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Thread: [SCD] Thran Turbine

  1. #1

    [SCD] Thran Turbine

    There is a legacy legal sol ring that sees no play. No not Carpet of Flowers or even Magus of the Vineyard.

    Thran Turbine
    {1}
    Artifact
    At the beginning of your upkeep, you may add {C}{C}. You can’t spend this mana to cast spells.
    When Urza asked the viashino what it did, they answered: “It hums.”

    Previously in legacy there were basically no mana costing abilities that were playable. But several mechanics and powerhouse cards were printed recently that can use the mana:


    Cycling (Shark Typhoon)

    Foretell (Behold the multiverse and starnheim unleashed)

    Cheap Creatures (Elvish Reclaimer and Rishadan Dockhand)

    Cheap artifacts and lands (Retrofitter Foundry and Urza’s saga)

    From the selection of cards available it looks like it could fit in a blue steel stompy shell or a standstill one with minimal sacrifices to card quality. Any thoughts on whether it is powerful enough for legacy?
    Last edited by Reeplcheep; 08-24-2021 at 03:34 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: [SCD] Thran Turbine

    I think the notion that Turbine is "unplayable" is pretty historically entrenched that it would take definite results to show that it might not be. On the short list of things you mention, the "most" synergry I see would be between Reclaimer, Sage and Foundry. Perhaps add Loam or Ramunap Excavator and see how far one can just push Saga?
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  3. #3

    Re: [SCD] Thran Turbine

    That’s definitely option A for the best combo, since saga gets either pieces.

    Option B is hall of heliod plus sharktyphoon. Island turbine lets you make a 1/1 shark draw a card immediately and still have a mana left over. And then your engine is uncounterable bigger and bigger sharks. The instant speed of this one is the attraction, letting you “cash in” immediately. It also makes the best use of multiples.

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    Re: [SCD] Thran Turbine

    A good point, since I don't own any Saga's yet myself, I actually forgot that it was an Enchantment for a moment. But wouldn't Saga also be good there as well, since, one, it finds Turbine and two, it draws the attention of opposing Wastelands, so you Hall is more likely to live.

    One neat thing about Green is that you can also add Green Sun's Zenith which, while it can't be used with Turbine, does get you Reclaimer or Excavator.

    These are two interesting ways to try the concept I think. Not sure which is likely better though.
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  5. #5

  6. #6

    Re: [SCD] Thran Turbine

    The Shark Typhoon idea is not worth it, a control deck is not going to want to spend a whole card just to make shark +2+2 on the condition that you make it in your own upkeep

    Using it to help activate retrofitter / urzas saga / ballista etc is a better idea I think but I'm still not convinced it's actually an improvement

  7. #7

    Re: [SCD] Thran Turbine

    That’s possible. But then why do you think carpet of flowers is so good in control? Heliod plus typhoon is the ultimate lategame engine for blue decks; having it online on t3 rather than t5 could make or break a game.

  8. #8

    Re: [SCD] Thran Turbine

    Other possible synergies are Field of Ruin or something like Grim Monolith that can launder the mana.

    One of the issues with using Thran Turbine is that you have to commit during your own upkeep. I wonder how much better it would be if it gave mana during the opponent's end step instead.

  9. #9
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    Re: [SCD] Thran Turbine

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    The Shark Typhoon idea is not worth it, a control deck is not going to want to spend a whole card just to make shark +2+2 on the condition that you make it in your own upkeep

    Using it to help activate retrofitter / urzas saga / ballista etc is a better idea I think but I'm still not convinced it's actually an improvement
    Well, I think there really isn't a question if any of this is secretly Tier One. I think the real question is, maybe something here could be Tier Two? Saga is a silly card, it wouldn't shock me if it made some Tier 4 strategy into a vaguely competitive one though.

    Perhaps, in a Green version, since we are thinking Reclaimer and Excavator, perhaps we throw in a couple Depths and Stages too?
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  10. #10

    Re: [SCD] Thran Turbine

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Other possible synergies are Field of Ruin or something like Grim Monolith that can launder the mana.

    One of the issues with using Thran Turbine is that you have to commit during your own upkeep. I wonder how much better it would be if it gave mana during the opponent's end step instead.
    Way back when when Urza's block came out, I played an artifact deck with turbines and storage matrix (before it was errata'd) to untap grim monolith and phyrexian colossus or feed flowstone sculpture. It is too restrictive compared to carpet and there isn't much to abuse it, whereas everything has become so efficient that value is already inherent in most legacy playable cards like when they etb or die or you do any regular game action. It would probably need something like constantly churning sagas in a stax shell or something.

  11. #11
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    Re: [SCD] Thran Turbine

    These seem like strong synergies
    Mystic Remora
    Elephant Grass

    Mid synergies
    Isochron Scepter

    Weak synergies
    Scroll Rack
    Grim Monolith
    Basalt Monolith
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  12. #12
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    Re: [SCD] Thran Turbine

    Thran Turbine has potential. I've brewed with it in casual formats, and it might have legs for Legacy play.

    It's very useful for activated abilities.
    Elvish Reclaimer -> Thespian's Stage + Dark Depths

    Urza's Saga -> Retrofitter Foundry

    You can also store unspent mana with cards like Upwelling, Kruphix, God of Horizons.

