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Thread: [Format] Martian Timewalk

  1. #61

    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    Cool lists! I'm looking forward to trying them out.

    I wonder if counterspells are really the best way to fight TurboTwist. The trouble is that a 2-mana counter is too slow for a turn-one Hypnotic Specter or big Mind Twist, and a 2-mana counter is also too slow against Sinkholes when you're on the draw. Of course, most other strategies will struggle with those threats too, so that's just another way of saying TurboTwist is very strong! I suspect that the best way to beat it is by proactively emptying your hand fast, spending your deck points on fast mana. That way, when you're on the play, you can get in under a turn-one Mind Twist. I suspect Big Red isn't as strong as TurboTwist overall, but it beat TurboTwist in the first gauntlet by having openings like Land -> Sol Ring -> Sol Ring -> Morph Akroma, where you have a lot of game even if your hand gets discarded afterward. Of course, Bant Control looks like it'll do great against anything as soon as it has two untapped lands in play.

    I bet Radha, Heir to Keld would be a good fit in RG ChannelBall. It makes green mana, or you can attack and spend the temporary red mana to remove a blocker using Lightning Bolt or Incinerate. I even wonder about Llanowar Elves as a mana-making attacker? Life totals matter so much for that deck.

    I've been thinking about something like this.

    \\Mana: 24 (7 Mox = 7)
    4 Badlands
    4 Scrubland
    4 Plateau
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Mox Jet
    2 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Pearl
    3 Rocky Tar Pit

    \\Creatures: 14
    3 Goblin Tinkerer
    3 Dwarven Miner
    4 Blightspeaker
    2 Dunerider Outlaw
    1 Big Game Hunter
    1 Rathi Trapper

    \\Spells: 19
    4 Mind Twist
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Disenchant
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Sinkhole

    \\Empty slots: 3
    Stupor
    Sedge Troll
    Jayemdae Tome
    Shadow Guildmage

    Choke the mana, remove everything, Mind Twist for value but you're not all-in on it. Win with rebels, or add threats in the empty slots, or exchange the rebels for Hypnotic Specter and other good stuff. (Does this want to be a Dark Ritual deck? It's hard with 3 colors).

  2. #62
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    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    I wonder if counterspells are really the best way to fight TurboTwist. The trouble is that a 2-mana counter is too slow for a turn-one Hypnotic Specter or big Mind Twist, and a 2-mana counter is also too slow against Sinkholes when you're on the draw.
    Yeah, 2-mana counters are slow, since TurboTwist is designed to turbo out under 2-mana counters. What should help is the whole Ancestral Recalls + Regrowth thing. That's basically how RUG ChannelFireball kept beating it in my gauntlet. You could attack RUG's hand, but then RUG quickly redraws more cards and stabilizes.

    TurboTwist also lacks win conditions (it consumes a lot of resources to gain tempo on opponent), so if you can redraw into counters and removal, you should be able to answer the wincons and then eventually start countering the next haymakers.

    Proactive is another approach. That's what Big Red was aiming for. It has a couple ways to not get blown out by Mind Twist (Sol ring acceleration, Hammer, madness creature, Wheel redraw).

    Yeah, Radha and Llanowar Elves might help RG Channel. Ramp + damage is what the deck needs to get ahead for Channel.

    Your RWB deck looks good. Mix of discard and heavy mana denial, a lot of disruption and card advantage with less card disadvantage. Worth testing in the next gauntlet.

  3. #63

    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    What should help is the whole Ancestral Recalls + Regrowth thing. That's basically how RUG ChannelFireball kept beating it in my gauntlet. You could attack RUG's hand, but then RUG quickly redraws more cards and stabilizes.
    That makes sense. I haven't tested the new UWG against Mono-Black yet, but against other stuff, the Ancestral Recall + Regrowth plan feels like you're playing a whole different game.

    Have we been sleeping on Magus of the Library? Does the Channel deck want to be a hand-size-matters deck with Ivory Tower, Magus, Harmonize, Regrowth, and Wheel of Fortune? At least it would be good at drawing the combo... and you could use spare RX spells as board control. Hmm.

