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Thread: Minotaurus Rex: How to deal with Stony Silence?

  1. #1

    Minotaurus Rex -> And quiet flows the Tron

    Hi Wizards!

    Modern Horizons II has paved the way for many new deck styles, so behold, some fermented experimentation:

    Minotaurus Rex (TM)

    Lands
    4x Urza's Saga
    4x Urza's Mine
    4x Urza's Power Plant
    4x Urza's Tower
    3x Shivan Reef
    1x Great Furnace
    2x Mystic Monastery
    4x Island

    Creatures
    4x Boros Battleshaper
    2x Moraug, Fury of Akoum
    2x Sethron, Hurloon General
    3x Trinket Mage
    1x Walking Ballista

    Artifacts
    4x Didgeridoo
    4x Expedition Map
    3x Thran Turbine
    2x Brainstone
    1x Pacification Array
    1x Pithing Needle
    1x Retrofitter Foundry

    Other
    4x Standstill
    2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

    Sideboard
    4x Sphere of Resistance
    4x Spell Snare
    2x Relic of Progenitus
    2x Vandalblast
    1x Elixir of Immortality
    1x Feldon's Cane
    1x Pithing Needle

    I have been building on this for some years now, but Urza's Saga really makes things possible and combines great with Standstill and Thran Turbine. Of course, this deck will struggle to perform competitively, although so far, the deck has done very well within our casual community.

    However, since my friend is playing Enchantments, he has access to Stony Silence, a card that singlehandedly turns down my toolbox that includes Didgeridoo, Expedition Map, Brainstone, Pacification Array, Retrofitter Foundry, etc.

    Do you have any suggestions on how to best go about Stony Silence with the colours blue and red?

    For now, I have sideboarded Spell Snare, but this does not remove the card if it actually hits the board.

    Hope you can help!



    UPDATE (16/12/2021):

    Hi again, fellow cardslingers!

    I have now played around with this deck for a while. Added some tempo, mainboarding a soft stax-strategy. Also, since I love Russian literature, I've changed the title to 'And quiet flows the Tron', reflecting how the Tron-strategy of this deck is part of a build-up towards the late game and a general mana advantage in stax conditions.

    Because of this more flowing build-up, I also decided to cut 1 Urza's Mine and Urza's Power Plant in favour of 2 copies of Wasteland. Regarding the main deck, my latest addition is Relic of Progenitus due to the overall legacy meta that very much and in various ways utilises GY. I am still struggling whether and how to include a 3rd Thran Turbine (it has proven very powerful, but of course it is sometimes a bit redundant) or maybe to not include a 3rd Thran Turbine but also cutting the 4th Expedition Map, thereby paving the way for, perhaps, a main deck Pithing Needle.

    What are your thoughts on this, and how about the last 3-4 slots in the SB? I feel like I have to address Ragavan more rapidly with 2x Gut Shot or 2x Hydroblast or is there something stronger, a more universal solution to 0-1 CMC creatures?

    Lands
    4x Seat of the Synod
    4x Urza's Saga
    4x Urza's Tower
    3x Urza's Mine
    3x Urza's Power Plant
    2x Glimmervoid
    2x Island
    2x Wasteland

    Creatures
    4x Boros Battleshaper
    2x Sethron, Hurloon General
    2x Morophon, the Boundless
    1x Moraug, Fury of Akoum

    Artifacts
    4x Didgeridoo
    4x Sphere of Resistance
    4x Expedition Map
    3x Mox Opal
    2x Tangle Wire
    2x Thran Turbine
    1x Relic of Progenitus
    1x Retrofitter Foundry

    Other
    3x Standstill
    2x Kozilek's Return
    1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

    Sideboard
    3x Spell Snare
    2x Spell Pierce
    2x Warping Wail
    1x Grafdigger's Cage
    1x Shadowspear
    1x Pithing Needle
    1x Tormod's Crypt
    1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
    Last edited by Slasker; 12-16-2021 at 07:52 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Minotaurus Rex: How to deal with Stony Silence?

    This deck is genius if only for someone realizing that Urza's Saga means you can finally play 8x Didgeridoo to make Minotaurs under T2 Standstill.