    Edit: Hmm what about a Landstill deck


    //Lands: 23
    4 Urza's Saga
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Prismatic Vista
    1 Tundra
    4 Island
    3 Plains
    1 Karakas
    1 Hall of Storm Giants
    1 Hall of Heliod's Generosity

    //Artifacts: 6
    3 Thran Turbine
    1 Retrofitter Foundry
    1 Soul-Guide Lantern
    1 Expedition Map

    //Spells: 18
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Prismatic Ending
    1 Sevinne's Reclamation
    1 Force of Negation
    2 Supreme Verdict

    //Enchantments: 8
    2 Myth Realized
    4 Standstill
    2 Shark Typhoon

    //Planeswalkers: 3
    3 Teferi, Time Raveler

    //Creatures: 2
    2 Timeless Dragon


    Many uses for that mana:
    Activate Urza's Saga to make Construct on upkeep, before stage III
    Cycle Timeless Dragon to get plains & shuffle before draw step
    Cycle Shark Typhoon
    Activate Retrofitter Foundry
    Activate Expedition Map to find more Sagas or other utility land
    Activate Hall of Heliod's Generosity on upkeep to reuse Urza's Sagas and Standstills & draw that turn
    Animate Hall of Storm Giants when opponent is tapped down (Ward 3 means you'll know on upkeep whether it is safe to do so)
    Put counters on Myth Realized

    Curving a T1 Turbine or Myth into T2 Standstill should allow you to just play lands and pull ahead in the game.

  13. #13

    Re: [SCD] Thran Turbine

    The card could be useful if it was able to proc Saga decently, but you get the mana in upkeep, meaning that you can't use the mana for the first token of saga, given that you get to chapter2 in your main 1.

    This, for me, sadly kills the card
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  14. #14

    Re: [SCD] Thran Turbine

    Thoughts on jewelled amulet to evade the timing restrictions and use extra mana? It also enables mox opal well and is a decent answer to daze.

    Retrofitter foundry or cycling can be used immediately which is nice.

  15. #15

    Re: [SCD] Thran Turbine

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Thoughts on jewelled amulet to evade the timing restrictions and use extra mana? It also enables mox opal well and is a decent answer to daze.

    Retrofitter foundry or cycling can be used immediately which is nice.
    You can only remove one mana at a time with Amulet and requires you to tap in and tap out.

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    Re: [SCD] Thran Turbine

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctalor View Post
    The card could be useful if it was able to proc Saga decently, but you get the mana in upkeep, meaning that you can't use the mana for the first token of saga, given that you get to chapter2 in your main 1.

    This, for me, sadly kills the card
    It can't proc Saga's 1st construct. But it can make Construct #2, then fuel Retrofitter Foundry every turn (which Saga finds). That's a lot of value.

    T1 Saga. Use mana to cast Turbine
    T2 Miss the construct (play land & 2 drop? cycle dragon on upkeep for land fixing?)
    T3 Use Turbine mana to make X/X Construct. Put Retrofitter Foundry into play.
    T4 Use Turbine mana to make 1/1 Servo.
    T5 Use Turbine mana to make 1/1 Servo.
    T6 Use Turbine mana to make 1/1 Servo

    Note the only 2 cards played here are Saga + Turbine. No other lands or cards are assumed. This engine makes an X/X and then tokens every turn without consuming any mana. The entire rest of your hand and mana are free to do anything else. As long as you have enough other abilities that can also use the 2 mana on upkeep then this seems playable.

    Note that this doesn't involve casting any spells after T1, so that T2 could be casting Standstill. Opponent is forced to act into Standstill or you assemble an army machine. Without Thran Turbine you can't profitably play T1 Saga T2 Standstill (would miss both constructs and then waste all your lands making 1/1s).

  17. #17

    Re: [SCD] Thran Turbine

    Now im suggesting Expedition Map... It really ups consistency. Hex Parasite also plays nice with saga and turbine.

    But is this the "playing bad cards to enable other bad cards" trap?

    I feel like Saga is the only good card in this thread :/
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  18. #18

    Re: [SCD] Thran Turbine

    here is a screen shot where I beat a very aggressive delver start only having cast 1 spell (chrome mox)

    A bunch of sol lands powered my foundries in this case, but turbine would have done that more efficiently. Foundry and saga are absolutely good enough to win games of legacy by themselves, especially when turbine lets you use your mana on other things.

    The question is what is the best supporting cast? The options are standstill/shark typhoon for CA and immediate cycling, or Reclaimer/map for more consistent sagas or ballista/mox opal for speed.

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    Re: [SCD] Thran Turbine

    I remember I tried Thran Turbine when it was released with Spikes, especially Spike Feeder but that didn't really go anywhere back then.

    By now we also have cards cards like Hardened Scales and Winding Constrictor and they're perfect for a Spike deck.

    Included Thran Turbine in my spike deck for the sake of it and will see how it goes.

    https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/1524615-spikes

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    Re: [SCD] Thran Turbine

    There is a lot of variance you need to draw past if you're running do-nothings like Turbine. Even though cycling is consistency-positive, this is pretty reliant on A [Turbine] then B [cycling]. Imagine the problem: you don't have piece A, so you cycle your last piece B in hand -> you draw piece A off the cycle -> dead.

    You need to do a ton of work to avoid the above sequence. I wouldn't even touch Turbine unless I was willing to absorb the variance of 4x Geier Reach Sanitarium, and yes, that's legendary. At least you can go turn 1 Geier, cast Turbine -> Turn 2 begin fixing hand with Geier off Turbine mana. I still don't think this is good enough for competitive play, but it's probably as close as you can get to mitigating such variance.

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