  4. #64
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    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    Have we been sleeping on Magus of the Library? Does the Channel deck want to be a hand-size-matters deck with Ivory Tower, Magus, Harmonize, Regrowth, and Wheel of Fortune? At least it would be good at drawing the combo... and you could use spare RX spells as board control. Hmm.
    I considered an 8x Library UGx control deck with that plan, when I first thought that Library of Alexandria evaded your point list (forgetting it was not in ABU). The main obstacle is the need to keep 7 cards in hand. That's hard in a format with Mind Twists and explosive early plays that demand interaction. The glue holding it together was Ancestral + Regrowth. That made it possible to consistently stay at 7 cards when needed, triggering the Libraries and Ivory Tower. Harmonize helps too. You can even run Library of Leng in the 75 to go over 7 cards as well as hate on discard.

    (pre-bans)
    4 Ancestral
    4 Mystical
    4 Regrowth
    4 Ivory Tower
    4 Library/Magus
    1 Braingeyser
    1 Timetwister

    (post-bans)
    3 Ancestral
    1 Mystical
    4 Regrowth
    4 Harmonize
    4 Ivory Tower
    4 Library/Magus
    1 Braingeyser

    I didn't commit to this plan for RUG ChannelBall because Magus was bad with the reactive counterspell plan, but that shell could have abused a Library effect well.

    I never thought about it for RG. Maybe it could help Channel+Fireball. I think it would be hard to get to 7 cards without the Ancestral train. D7s could help. The downsides of Magus are that it's fragile and it doesn't do anything proactive when you're below 7 cards. Without Ancestral though, you get a lot more points for other effects. Sol Ring would help power out Harmonize and D7s. There might be something there.

  5. #65

    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    I played most of a third gauntlet of the second leg of the Alpha/Beta rotation.

    I reached the point where Big Red had secured a spot in the finals, with the other finals spot being contested by UW MaskNought and UWG Control.

    I'm a bit short on time and won't finish before next point adjustment, which is on Jan 1; however, it is a mathematical certainty that the outcomes of the remaining matches won't affect the point adjustment. This is because a mono-red deck placed first or second in all three gauntlets, while the other finalist decks were very different from each other (GW NettleGeddon, Mono-Black TurboTwist, a blue deck), with no cards overlapping all three. What's more, no cards from the other finalist decks also exist in any of the mono-red decks, so the algorithm will be forced to give points to some cluster of cards that are present in all three red decks.

    Challenge: Mess up my math before Jan 1 by sharing your own test results! :D

    Happy new year. Write-up below.


    *** First Round ***
    Mono-Green Stompy 2 > 1 Mono-Black TurboTwist
    G1: Mono-Black kept a hand with a Dunerider Outlaw, but Mono-Green played land, Black Lotus, Juggernaut and handily won the race.
    G2: Lifeforce on turn 2 was too slow to stop two Dunerider Outlaws.
    G3: Another first-turn Juggernaut spearheaded a successful assault for Mono-Green Stompy.

    UW DreadMask 2 > 0 RG Channel Burn
    [My wife: "Sorry, 'MaskNought' sounds stupid. Why not call it 'DreadMask'?"]
    G1: A two-land hand for the Channel deck took too long to shape up, letting UW cruise to victory.
    G2: UW had a turn-three Phyrexian Dreadnought with countermagic backup; RG was too slow.

    UWG Control 2 > 0 RWB Destroy-All
    G1: RWB didn't sufficiently disrupt the hand or mana of UWG, so a Crovax, Ascendant Hero dodged three copies of Swords to Plowshares and then won.
    G2: Weird game with both Karma and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in play. UWG won with the power of Ivory Tower.

    *** Round of Eight ***
    Big Red 2 > 1 UW Stasis Prison
    G1: Big Red won a long game by casting a Wheel of Fortune that decked UW.
    G2: UW Stasis lost because of a crucial error on my part; if I'd tutored for Island Sanctuary instead of Stasis, I can't think of a way it could have lost, given the game state. I award a win to UW Stasis.
    G3: Big Red cast Torchling on turn 2 and hardcast Akroma, Angel of Fury on turn 4, sealing the match. One Sol Ring is good, two are better.

    Red Deck Wins 2 > 1 BW 8-Twist
    G1: A first-turn Goblin Tinkerer played an outsized role in this back-and-forth game in which BW eventually stabilized the board but succumbed to burn spells.
    G2: BW ground RDW to dust with multiple copies Balance while hiding behind Circle of Protection: Red.
    G3: BW played a Circle of Protection: Red when at 1 life. Flashfires and a particularly active Dwarven Miner ensured that BW didn't have enough mana to actually use the COP. RDW won.