    Tron would usually kill Stony Silence with All is Dust or Karn Liberated (or Ugin). There might be some Karn TGC target that also kills it. That depends on hitting your mana though.

    If Stony Silence lands before you can assemble Tron mana, you could counter it or bounce it (Brazen Borrower). But playing Tron also makes that harder to do. Maybe you'll decide you don't actually need Tron mana here. It's only ramping to Ugin and hardcasting Minotaurs. If you had more colored lands instead you'd have more stable mana to run colored answers and you would be less mana-screwed by Stony Silence.

    Instead of Trinket Mage you could play Karn, the Great Creator, which is a much better artifact tutor and also easier to cast in your Tron manabase. It can also find better answers to the board state like Ensnaring Bridge instead of tutoring to just tap down 1 creature/artifact at a time. Karn can also get Crucible of Worlds, which can reuse Urza's Sagas or return Wasted Tron pieces. Karn can win through Stony Silence. It might be able to find a good answer too (1-of Spine of Ish Sah or Steel Hellkite)?

    I think you can cut some of the cheesy 1 cmc Saga targets, especially Brainstone in a deck that makes blue mana. The best ones are Didgeridoo, Map, and Foundry. Turbine is probably good enough in your build since you have so many uses for the mana, though you may get colorless mana overload with Tron too. Array seems mediocre. Karn also means you'd have access to more tutorable tools in game 1 without having to run so many mediocre tutor targets maindeck, freeing up space and improving draws.

  3. #3

    Re: Minotaurus Rex: How to deal with Stony Silence?

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    This deck is genius if only for someone realizing that Urza's Saga means you can finally play 8x Didgeridoo to make Minotaurs .
    That is indeed brilliant. Yes Saga can get a Didgerdoo into play under cards like Standstill or a Chalice on 1.

    I would want to try a colorless variant by cutting blue from the list and playing 4 Ancient Tomb, 4 City of Traitors, 4 Trinisphere etc.

  4. #4

    Re: Minotaurus Rex: How to deal with Stony Silence?

    Thanks a lot for such kind and detailed feedback - feel free to take out inspiration for other builds (I'll stay within RU for Standstill and the possibility of actually hard casting my minotaurs.

    I'll guess that, within the mainboard, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon must, for now, be the one to deal with Stony Silence, backed by Spell Snare from the SB. I prefer to stick with Ugin for this purpose, so that Replenish will not be able to bring these cards back into play.

    There is most certainly something to consider with Karn, the Great Creator as a substitute or supplement to Trinket Mage, and while, to my view, the Urzatron here accompanied by Thran Turbine is not as threatened by Wasteland as in other Tron decks, I have also thought a lot about how to best include Crucible of Worlds, especially since Armageddon is an everpresent danger in our meta. In regards to Thran Turbine, I see it as both a supplement to the Tron lands as well as a key component of the early game: creating constructs with Urza's Saga, cracking Expedition Map, dropping an early minotaur for board control.

    Some cheesy cards in here, yes, and you are probably right about Brainstone. I have also no affection for Pacification Array since, most importantly, I really don't like the artwork or frame design :) However, I have found myself tutoring for it several times because it can tap a creature while avoiding colour protection from Mother of Runes or Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.

  5. #5
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    Re: Minotaurus Rex: How to deal with Stony Silence?

    If you run Karn, the Great Creators then you can hide some "answers" in the SB and have access to them in game 1. For example, you could have a card like Spine of Ish Sah to remove Stony Silence/Collector Ouphe/Null Rod. You could have 1 Ensnaring Bridge, which also stops Emrakul or Mother+big creature. The advantage of a card like Bridge is it stops multiple attackers while Pacification Array can only handle 1 threat and costs mana each turn. But cards like Bridge and Spine are very bad when you don't need them, so you can keep them in the SB and only get them with Karn if you need them.

    Karn would also let you get Crucible of Worlds when you need it, without using up maindeck space.

    Karn into Mycosynth Lattice will also just win you many games, and your manabase makes it easier to cast Lattice than most decks.

