Bosh N Roll posted the Greater Good Dreadnought 5-0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyzj3kcDQMs
Round 1 vs Lands
Round 2 vs GWRB Maverick
Round 3 vs Red Stompy
Round 4 vs UW Stoneblade
Round 5 vs UR Delver
//Lands: 19
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
1 Island
4 Urza's Saga
//Creatures: 10
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
2 Endurance
//Spells: 22
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Stifle
1 Minor Misstep
2 Expressive Iteration
2 Abrade
1 Misdirection
//Enchantments: 7
4 Dress Down
3 Greater Good
//Artifacts: 2
1 Chrome Mox
1 Soul-Guide Lantern
//Sideboard: 15
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Pyroblast
1 Hydroblast
1 Veil of Summer
1 Force of Negation
1 Force of Vigor
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Endurance
1 Pithing Needle
2 Torpor Orb
2 Run Afoul
I like the strategy. Greater Good was very useful in grindy games to play around removal on Dreadnought or just draw an obscene amount of interaction. In one game he chained draws into double Bolt for exactsies on turn before death, and in another he drew his deck twice (Endurance) and kept presenting threats/answers until optimal-playing control opponent ran out of cards.
The Chrome Mox seems suspect and should probably be a basic Forest, with all the GG costs in the deck. Maybe also -1 Saga +1 Tarn.Back to Basics, Wasteland, and Blood Moon all punished the mana hard in the league. The manabase proved to be the biggest weakness. The deck stood up well to other lines of attack.
Misdirection should probably be another Minor Misstep, or maybe the SB Force of Negation. It never did a relevant thing in any games, and it lost a game that FoN would have won.
EI was less good here than in other decks, but it's still card draw and helps curve into Uro or Greater Good, the engines that really dominate the game.
Torpor Orb was never boarded in, due to the anti-synergy with Endurance and Uro. Maybe that should be shaved to 0-1 slots for Stifle? Stifle is good against combo and Initiative. In the matchups where Stifle is bad, you don't really want Torpor either (or you want Endurance + Uro more).
Last edited by FTW; 02-28-2023 at 01:45 PM.
Against each of these cards (BtoB, waste, blood moon), isn't chrome Mox better than forest?Originally Posted by FTW
B2B and Moon were deleted from the format by FoV and Boseju. You should be much more scared of FoV than B2B or Moon if you ever put a Saga on the table at the same time as a Mox.
The bosh and roll video is fantastic and really shows that in the hands of a capable pilot, this deck is every bit as good as Delver/Initiative.
However, Im surprised the list didnt play any Mycosynth Gardens or Haywire Mite. Every Urza’s Saga deck that makes green mana should be playing a Haywire Mite.
I would probably replace an abrade with a hayfire as they play a similar role
I do agree that the questionable slots in that list are… Misdirection, the 3rd Greater Good and the Urza’s Saga target Chrome Mox.
I would replace them with cards that play a similar role… Mental Misstep, The Mycosynth Gardens and given how often Saga found something relevent, a different Saga target like Shadowspear or Pithing Needle or Mishra’s Bauble or Expedition Map or Retrofitter Foundry or Currency Converter or Pyrite Spellbomb or Mishra’s Research Desk might be nice.
Chrome Mox taps for only 1 color (usually) and is card disadvantage. That means you get punished harder when the B2B deck kills your mana source with Prismatic Ending (1-mana Stone Rain + discard 1), or the green Loam+Waste deck gets your mana with Force of Vigor, or Delver gets to kill a bonus "land" with their Meltdown X=1 on Dreadnought.
Whereas they can't interact with your basic.
So yes Mox does dodge nonbasic hate on the surface. But 2-for-1 Mox rewards them for spending another card attacking your mana, it's not a reliable safety net. Fetch into both basics is more reliable. You can skip basic Mountain because red is a tertiary color, Blood Moon fixes red for you, and the other 2 don't stop you from tapping Volcanic once. But with all the GG costs, it's harder to rely on just Tropical Island without already having basic Forest out.
Last edited by FTW; 03-01-2023 at 07:34 PM.
Can Misdirection redirect a Solitude? If so, Misdirection actually looks pretty good in Bosh’s list. Redirecting a removal spell from Delver or White Initiative is a blow out and Misdirection is just as good as FoW at winning counter wars.
