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Thread: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

  1. #301

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    I think you need to understand that this isn't the space to just keep saying "play a different deck". It's the space to improve, talk about, and examine this deck. We get it. You think this deck is good only for the MTGO meta, but it's very tiresome to have you keep coming in here and shitting on people.

  2. #302

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Anyways, A good SB card for BUG lists:

  3. #303
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Your wincon isn't tied to "I'm a skilled player" or "my deck is great", it is completely bound to dodging bad matchups.
    That's what "metagaming" is and how a large number of players select decks for events. They pick a deck that looks good for the current metagame (hoping to dodge underrepresented bad matchups), changing decks as the metagame changes, rather than playing 1 deck always. What you call "tourism" is what most players view as normal deck selection.

    If Stiflenought is good in the current online meta, due to Delver's dominance presence and high combo presence in Leagues, then it's a rational choice for spaghetti throwing. Most of those players don't care if the deck will still be good in a future removal-heavy fair meta (e.g. past Miracles/Grixis/D&T era). They care if it's good now, and will switch if the meta changes. Normal deck selection. Especially if they're online players and already have the staples, there's minimal entry cost and not much wasted to pivot to another Xerox deck.

    Your concerns of cost and longevity only matter for Paper players new to Legacy buying from scratch. The results posted are from online play.

    So we might as well keep this thread focused on how to optimize Dressnought/Stiflenought in the current meta, operating under that constraint. "Play Dreadstill instead" is as irrelevant as "play Depths instead". Speculation over future meta changes after uncertain bans isn't relevant either. MindTwister may not get banned. If they ban something from Delver, it may not be what people expect. Meanwhile a new set will print something even more broken.
    Last edited by FTW; 08-25-2022 at 11:24 AM.

  4. #304

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Anyways, A good SB card for BUG lists:
    Thats a very sweet card. It has to compete with Abrupt Decay and Assassins Trophy. Not having Split Second and needing 4 mana to take out creatures and walkers are both big minuses but the fact that it exiles, doesnt ramp the opponent and doesnt care about the cards cmc are very nice bonuses. I will probably replace an Abrupt Decay with it as a start and see how it fares.

  5. #305

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Why pay 2 for dress down when you can pay 4 for Ertai!

  6. #306

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Why pay 2 for dress down when you can pay 4 for Ertai!
    Yeah, its unplayable at 4 mana.

    Magicverse placed 14th in the weekend legacy challenge with RUG Dressnought

    Creature (7)
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    3 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath

    Sorcery (8)
    4 Expressive Iteration
    4 Ponder

    Instant (21)
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    1 Pyroblast
    4 Stifle
    1 Stubborn Denial

    Enchantment (4)
    4 Dress Down

    Land (20)
    2 Misty Rainforest
    1 Mystic Sanctuary
    2 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Tropical Island
    4 Volcanic Island
    4 Wasteland

    Sideboard
    3 Pyroblast
    1 Ancient Grudge
    2 Carpet of Flowers
    2 Hydroblast
    1 Meltdown
    2 Pyroclasm
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Unlicensed Hearse

    Its a pretty standard list but with a single maindeck Pyroblast and a single maindeck Stubborn Denial.
    Last edited by Clark Kant; 08-28-2022 at 09:33 AM.

  7. #307

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    What's the thread's thoughts on traverse the ulvenwald?
    Land and instant are easy. Sorceries we have, Enchantments, creatures, we also have.
    I was watching the NRG yesterday and today and I just feel like jamming Endurance into this deck, no matter the cost, is the play I just need to find the right green cards that play along.

  8. #308

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    What's the thread's thoughts on traverse the ulvenwald?
    Land and instant are easy. Sorceries we have, Enchantments, creatures, we also have.
    I was watching the NRG yesterday and today and I just feel like jamming Endurance into this deck, no matter the cost, is the play I just need to find the right green cards that play along.
    Cantripping turn one can be important, so if you want a green cantrip, I would go with Abundant Harvest over Transverse. Transverse could work in a build with DRC but it has a bit of antisynergy with Uro.

    Brainstorm, Ponder and even Preordain are much better than Transverse and the blue count for FoW is more important than the green count for Endurance, especially since hardcasting Endurance is easier than hardcasting FoW and it gives you a 3/4 reach flash body to boot.

  9. #309

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Kant View Post
    Cantripping turn one can be important, so if you want a green cantrip, I would go with Abundant Harvest over Transverse. Transverse could work in a build with DRC but it has a bit of antisynergy with Uro.

    Brainstorm, Ponder and even Preordain are much better than Transverse and the blue count for FoW is more important than the green count for Endurance, especially since hardcasting Endurance is easier than hardcasting FoW and it gives you a 3/4 reach flash body to boot.
    The blue count is already high enough: The base one would start with is:
    4 Stifle
    4 FOW
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Dressdown
    3 Uro (though for green counts you might go to 4)
    2 Sailors' Bane.
    That's 25ish blue cards.
    Meanwhile for green you'd have
    3 (4) Uro
    4 Endurance
    Which is only 8 cards. You need at least one more, and ideally it would be one that works with Bane (so not Sylvan Library)
    That's also only 29 Cards You still have 11/12 left then when you account for ~18 lands.