    Edit: For example, consider something like this (I assume Volcanic Island is out of budget)


    //Lands: 26
    4 Urza's Saga
    4 Urza's Mine
    4 Urza's Power Plant
    4 Urza's Tower
    2 Fiery Islet
    2 Shivan Reef
    6 Island

    //Enchantments: 4
    4 Standstill

    //Artifacts: 12
    4 Expedition Map
    3 Didgeridoo
    3 Thran Turbine
    1 Retrofitter Foundry
    1 Mox Opal

    //Creatures: 13
    3 Trinket Mage
    3 Moraug, Fury of Akoum
    3 Morophon, the Boundless
    4 Boros Battleshaper

    //Planeswalkers: 5
    4 Karn, the Great Creator
    1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Didgeridoo
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Walking Ballista
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Spine of Ish Sah
    4 Sphere of Resistance
    2 Swan Song
    1 Negate


    That gives you 14 virtual copies of Didgeridoo!! Or you could play the 4th main for slightly higher odds of turn 1s, but losing Karn to find it.

    Morophon seems very strong in the Tron manabase. Not only is it easier to hardcast, but it also reduces the colored cost of everything else so they're easier to cast without colored mana. With that trick plus 1 Mox Opal (via Trinket Mage or Saga), you should be able to cut white from the manabase and run more basics to have more stable mana and no ETB tapped lands.

    Spell Snare is probably too narrow unless you also have a problem with a lot of 2 drop creatures like Tarmogoyf, Stoneforge Mystic and Dark Confidant. That depends on your meta. Overall I think the format has moved away from Spell Snare being good. You could play other counters that also answer Stony Silence.
    Last edited by FTW; 07-15-2021 at 10:38 PM.

  6. #6

    Re: Minotaurus Rex: How to deal with Stony Silence?

    Thanks, Mox Opal for Great Furnace is very great!

    And Morophon, the Boundless - it's been a while since I last checked for changelings, and now they have printed this one :)

  7. #7
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    Re: Minotaurus Rex: How to deal with Stony Silence?

    At the risk of asking the obvious, what does blue give you that a more traditional green tron shell wouldn’t? Ancient Stirrings is cheap and would help a lot and honestly sticking to monogreen makes the deck cheaper and gives you lots of answers to enchantments
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  8. #8

    Re: Minotaurus Rex: How to deal with Stony Silence?

    I guess it's a question of preference. In my opinion, what makes a strong deck is to have a solid early game and different ways to develop into mid- and late game. So, to be all too focused on getting the last piece of the Urza-puzzle (which is how I perceive the green version) is in my view a sign of weakness. Instead, if you play with several strategies, you are not as vulnerable, if one of them fails. To me, at least, the upside of card advantage with Standstill and tutoring with Trinket Mage is greater than the upside of having answers for sideboard cards, however strong as they are.

  9. #9
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    Re: Minotaurus Rex: How to deal with Stony Silence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slasker View Post
    I guess it's a question of preference. In my opinion, what makes a strong deck is to have a solid early game and different ways to develop into mid- and late game. So, to be all too focused on getting the last piece of the Urza-puzzle (which is how I perceive the green version) is in my view a sign of weakness. Instead, if you play with several strategies, you are not as vulnerable, if one of them fails. To me, at least, the upside of card advantage with Standstill and tutoring with Trinket Mage is greater than the upside of having answers for sideboard cards, however strong as they are.
    I agree. Standstill adds a lot to this deck. Early Standstill + Saga/Didgeridoo is hard for an opponent to deal with. You can get a bit of the best of both if you can find room for Karn (card advantage, tutor, access to answers for SB cards albeit not the best answers).

    I'll ask the opposite question: how much does UrzaTron add here? Do you need all that colorless mana and Ugin? The Urza lands cast Ugin and can hardcast the Minotaurs, but if you have enough ways to get Didgeridoo then maybe you don't need that. What if you just play a regular UR manabase? Then you have more stable mana and can run more interactive colored spells to deal with the opponent's disruption.

    If you keep the UrzaTron ramp, what about playing 1 Eye of Ugin? You can find it with Expedition Map. It searches for Morophon, the Boundless and reduces the cost to 5 mana (or you can make them with Didgeridoo). Not bad value for a land slot. Another cool toolbox land would be 1 Academy Ruins, but that requires you to have consistent blue mana.

  10. #10

    Re: Minotaurus Rex: How to deal with Stony Silence?