    UWG Control 2 > 0 Mono-Green Stompy
    G1: UWG countered most of the early threats, pulled ahead with Ancestral Recall, and took over with Sacred Mesa. (With just one less counterspell, UWG would have lost the game to Groundbreaker + Berserk!)
    G2: Three Ivory Towers and seemingly endless Ancestral Recall + Regrowth hand refills were too much for Mono-Green. Not even Tsunami could do enough. UWG won comfortably.

    UW DreadMask 2 > 0 GW NettleGeddon
    G1: Smooth sailing for UW; Swords to Plowshares x2, countermagic, lots of land drops, a Sacred Mesa for the win, and a Phyrexian Dreadnought to hasten the inevitable.
    G2: Porphyry Nodes stops the initial aggro rush and then a fast Phyrexian Dreadnought, nullifying the potential Armageddon follow-up, seals the match.

    *** Round of Four ***
    Big Red 2 > 1 Red Deck Wins
    G1: RDW, after mulliganing to five cards, had a vicious opening of Black Vise, turn-two Wheel of Fortune off a mox, Ankh of Mishra, and three Lightning Bolts.
    G2: Big Red won with Akroma, Angel of Fury, although it was close because of RDW's Manabarbs from the sideboard.
    G3: Big Red won the damage race with 2 life remaining. Both victories in this match were made possible by Sol Ring, which allowed the otherwise slower deck to play its cards fast.

    UW MaskNought ?:? UWG Control
    Game 1 is taking forever and I don't know if I'll finish it before the format rotates on Jan 1. We'll see...

  6. #66
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    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    These matches sound so fun! Explosive games like Turn 1 Juggernaut and Turn 3 Dreadnought, but also grindfests like multiple Balance, destroying all lands to turn off CoP: Red, decking with Wheel of Fortune, Ivory Tower grinding out Karma, and Crovax dodging 3 removals.

    I'll try to get in a few matches before Jan 1st.

  7. #67

    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    Yes, the matches have been fun!

    I finished up the third gauntlet after all. UWG Control came in first place, with Big Red in second place.

    *** Round of Four (continued) ***
    UWG Control 2 > 0 UW DreadMask
    G1: Phyrexian Dreadnought shenanigans didn't benefit DreadMask against UWG, whereas Regrowth was a huge asset for UWG in ensuring that it won the subgame of "who can keep a Sacred Mesa in play."
    G2: After a long struggle for card advantage, UWG won using Crovax, Ascendant Hero instead of Sacred Mesa because UW DreadMask had too many copies of Disenchant.

    *** Finals ***
    UWG Control 2 > 1 Big Red
    G1: UWG won with Crovax, Ascendant Hero. Perhaps I misplayed Big Red's side --- twice I played a morphed Akroma, Angel of Fury, the first Angel meeting a Swords to Plowshares and the second a Dissipate. It might have been better to wait for eight mana and hardcast an uncounterable Angel with protection from white.
    G2: A first-turn Dwarven Miner hampered UWG's development, and before UWG was quite on its feet, Akroma, Angel of Fury was attacking for 13 damage at a time.
    G3: UWG answered an Akroma by casting Conversion, turning off the firebreathing ability. UWG hid, with little life left, in its Ivory Towers. The pressure mounted as Big Red played two morphed Angels and attacked for 10 damage a turn, but UWG finished the tournament with a topdecked Wrath of God.

  8. #68
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    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    I tested Big Red against a range of decks, because I was curious if it was the best.

    Big Red loss vs Mono Green (WLL): Lost both games to Berserk+Groundbreaker. Might have misplayed one. I could avoided a loss by leaving up Bolt mana, but T2 Gauntlet seemed like a good play vs doing nothing (but cost 18 damage).

    Big Red win vs Nettlegeddon (WW): Akroma + Gauntlet won both games while removal kept early threats off the board. Geddon came too late.

    Big Red loss vs 8Twist (LL): G1 it beat 2 Akromas (StP on Morph, ETutor-> Meekstone on 2nd). G2 Turn 3 Conversion (off ETutor + Ritual) with Balance to clean up the board.

