise same list, some different SB in the Karn wish area.

  18. #178

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    FTW, per usual everything you said is right on the money. EI is definitely better in Delver but I still think its a worthwhile card to use here; just maybe not a full set.

    The list you gave is interested and I always like when you can play tempo with combo together e.g. Murk in Doomsday. Many times I find having those two strategies in the same deck makes your opponent play suboptimally i.e. they get overly focused on preventing one strategy and lose to the other.

  19. #179
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    FTW, per usual everything you said is right on the money. EI is definitely better in Delver but I still think its a worthwhile card to use here; just maybe not a full set.
    Agreed. Some card draw is good. And EI gets better when you diversify with cheap standalone threats (DRC).

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    The list you gave is interested and I always like when you can play tempo with combo together e.g. Murk in Doomsday. Many times I find having those two strategies in the same deck makes your opponent play suboptimally i.e. they get overly focused on preventing one strategy and lose to the other.
    Murk in Doomsday are completely different wincons. Plan A is Thassa. Plan B is combat damage. While it confuses opponent's hate, advancing one plan doesn't help the other. It's like having regular damage + infect damage in the same deck. You can trick opponent but they're 2 unrelated plans.

    Here Dreadnought + Murktide/DRC are still the same wincon: 20 damage. It doesn't matter where that damage comes from. Whether you make a combo fatty or play Murktide or cast burn spells, all damage sources advance your plan. 2 Dreadnought hits. Or 1 Dreadnought hit + 8 from Murktide. Or 1 Dreadnought hit + Bolts. Or a couple Murktide hits. Or Murktide + DRC + bolts. You just need 20 damage combined. Doesn't matter how. Some A+B decks must resolve the combo to win. Some creature decks need their big creatures to stay alive long enough for lethal damage. But UR doesn't care what the damage source is. 2-card 12/12, 1-card 8/8, burn... All of it adds to 20 damage. It can win without ever making A+B and with 0 creatures left (topdeck Bolt).

    So the idea here is you don't need to commit too much to the Dreadnought combo. In some matches the 2-card 12/12 is very strong. In others it's weak. Instead of doubling down on more 2-card fatties (Kroxa, Slip, Torpor, Hunted Horror) and losing to the same hate, you can mix in fair threats. The fair threats play better with EI too.

    Fox has a good point though:
    Expressive Iteration UR - pick 2 from 3 cards, with some limits
    Standstill 1U - draw 3 of 3 cards

    Card draw is good. But why not Standstill?


    //Creatures: 10
    4 Dragon's Rage Channeler
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    2 Grim Lavamancer

    //Spells: 22
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Stifle
    4 Daze
    2 Force of Negation

    //Enchantments: 7
    4 Standstill
    3 Dress Down

    //Artifacts: 1
    1 Retrofitter Foundry

    //Lands: 20
    2 Urza's Saga
    3 Wasteland
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Prismatic Vista
    2 Volcanic Island
    3 Island
    2 Mountain

    //Sideboard: 15
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Powder Keg
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Soul-Guide Lantern
    2 Alpine Moon
    2 Price of Progress

    ...

    9 early threats to curve into Standstill (DRC, Lavaman, Saga, Retro). 10 free counters to protect. Stifle + Daze + Waste (+ Needle) mana denial.

    @Fox: Saga -> Needle uncounterably disrupts many things without giving opponent a relevant interaction window. Depths, Boseiju, 8-cast engines, Vial, Painter, fringe combos. If they respond to Saga trigger to avoid Needle, you don't need to get Needle. If they don't respond, you can blow them out with Needle. You can even "value Needle" to LD their uncracked fetch.

  20. #180
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Retrofitter is a really bad card vs Ending and Delver and combo. Whatever you're finding from maindeck better draw a card or instantly turn on delirium by sacrificing itself. If you had a Saga under Standstill, then the Retro is winmore...and all to just get 1-shot by Ending. Note that Furnace helps colorless and red to draw towards blue while also building delirium.

    When it comes to the Saga stuff, there is a large drop-off after Map and/or cantrip yard hate (Furnace, Soul Guide, Relic, Nihil). The next best thing would be Currency Converter. A case can also be made for Cursed Scroll b/c this deck counts to 20. Any Needle stuff can stay in the SB for Karn to wish, or bring in vs linear strategies.

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