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I'll ask the opposite question: how much does UrzaTron add here? Do you need all that colorless mana and Ugin? The Urza lands cast Ugin and can hardcast the Minotaurs, but if you have enough ways to get Didgeridoo then maybe you don't need that. What if you just play a regular UR manabase? Then you have more stable mana and can run more interactive colored spells to deal with the opponent's disruption.
    Do you mean apart from having four of each old school artwork in black border as the core of your mana base?
    In games, I find the extra mana extremely valuable, so that I can cast more than one minotaur in the same turn while at the same time being able to play other spells for further advantages. Also, I very often tutor for either Walking Ballista (via Trinket) or Retrofitter Foundry (via Urza's Saga or Trinket) for further utilization of the UrzaTron. Initially, I experimented with Well of Knowledge to max out on draw, but this is long gone since I couldn't tutor for it, and it doesn't synergize with Thran Turbine.

    I would also like to add some thoughts on the (lack of) blue mana. With 10 sources of blue mana in the deck, there will be times, when I don't have any at all early game, although Expedition Map and Urza's Saga can fix this rather quickly. To be able to play a T2 Standstill is super great, but, in reverse, to "miss out" on this for a turn or two is not that horrible either. There are plenty of other activities to make, and Standstill will, throughout most games, remain a great spell to play.

  11. #11
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    Re: Minotaurus Rex: How to deal with Stony Silence?

    Are we seriously discussing minotaurvantage, am I being trolled
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  12. #12
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    Re: Minotaurus Rex: How to deal with Stony Silence?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    Are we seriously discussing minotaurvantage, am I being trolled
    Nah, you're not being trolled. It's a New and Developmental Decks thread. No one is assuming this deck is Tier 1.

    @Slasker: You're less likely to see Stony Silence in Legacy than Collector Ouphe or Null Rod, so you could play Abrade, which has wide utility. If you prize flexibility at the cost of power level, Chaos Warp is another option.

  13. #13

    Re: Minotaurus Rex: How to deal with Stony Silence?

    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    @Slasker: You're less likely to see Stony Silence in Legacy than Collector Ouphe or Null Rod, so you could play Abrade, which has wide utility. If you prize flexibility at the cost of power level, Chaos Warp is another option.
    Thanks for these suggestions to you and everybody else. I'll test a bit against my local paper-meta and return in a while with my conclusions for those of you interested in a sincere, albeit, of course, not competitively minded discussion.

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    Re: Minotaurus Rex: How to deal with Stony Silence?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    Are we seriously discussing minotaurvantage, am I being trolled
    Whenever you see a decklist with 4 Didgeridoo, it has to be considered in the context of decks running Didgeridoo.

    This is a thing some Magic players like to play. Others just sleeve up their flip cards for Insectile Aberration. As far as Didgeridoo decks go, this SagaStillTron thing is pretty good tech.

    @OP: Given you're in a small paper meta and you were worried about Enchantress with Stony Silence, I wouldn't rely on Abrade. Try for something that can kill an artifact, enchantment or creature. Spell Snare does answer all those cards. 1-of Blast Zone is an option tutorable with Map (in response or in advance).
    Last edited by FTW; 07-19-2021 at 09:23 AM.

  15. #15

    Re: Minotaurus Rex: How to deal with Stony Silence?

    Some suggestions:

    You are in legacy, I am not sure why we are playing urza tron instead of 12 post. Especially since you don’t really need 7 mana, more like 3 or 4.

    I think you have to decide if you are a Thran turbine deck or not. Cut the blue cards and play more Retrofitter foundries and such, or cut the turbines and brainstones for mana rocks that can cast your spells (Izzet signet, coalition relic)

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    Re: Minotaurus Rex: How to deal with Stony Silence?

    It's paper, so I assume it's a combination of budget and card availability reasons (no Volcanics) and wanting to play with pimp cards in current collection (black-bordered Tron lands mentioned above).

    1-of Candelabra of Tawnos would be an amazing Saga target if the deck wants a lot of colorless mana, but is probably out of budget.

    Morophon and Karn->Lattice do add more payoffs for assembling Tron than the OP list has.

  17. #17

    Re: Minotaurus Rex: How to deal with Stony Silence?

    Hi there, updated decklist, see above (initial post)

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