    Big Red win vs TurboTwist (LWW): G1 had Turn 2 6Twist + double Rack. G2 and G3 were both swung by Goblin Tinkerer + Akroma.

    Big Red loss vs Bantcestral (LL): G1 I tried to slow play Akroma at 8 mana to dodge StP & counters, which was wise because Bant answered every other creature. Meanwhile Bant stalled with Ivory Tower life gain and Disenchants to keep Big Red off 8 mana for a long time. By the time Akroma landed, Bant had Wrath. G2 ramping out Detrivore X=3 did some early work as uncounterable repeat-LD, but Ivory Tower + CoP: Red + 2 basics stalled. Big Red was forced to go wide, which walked into double Wrath. That was enough time for 4x Ancestral -> lands -> Sacred Mesa.

    Bant seems very strong. Its biggest weakness would be losing to a fast start if it doesn't have the answers in hand (RDW or Green stompy). Once it gets the late game, it's extremely good at stabilizing, outdrawing the opponent, and having more answers. Unsurprisingly, casting multiple Ancestral Recall and hiding behind Ivory Towers is a good game plan. Because the wincons are so compact, it has more room for answers than the other blue decks. I'm not surprised it beat UW Dreadmask, which ends up with less available cards after making its threats.

  9. #69

    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    Thanks for sharing! I'm glad Mono-Green Stompy finally got to do the Groundbreaker + Berserk thing :-)

    I agree with everything you said about Bant. It's a great deck in the format, maybe the strongest deck in the current batch.

    I realized that my third gauntlet had enough decks that my algorithm wants to know the top 3 placements, not just the top 2.

    *** Third Place Match (from my third gauntlet of this rotation) ***
    UW DreadMask 2 > 1 Red Deck Wins
    G1: Fast DreadNought, removal for the necessary things.
    G2: RDW puts UW in a terrible spot with Ankh of Mishra and then Manabarbs. UW doesn't find an escape before running out of life.
    G3: Goblin Tinkerers are at the ready, but UW can go Enlightened Tutor -> Cursed Totem and still has the combo in hand. Dead // Gone bounces a Dreadnought, but since it was put in play with Illusionary Mask and not Reality Ripple, it can easily be replayed by UW. Illusionary Mask is definitely an upgrade for the Dreadnought strategy. UW takes third place!
    ***

    With this third place result and with FTW joining the cause of #FreeLightningBolt (i.e., sharing test results where red didn't dominate), I'm no longer certain that points will be added to red cards... I have some spreadsheets to crunch. The results may be late, but I'll rotate the points very soon!

  10. #70

    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    Format update: January 1, 2022

    Automatic point adjustments:
    Swords to Plowshares -> 1 pt (up from 0 pt)
    Nevinyrral's Disk -> 1 pt (up from 0 pt)
    Sand Golem -> 1 pt (down from 2 pt)
    Counterspell -> 0 pt (down from 1 pt)

    Next automatic point adjustment: January 15, 2022
    Next random set added: January 15, 2022

    See OP for complete info.

  11. #71
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    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    Big Red survives! Big Red, RDW, and MonoG remain unchanged. SB Sand Golem still isn't worth 1 pt yet.

    TurboTwist and RG Channel are almost unchanged, needing to reconsider how much they need Disk.

    BW 8Twist can probably swap StP for Paralyze. Balance and discard create enough mana pressure to make Paralyze punishing.

    Nettlegeddon has to decide whether to cut back on Moxen or StPs. StP is hard to replace in GW, so maybe Moxen need to be cut.

    UW Stasis gets to upgrade Memory Lapse to Counterspell!

    Other UW will need to reconsider how much they need white without StP. Bantcestral could swap into Porphyry Nodes or switch to BUG with black spot removal and Damnation.