I saw the post that Misdirection should be FoN in Bosh’s 5-0 list. But the fact the FoN cant protect your guys from removal on your turn (which usually means all instant speed removal) is a pretty significant con. FoN cant counter Murktide or Initiative creatures like FoW can and it cant redirect removal to them the way that MisD can.
You cannot. Misdirection cannot change the target of triggered abilities.
You can only Misdirect spells, not abilities.
Misdirection needs a legal target. If opponent has no creatures, you can still Force a Swords. If opponent has no creatures, you can't Misdirect the Swords.
You can't Misdirect spells with multiple targets (Force of Vigor).
Misdirection fails to hit spells with removal abilities (Teferi, Jace) or non-targetting spells (Meltdown, Brotherhoods End).
That all makes Misdirection unreliable protection. Sure you could get bonus value killing their creature, but most of those creatures are losing to the 12/12 you protected either way, so is that just win-more?
FoN may be too unreliable on your turn, so maybe the card needs to be Flusterstorm or Minor Misstep or another 1-for-1 counter.
That's not exactly true: you can misdirection spells even if there's no legal spell to change the target to, so be careful or you will try to misdirection a swords with no legal alternative.
The upside on misdirection is that you can pitch cast it on both turns and that it can be a whole lot more swingy when black spells are involved, like hymns and thoughtseizes. I think it's fine as a one-of
Okay, so, without yet knowing what the metagame %s will look like after the motion from the current banning settles down, if we take the Boshnroll donation list that FTW posted above as the stock list, now that EI is no longer on the menu, as a first-order reaction, does it still make sense to be in red? How are people feeling about RUG Dreadnought naively in the immediate aftermath of the banning (compared to other Dreadnought color combinations, not as an entire archetype vs. the meta)?
I was heavy in red and wasn't on EI to begin with so unless this update is good for chalice (since I'd replace red for colorless cards) I am still high on red cards.
EI was not important to the build. I was already testing a version with 0 EI.
Dreadnought needs some source of card draw. Other popular builds (Grixis with Kroxa) relied on EI as their only card draw, but this build has Uro and Greater Good.
Red is for removal: Lightning Bolt, Pyroblast, Abrade. UG on its own lacks removal, so a 3rd color is needed. If the metagame shifts, perhaps white (Swords & Prismatic Ending) would be better. For now, Pyroblast is strong. Bolt also doubles as a win condition. If opponent has turned off combat somehow, you can use Greater Good to draw your deck repeatedly and Bolt them to death (recycling with Endurance).
The version without EI I was testing was this. I still find the mana a bit unstable, but it's better with full Xerox and basic Forest.
//Lands: 20
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
1 Taiga
1 Island
1 Forest
3 Urza's Saga
//Creatures: 11
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
3 Endurance
//Spells: 20
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Stifle
1 Minor Misstep
2 Abrade
//Enchantments: 7
4 Dress Down
3 Greater Good
//Artifacts: 2
1 Soul-Guide Lantern
1 Currency Converter
//Sideboard: 15
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Hydroblast
1 Veil of Summer
1 Stifle
1 Test of Talents
1 Force of Negation
1 Force of Vigor
1 Brotherhood's End
1 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Run Afoul
I tested a 2nd Minor Misstep but didn't like it. I found it dead too often, even testing against UR Delver (aka 1cc.dek)! This deck wants to tap out too much to reliably hold up Misstep.
Excellent. I wanted to play around with this a bit. I'll start with your build, than.
EDIT: Test of Talents? You monster.
100% of the time, it wins every time (Sample size n=1 game(s))
Sylvan Library seems like a must-play with 4 Uro to me. My impression from the Bosh N Roll video was that Minsc & Boo would have been better in most situations than Greater Good. I also wanted to run 4 Bolts & Boseiju rather than 3 Bolts & 2 Abrade. Anyway, I do want tp play RUG and this seems like it may be the best RUG deck at the moment. I am going to try and jam some leagues with this deck and if I have anything intelligent to say I will post here.
Good luck! Let us know how it went.
Sylvan Library was in older builds. People here cut it when the rest of the format also cut it from Uro decks (Prismatic Ending, making Force of Vigor on Dreadnought even more punishing, etc.). Maybe it's still the best green card draw.
