We can just skip to the end: You don't like Coat or Hidden.Originally Posted by FTW
I do like them, and played 3 coats 2 Hidden
What's your list? I'm surprised they didn't post it if it was that different.
I don't like Hide. I like Coat but think its suboptimal in Dreadnought without a good interactive plan. I'm also open to being proven wrong by good results.
The recent slew of 5-0s Dressnought had playing a playset of Doorkeeper Thrull is not a coincidence! I finally got some Doorkeeper Thrull and the card is really really good! Better than I expected and better than Slip. Between the Torpor Orb effect, the anti Batterskull tech, and the surprise flash 1/2 blocking, its always useful, even when not being used to enable the combo. I also found a couple of Daze to be very effective. As a 2 of, Daze becomes quite rare and is much more likely to surprise your opponent and counter a key spell for free. We have a fast clock, the early turns are key and Daze reigns supreme there. I revised my lists as a result…
Bant Dressnought 2024
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Dress Down
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
2 Daze
1 Slip Out the Back
1 Lorien Revealed
2 Prismatic Ending
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
2 Doorkeeper Thrull
3 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Karakas
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Forest
//Sideboard:
3 Hydroblast
2 Doorkeeper Thrull
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Veil of Summer
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Pick Your Poison
1 Collector Ouphe
1 Force of Negation
1 Force of Vigor
Sultai Dressnought 2024
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Dress Down
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
2 Slip Out the Back
2 Daze
1 Witherbloom Command
1 Lorien Revealed
1 Shelodred’s Edict
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
2 Orcish Bowmasters
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
3 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Forest
//Sideboard:
3 Hydroblast
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Veil of Summer
2 Force of Vigor
1 Pick Your Poison
1 Fatal Push
1 Collector Ouphe
1 Force of Negation
I am sure most would prefer 1/1 split between FoN and Daze, especially since Daze is even more likely to surprise your opponent as a 1 of but I would absolutely 100% endorse always playing atleast one Daze at a minimum. The card becomes much stronger when its rare and unexpected.
The Bant version looks good. Thrull has been performing well online.
That looks even better cutting green and just running Murktide as a finisher instead of Uro. More stable mana. Daze + Wasteland mana denial plan makes more sense with many threats on 2 mana.
Boshnrolls recent Cryptic Coat Stoneforge Dressnought list performed very well…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlba6a...UJYm9zaG5yb2xs
4 Brainstorm
3 Cryptic Coat
3 Daze
3 Dress Down
4 Flooded Strand
4 Force of Will
1 Island
1 Kaldra Compleat
1 Lórien Revealed
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
1 Plains
4 Ponder
1 Savannah
3 Stifle
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
3 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
2 Wasteland
SIDEBOARD:
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Collector Ouphe
1 Damping Sphere
1 Deafening Silence
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Negation
1 Hullbreacher
2 Hydroblast
1 Powder Keg
2 Prismatic Ending
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Veil of Summer
I still really like Doorkeeper Thrull and sticking with that instead of Stoneforge as a hate piece rather than yet another finisher, but its a solid list.
Seems worse than Legolas's Quick Reflexes for a creature that already has trample.
It's colorless, moves, lasts longer than a turn, and weren't you the one who kept asking "What if they had bigger creatures?"
The shroud only lasts one turn, doesn't move, costs 2 mana, and doesn't have Split Second (can be responded to).
"What if they had bigger creatures" than vanilla 2/2s (what the Cloak is most of the time), not bigger than 12/12. If it's not a 12/12 you don't need to protect it.
The winning Coat decks all have white for StP to kill bigger creatures btw - the problem I pointed out for UG.
Last edited by FTW; 02-23-2024 at 06:37 PM.
who gives a shit about any of that:
Just draw 12
Can exile Dreadnought in response to sacrifice trigger (from cast or Saga), seems good.
Still seems good to protect with Legolas vs Costume. Or Fow/Daze.