    Bantcestral (3 Ancestral +1 Mystical = 7 pts)

    //Lands: 23
    4 Grasslands
    4 Bad River
    4 Tropical Island
    4 Tundra
    4 Savannah
    1 Island
    1 Plains
    1 Forest

    //Spells: 28
    3 Ancestral Recall
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Mystical Tutor
    4 Regrowth
    4 Counterspell
    4 Memory Lapse
    4 Power Sink
    3 Disenchant
    3 Wrath of God

    //Artifacts: 4
    4 Ivory Tower

    //Enchantments: 4
    3 Porphyry Nodes
    1 Sacred Mesa

    //Creatures: 1
    1 Crovax, Ascendant Hero

    //Sideboard: 15
    2 Voidstone Gargoyle
    1 Wrath of God
    1 Disenchant
    1 Seeds of Innocence
    1 Tranquility
    1 Braingeyser
    1 Volcanic Eruption
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Karma
    1 Conversion
    1 Lifetap
    1 Lifeforce
    1 Circle of Protection: Red
    1 Cursed Totem



    BUG Control (3 Ancestral + 1 Demonic = 7 pts)

    //Lands: 24
    4 Bad River
    2 Rocky Tar Pit
    1 Grasslands
    4 Underground Sea
    4 Tropical Island
    4 Bayou
    2 Island
    2 Swamp
    1 Forest

    //Spells: 28
    3 Paralyze
    3 Ancestral Recall
    1 Demonic Tutor
    4 Regrowth
    2 Terror
    4 Counterspell
    4 Memory Lapse
    4 Power Sink
    3 Damnation

    //Artifacts: 4
    4 Ivory Tower

    //Creatures: 4
    2 Aeon Chronicler
    1 Mist Dragon
    1 Vorosh, the Hunter

    //Sideboard: 15
    3 Blue Elemental Blast
    3 Seal of Primordium
    1 Tranquility
    1 Seeds of Innocence
    1 Damnation
    1 Volcanic Eruption
    1 Braingeyser
    1 Mind Twist
    1 Lifeforce
    1 Deathgrip
    1 Gloom


    Don't know whether Memory Lapse or Dissipate is better. I'm starting with Memory Lapse because I think there are enough sorcery speed plays that needing 2 mana open vs 3 mana open will make a bigger difference than having a permanent answer. But maybe Dissipate is better than Power Sink in counter wars?

    I'll try to get some games in before the Jan 15th adjustment (very soon!).
    Last edited by FTW; 01-12-2022 at 05:32 PM.

  12. #72

    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    You’re a champ, FTW. I haven’t managed to test this rotation at all. I’m going to slightly adjust future rotation schedules so that two-week-long rotations won’t happen. Two weeks doesn’t feel like enough time for testing.

    I like the use of dragons in that BUG list! Also like Volcanic Eruption in the SB. As for 1x Mystical Tutor, I assume that's just copied over from the UWG Control design, and we prefer Demonic Tutor in BUG?

    BW 8-Twist doesn’t much mind the loss of StP, I suspect; I played several games in which BW really wanted to empty its hand for a big Balance and there were no creatures on board, so StP was trapped in the hand. I think the deck fares well against creatures in general, so perhaps the swap could be something that works proactively. Relative to the list on page 2, I like -4 StP (because now StP costs points), +1 Paralyze, +1 Jade Statue, +1 Porphyry Nodes, +1 Stupor maindeck.

    And yes, hooray for Big Red :-)
    Last edited by BirdsOfParadise; 01-12-2022 at 04:55 PM.

  13. #73
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    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    I'll try out those changes, thanks! Demonic Tutor wins over Mystical. Maybe BW doesn't need 4 spot removal, so I'll try those other cards.

    Volcanic Eruption seemed like a strong way to fight back against the strong red decks.

  14. #74

    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    You’re a champ, FTW. I haven’t managed to test this rotation at all. I’m going to slightly adjust future rotation schedules so that two-week-long rotations won’t happen. Two weeks doesn’t feel like enough time for testing.
    That's probably because it doesn't have the amount of games played that something like Standard does. (Martians are probably busy with other pursuits, it seems.)

  15. #75

    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    That's probably because it doesn't have the amount of games played that something like Standard does. (Martians are probably busy with other pursuits, it seems.)
    Dunno about the Martians but I have two children under age 3 xD (but yes, you're exactly right!)

    Welcome to the thread and feel free to join us in brewing/testing if you'd like!

    ***

    Edit: If these three-color blue control decks are going to be in the top tier --- and UWG certainly was in the last rotation --- I'll be adding Detritivores to Big Red's sideboard. Uncounterable, recurring land destruction that synergizes with the deck's plan? Sounds great. FTW suggested it a while ago, but I didn't really see it being useful until these three-color decks with lots of countermagic started showing up.
    Last edited by BirdsOfParadise; 01-13-2022 at 12:07 PM.