Yeah, maybe M&B is just the better card at 4 mana. Greater Good has cool synergies but is partly meme value. If you cut Greater Good for M&B, the deck wants some lower cmc card draw. Sylvan Library fills that role well.
Abrade is to answer Chalice @ 1, which is otherwise very punishing. It's also your out to stuff like Karn -> Ensnaring Bridge. If you cut Abrades, then the SB probably needs more artifact kill. Maybe another Force of Vigor. Postboard you want 4 things to kill Chalice.
4-1 into 5-0. Leagues are ofc meaningless being so full of combo food, but managed to pair into some real decks. Managed to roll EchoCannon subtype Riddlesmith, monoU PainterCast, SnS, Delver, Minsc/Uro midrange (BANNED), Reanimonster.
Pseudo-Delver was encountered twice, subtypes Shadow and Infect. Nonsense included UB Peer-based storm (think ANT without LED/IT, add counterspells), UB mill. VoDs up on twitch, pay attention to the mana.
I wanted to port BoshNRolls list to remove red and use only a single dual land, what do you think of this version?
UG/Simic Dressnought
//Lands: 20
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Prismatic Vista
1 Tropical Island
2 Snow-Covered Forest
2 Snow-Covered Island
4 Urza's Saga
3 Mycosynth Gardens
//Creatures: 13
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
3 Endurance
1 Tarmogoyf
//Spells: 18
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Stifle
2 Minor Misstep
1 Slip Out the Back
1 Misdirection
//Enchantments: 7
4 Dress Down
2 Greater Good
1 Sylvan Library
//Artifacts: 2
1 Haywire Mite
1 Soul-Guide Lantern
//Sideboard: 15
1 Force of Negation
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Endurance
1 Pithing Needle
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Veil of Summer
2 Torpor Orb
2 Force of Vigor
3 Run Afoul
Do you think replacing the 3rd Greater Good with a Sylvan Library was a mistake? It was my attempt to lower the curve.
I also cut the Chrome Mox for the 20th land, in order to accommodate The Mycosynth Gardens into the list. Should the 2nd Forest or 3rd Gardens instead be a 3rd Island?
Do you think this list can still 5-0 even without the red?
I think it'll be harder to 5-0 without removal. But try it out and see how it does. 3x Run Afoul in the board helps. SB may want 2x Borrower too. Helps with big creatures as well as prison.
That manabase has too much colorless and not enough colored. Only 11 turn 1 blue? That'll have curve and color problems for a deck that wants turn 1 Ponder, Stifle or Misstep.
+1 Island
+2 Otawara
That puts you at 14 blue. 23 lands, but 7 are self-sacrificing colorless lands, so really only 16 stable colored sources and low risk of flooding.
To make room for lands, the easiest cuts are Goyf, Misdirection and Slip (Mycosynth is better). Bosh N Roll's latest Dreadnought video shows how bad Goyf is.
https://www.mtgo.com/en/mtgo/decklis...AvramGarrisson
Avram Garrison just 5-0ed with this list…
Artifact (5)
1 Phyrexian Furnace
2 Scroll of Fate
2 Currency Converter
Creature (9)
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Dragon's Rage Channeler
Enchantment (5)
2 Shark Typhoon
3 Dress Down
Instant (18)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Brainstorm
3 Stifle
4 Force of Will
1 Spikefield Hazard
2 Force of Negation
Land (23)
3 Island
2 Mountain
2 Wasteland
1 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Urza's Saga
4 Prismatic Vista
2 Otawara, Soaring City
3 The Mycosynth Gardens
60 Cards
Sideboard (15)
1 Phyrexian Furnace
2 Price of Progress
1 Powder Keg
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Pyroblast
1 Noxious Revival
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Ashiok, Dream Render
1 Smash to Dust
1 Brotherhood's End
After seeing Scroll of Fate, Grim Lavamancer and Shark Typhoon, I excitedly scanned the list hoping to see some
number of Standstill (my second favorite mtg card behind Pox).
A very different take than the Greater Good list that BoshNRoll 5-0ed with. I dont even know how to go about finding the optimal version of this list considering how many different ways dressnought can be built.
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