Does that lose legendary supertype when it copies?
Unless they're changing the rules it would seem to. Older cards like Lazav, the Multifarious say the copy retains the Legendary supertype.
So you could have one Curie out and one Curie-Nought, then use Curie to copy the other in response to removal. Or both Curie-nought and regular Noughts out.
Last edited by FTW; 02-23-2024 at 11:42 PM.
Haystack 1W artifact. Paytap: target creature you control phases out.
From the assassin's Creed stuff. Can Karn wish it. Would be better if it targeted artifacts and could target enemy Chalice.
Curie still seems better because
- it's a proactive turn 2 play that forces opponent to leave a blocker or hold removal
- it works standalone as an Ophidian, doesn't need combo pieces to be relevant
- pitches to FoW/FoN
- attacks turn 3 as 12/12 (off Saga Chapter 3 or cast), while Haystack only allows turn 4 attack
It's good to see the source still has some activity. I 3-0'd and 3-1'd my last 2 FNMs with this list, which is basically boshnroll's list without the green because I didn't own enough mistys and uros.
The sideboard is not well thought out, just generic blue and white hate cards. The temeshi has never even hit the battlefield, so it's probably bad. That is an easy swap out for Curie next week. And the idea with masterwork of ingenuity is that is can be a backup kaldra if your germ gets plowed or can reduce a coat's cycling cost 3 mana. It's been fine so far, I'm gonna keep it for now.
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Tameshi, Reality Architect
1 Lórien Revealed
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Cryptic Coat
1 Kaldra Compleat
1 Masterwork of Ingenuity
3 Dress Down
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
2 Meticulous Archive
1 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
3 Wasteland
//SIDEBOARD:
1 Aether Spellbomb
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Brazen Borrower
2 Deafening Silence
2 Flusterstorm
2 Hydroblast
1 March of Otherworldly Light
1 Soul-Guide Lantern
1 Submerge
2 Surgical Extraction
Mono-B - LWW
Bug Beans - WW
Doomsday WLW
Mono-B - WLW
Beans - LL
Miracles - LWW
Lands - LWW
Looks good. Nice results. I'm a big fan of the UW version.
Could those Tameshis just be Murktides? 3 Murktide seems good if you're not on Uro. Or Curie.
The 1-of Masterwork makes sense if you're on Urza's Saga, but without Saga it seems high variance. How often did you have it where it had nothing to copy? Is it finally time to bring back Copy Artifact? (copies equipment or Dreadnought or enemy The One Ring and pitches to Force).
How was Meticulous Archive for you?
SB needs more March. You don't have many ways to kill Beans or Chalice @ 1. Probably why you had that 1 loss to Beans. Karn -> Ensnaring Bridge and The One Ring could also be problems without more Marches.
Edit: March could replace Aether Spellbomb and Submerge. You don't need Tier 3 removal in a deck with 4 Swords main, especially if you're adding Marches too.
Murktide is probably a good idea, but I don't own any at the moment.
I haven't had masterwork stranded yet, and I did end up fetching it off stoneforge once when I already had kaldra and coat in hand. It ended up eating a FoN when I cast it with a coat on the board. So that was a favorable trade. Copy Artifact might not a bad idea, except it will push up the cost to bounce and re-cast. This deck might also be capable of running some sagas, just need to work around the dress down/construct issue.
Meticulous archive was good, I never had any issues with it yet other then forgetting to fetch end of turn for a free surveil. I don't think I would want more then 2, and 1 is probably enough. Being able to bounce it with daze and replay it for more surveils is nice synergy too.
Other things that I have been considering are ways to bounce your cloaked creatures in case one of them is a spell you want like a force of will. Karakas + making them a ring bearer somehow, or maybe just teferi is the right thing to be doing.
Sevinne's Reclamation is also something I want to try out to recur value from the graveyard, although I don't really want to lower my blue card count if I can help it.
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