  16. #76

    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    Format update: January 15, 2022

    New random set added: War of the Spark

    Automatic point adjustments:
    Ancestral Recall is now worth 1 pt (down from 2 pt)
    Flood Plain is now worth 0 pt (down from 1 pt)
    Bad River is now worth 1 pt (up from 0 pt)
    Enlightened Tutor is now worth 1 pt (up from 0 pt)

    Next automatic point adjustment: February 16, 2022
    Next random set added: April 1, 2022

    See OP for complete info.
    Last edited by BirdsOfParadise; 01-15-2022 at 07:12 PM.

  17. #77

    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    War of the Spark has a lot of powerful cards, that's for sure. I'll start here. Planeswalkers add a lot to the mono-black Rack deck.

    \\Mana: 24
    3 Sol Ring
    4 Black Lotus
    4 Dark Ritual
    13 Swamp

    \\Action: 36
    4 The Rack
    4 Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage
    4 Hypnotic Specter
    4 Stupor
    4 Karn, the Great Creator
    4 Mind Twist
    4 Sinkhole
    4 Dreadhorde Invasion
    4 Paralyze

    Sideboard:
    1 Illusionary Mask
    1 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    1 Paupers' Cage
    1 Juggernaut
    1 God-Pharaoh's Statue
    4 Disrupting Scepter
    2 Gloom
    2 The Elderspell
    2 Deathgrip

    I like both Saheeli and Karn in Big Red. And Hammer of Bogardan sounds powerful with Saheeli and against enemy planeswalkers in long games.

    I've updated my RUG Arcanist list:

    RUG Arcanist (4 Ancestral + 3 Mystical = 7)
    \\ Core (19):
    4 Ancestral Recall
    4 Dreadhorde Arcanist
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Mystical Tutor
    4 Regrowth

    \\ Support (9):
    2 Piracy Charm
    3 Sapphire Charm
    2 Saheeli, Sublime Artificer
    2 Narset, Parter of Veils

    \\ Extra Control (9):
    4 Memory Lapse
    3 Counterspell
    1 Return to Nature
    1 Red Elemental Blast

    \\ Lands (23):
    4 Volcanic Island
    4 Taiga
    4 Tropical Island
    4 Mountain Valley
    4 Island
    2 Mountain
    1 Forest

    \\ Sideboard (15):
    3 Red Elemental Blast
    4 Blue Elemental Blast
    2 Seeds of Innocence
    3 Dwarven Miner
    2 Fork
    1 Lazotep Plating

    Maybe:
    Krenko, Tin-Street Kingpin
    God-Eternal Kefnet

    I wonder if there are enough threats. The trouble is that there aren't any worthwhile proactive plays at 1 mana. Do I bring back Granger Guildmage? Maybe add something more expensive but also more powerful, like Krenko, Tin-Street Kingpin or God-Eternal Kefnet?
    Last edited by BirdsOfParadise; 01-16-2022 at 12:48 PM.

  18. #78
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    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    Nice decks! Davriel is a big upgrade for Rack+Mind Twist decks. Narset is great for blue control. Karn seems good in a lot of decks.

    For that black deck, 4 Disrupting Scepter seems like overkill. It's very mana-hungry. I've never wanted more than 1 copy in play at a time. 1 should be enough with Karn. Other SB slots could go to Damnation!


    I had tested a few games before the rotation but forgot to post them before Friday the 14th.

    BW 8Twist vs Big Red 2-0
    Porphyry Nodes did a lot of work both games, since it can remove multiple creatures and removes Protection from White creatures! Coupled with discard, the red deck was punished for playing out too many creatures or punished for keeping creatures in hand!

    BW 8Twist vs Nettlegeddon 2-0
    Porphyry Nodes + discard again really punished Nettlegeddon for its strategy of trying to flood the board before Armageddon.

    BW 8Twist vs Mono G 1-2
    Postboard games were swung by heavy sideboarding: disenchants, Lifeforce, and more threats over the Berserk strategy.

    Bant vs Nettlegeddon 2-0
    Boarding in Tsunamis wasn't enough now that Bant has Counterspell, Porphyry Nodes, and Wraths

  19. #79

    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    Thanks, FTW, for sharing!
    You're right about Disrupting Scepter. I admit it, I'm completely lazy when it comes to making a sideboard!