  10. #310

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Thats a fair point. I didnt realize your green count was so low. My list plays Sylvan Library, Goyf and Ice Fang as a cantripping death toucher (and I even used to play Hierarch to hedge against Edict/Lili and help power out faster Uros) but no one else seems to play those.

    I would still opt for Abundant Harvest over Transverse. Harvest is an excellent and very underrated cantrip. But I havent tried Transvese and I also havent tried Sailors Bane so itís possible I could be underrating both cards the same way others underrate Harvest. I wouldnt be surprised if Bane is a powerhouse that everyone is ignoring only because it doesnt exist on MTGO.

  11. #311

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Ward 7 means it survives everything that Dreadnought loses to except verdict, while playing nice with uro. It's the ideal third threat. But it of course has deck building requirements.
    One that had me playing consider and digging for a green one.
    I thought about harvest but I thought I'd ask about traverse first

  12. #312
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Revealing that you run Stifle and Dreadnought on turn 1 with a green cantrip is suspect.

  13. #313

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Revealing that you run Stifle and Dreadnought on turn 1 with a green cantrip is suspect.
    This is true: For a deck that wants to play at instant speed as much as possible a medium sorcery speed cantrip don't seem like it's it.

  14. #314
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    What's the thread's thoughts on traverse the ulvenwald?
    Land and instant are easy. Sorceries we have, Enchantments, creatures, we also have.
    I was watching the NRG yesterday and today and I just feel like jamming Endurance into this deck, no matter the cost, is the play I just need to find the right green cards that play along.
    Traverse the Ulvenwald is too unreliable in Legacy.

    You could try green using Once Upon A Time (instant), Tarmogoyf, Noble Hierarch, or maindeck Veil of Summer (if 1 Pyroblast is maindeckable, 1 Veil is too).

    Hierarch synergizes with the mana superiority sub-plan and curves well into Uro and Endurance.


    //Lands: 20
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Prismatic Vista
    2 Breeding Pool
    3 Island
    2 Forest
    1 Otawara, Soaring City
    1 Boseiju, Who Endures
    3 Wasteland

    //Creatures: 16
    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
    3 Endurance
    1 Sailors' Bane

    //Spells: 20
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Stifle
    1 Stubborn Denial
    3 Once Upon A Time

    //Enchantments: 4
    4 Dress Down

    //Sideboard: 15
    3 Force of Vigor
    3 Run Afoul
    3 Veil of Summer
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Powder Keg
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Scroll of Fate


    Blue count: 26
    Green count: 14

    Green is a bit low in game 1, but enough to board in Force of Vigor or evoke Endurance turn 0 if other green cards are boarded in.

    I used Breeding Pool because you had it in your other list. If you can afford Tropical, of course that is better.
    Last edited by FTW; 08-29-2022 at 01:57 PM.

  15. #315

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    I dug pretty deep and was theorizing pretty hard but:
    Green Sun's Zenith Fetches Hierarch early, and Uro/Endurence on 4.
    Finale of DevestationFetches any creature, and can pull from the GY. But costs 1 more mana, so you can't use it to ramp t1.
    Hornet Sting Most t1 creatures have 1 toughness, right? Like I said, I went deep.

  16. #316

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Needs testing.
    The true problem with any choice. I don't have anywhere to test!

  17. #317
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    The true problem with any choice. I don't have anywhere to test!
    This is where you hop on twitch and watch [insert colors] Zenith/Uro midrange piles. You can see how these games play out. While you don't have 80 cards, you're still talking about playing basically their deck with 12x slots of Nought & enablers. Just pretend all their kill spells are Noughts and enablers.

    The same can be said for those who want to randomly add Worldgorger to [non-Zenith] Uro midrange - you don't really need to test if you're doing the same thing with more variance. In either case you're playing the same tap-out-and-jam strategy, just with less ability to jam.

  18. #318

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    This is where you hop on twitch and watch [insert colors] Zenith/Uro midrange piles. You can see how these games play out. While you don't have 80 cards, you're still talking about playing basically their deck with 12x slots of Nought & enablers. Just pretend all their kill spells are Noughts and enablers.
    That's a bad approach since you play a deck where the threats are the answers differently than you play a deck that answers things.
    The same can be said for those who want to randomly add Worldgorger to [non-Zenith] Uro midrange - you don't really need to test if you're doing the same thing with more variance. In either case you're playing the same tap-out-and-jam strategy, just with less ability to jam.
    *sigh*
    I have to assume you mean Sailors' Bane since it's the only 7/7 mentioned and no one is talking about Worldgorger Dragon.

  19. #319
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    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    I have to assume you mean Sailors' Bane since it's the only 7/7 mentioned and no one is talking about Worldgorger Dragon.
    He probably is talking about Worldgorger Dragon, another combo that has nothing to do with GSZ and Uro. Mixing two unrelated decks together. The analogy is that Dreadnought also has nothing to do with GSZ piles, so going deep in that direction doesn't necessarily make sense with the Dreadnought plan.

  20. #320

    Re: [Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    He probably is talking about Worldgorger Dragon, another combo that has nothing to do with GSZ and Uro. Mixing two unrelated decks together. The analogy is that Dreadnought also has nothing to do with GSZ piles, so going deep in that direction doesn't necessarily make sense with the Dreadnought plan.
    Then they would be speaking nonsense since a tutor reduces variance?

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