    I've adjusted the points and edited the announcement. Bad River now costs 1, ETutor now costs 1, Flood Plain is free again, and the big change is that Ancestral Recall is 1 pt again. (Bear in mind, gentle reader, that the point algorithm has stickiness: If a card bounces back and forth between two point values, it will get "stuck" for longer and longer at the higher value. Next time Ancestral Recall gets bumped to 2 pt --- which could be next rotation, if it's the most commonly used card among successful decks --- it will stay there for longer.)

    How many Ancestral Recalls can we resolve before February 16?

    ***

    Deck ideas:

    Time Vault and Saheeli, Sublime Artificer can buy you two free turns. You just need a spare artifact, which could even be the Servo that Saheeli gives you when you cast Time Vault as long as you can wait for the summoning sickness. Other cards that support this interaction are Karn, the Great Creator (which can let you store a single Time Vault in the sideboard and still have up to four ways to get it) and Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner, which gives you seven extra turns with Time Vault. So far the deck could be mono-blue, maybe spending points on 4x Sol Ring and 2x Mana Vault (and the Time Vault in the sideboard), since the deck is hungry for noncreature spells and generic mana, and both of these improve Kiora's ramping ability. One could even go as far as adding Basalt Monolith if one wanted to go in a MUD direction, or alternatively one could try to be more controlling with counterspells and protect the combo. I doubt the controlling plan would be as good as RUG Arcanist, and I've been wanting to play mono-blue MUD. You could punish the card-drawing decks with Black Vise, equalize things with Howling Mine, and improve consistency and speed with Copy Artifact.

    Alternatively, Channel seems fun. Karn, Ugin the Ineffable, and God-Pharaoh's Statue are all cards that would be great to play on turn two with Channel or to ramp into by normal means. Also, how about T1 Llanowar Elves, T2 Channel > Karn > Kiora > use Karn to fetch Time Vault > take seven more turns > tick Karn up > get Illusionary Mask > get Phyrexian Dreadnought > play Dreadnought > attack twice. The opponent still hasn't had a second turn!
    Last edited by BirdsOfParadise; 01-16-2022 at 01:03 PM.

  20. #80

    Re: [Format] Martian Timewalk

    Here's what I've been trying out in the past couple of days:

    All-In Black (4 Lotus, 2 Sol Ring, 1 SB Time Vault = 7)
    // 13 Artifact
    4 Black Lotus
    3 God-Pharaoh's Statue
    4 Basalt Monolith
    2 Sol Ring

    // 4 Creature
    4 Simian Spirit Guide

    // 4 Instant
    4 Dark Ritual

    // 21 Land
    4 Bayou
    4 Underground Sea
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Badlands
    4 Crystal Vein
    4 Swamp

    // 12 Planeswalker
    4 Karn, the Great Creator
    4 Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner
    4 Ugin, the Ineffable

    // 6 Sorcery
    4 Mind Twist
    2 Shrouded Lore

    // 6 Sideboard
    SB: 1 God-Pharaoh's Statue
    SB: 1 Time Vault
    SB: 1 Illusionary Mask
    SB: 1 Meekstone
    SB: 1 Detritivore
    SB: 1 Phyrexian Dreadnought


    The idea is to cast something really big on turn one or two. Your big plays are Ugin, the Ineffable; God-Pharaoh's Statue; Mind Twist, the success of which depends on your available follow-up spells; and Karn, the Great Creator. Karn is fun because you can go for the Illusionary Mask + Phyrexian Dreadnought plan, grab a God-Pharaoh's Statue, or pick up a Time Vault. Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner + Time Vault wins on the spot. (You can win with Mask + Dreadnought during your seven extra turns.)

    I played an extended set (best of (best of 3, best of 3, best of 5)) between an earlier version of this deck and the RUG Arcanist list above. RUG won 2-0, 2-0. Then I adjusted the All-In Black deck to its current state, and it won 2-1, 0-2, 3-1.

    I overlooked Bolas's Citadel, but that belongs somewhere. I may remove the Time Vault combo in favor of Stupor or Infernal Contract or something, saving a point for a third Sol Ring. Also, there need to be redundant copies of the DreadMask combo in the SB.

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