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Thread: Dwarf Bugs

  1. #1
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    Dwarf Bugs

    I saw this decklist on Anu's stream and surprisingly has potential, even if it has some rough edges.

    Decklist

    Essentially, you're doing all kinds of tribal shenanigans with Changeling, Dwarven Recruiter and Pyre. Decklist looks like it's tons of fun.

    Closer inspection of the deck by the deck creator

  2. #2
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    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    A day or two ago, this happened to me after a bunch of creatures were chain-milled. I had no idea what was happening. Ended up winning through it

    https://i.imgur.com/e4Dr8Oi.png

  3. #3
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    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    Needs more Crucible of Fire in the board vs Plague Engineer @ Insect.

    Edit: Depala, Pilot Exemplar may be a more realistic lord to use. Only +1/+1, but it's a Dwarf creature (Vial, Cavern, Recruiter) and it can draw you a bunch of creatures (e.g. tap to Mothdust Changeling).
    Lord of the Unreal is another option. Not a Dwarf, but only 2 mana and also adds Hexproof.

  4. #4
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    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    The deck looks really fun from the stream.

    I would start by tweaking it like this


    //Creatures: 28
    4 Mothdust Changeling
    2 Universal Automaton
    2 Changeling Outcast
    4 Magda, Brazen Outlaw
    3 Unsettled Mariner
    3 Masked Vandal
    4 Dwarven Recruiter
    1 Realmwalker
    4 Valiant Changeling
    1 Platinum Emperion

    //Planeswalkers: 4
    4 Grist, the Hunger Tide

    //Artifacts: 7
    4 Aether Vial
    3 Pyre of Heroes

    //Lands: 21
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Unclaimed Territory
    3 City of Brass
    3 Mana Confluence
    3 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
    2 Ally Encampment
    1 Reflecting Pool
    1 Swarmyard

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Leyline of the Void
    3 Brain Maggot
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Crucible of Fire
    1 Depala, Pilot Exemplar
    1 Fairgrounds Warden
    1 Dwarven Blastminer
    1 Goblin Charbelcher
    1 Utvara Hellkite
    1 Mirror Entity


    +1 Grist
    +1 Recruiter
    -1 Swarmyard
    -1 Feline Sovereign

    +2 Outcast
    -2 Automaton

    +1 Vandal
    -1 Mariner

    +2 City of Brass
    -1 Confluence
    -1 Reflecting Pool


    Reasons
    Often the deck really needs to draw Grist, Recruiter or Magda to beat the opponent's game state. Grist is very strong in general. This is probably the best Grist deck in Legacy (so many ways to abuse it), and Grist is the only removal in the deck, so Grist should be 4-of. Redundant copies are not a problem... opponent will remove them or lose.

    Recruiter is a 1-card combo even without Grist (Realmwalker + Magda pile), can tutor for silver bullet answers, and is the only card in the deck really capable of recovering in topdeck mode, so 4 copies seems good main. Copies can always be shaved postboard. This optimizes combo shenanigans in game 1, when it's most likely to work and the opponent won't know what's going on.

    Feline Sovereign is an easy cut. Easily the worst card in the deck. Masked Vandal is a more reliable disenchant effect when you need to remove something, and there are much better lord effects.

    22 lands seems high. I shaved a land and tweaked the configuration to cut down on Reflecting Pool and Swarmyard because they're the lands most likely to manascrew you. Can't afford do-nothing lands in this format. That one board state with 2 Pool + 2 Swarmyard was just painful. The original deck had 4 Confluence + 1 City of Brass. That seemed wrong to me. Sure City is bad against Port, but Confluence can't tap for mana with Emperion out, so Confluence is no longer strictly better. 3-3 split?

    I swapped 2 Automatons for 2 Outcasts. The creator used Automaton because it can block Ragavan but I think 4 copies is overreacting to the monkey. Monkey already dies to everything in the deck and doesn't even want to cast most of your stuff. Automaton walks harder into disenchants (Force of Vigor, Serenity, Wear//Tear). Outcast can tap for Magda (unblockable) and can't get ambushed by flash blockers.

    I made a lot of changes to the sideboard. I don't think you are winning games by trying to Plague Engineer/Kozilek's Return another weenie deck. Kozilek is hard to cast and sets this deck backwards too, even if the 2nd ability is cute with Valiant Changeling. Better to be the aggressor and try to combo harder than bringing in slow 3-mana reactive answers to their creatures. They'll have better trades overall and their creatures are better, so they should be favored after the board wipe.

    Against combo you do need answers, so I kept Leylines and Canonist. I added Brain Maggot for discard. It's a 2-mana Insect so it's uncounterable with Caverns, can be Vialed in at instant speed, and can be Pyred into Grist. Proactive plays like Maggot and Canonist seem better than passing with 2 mana up for Warping Wail. This deck is often forced to use lands at sorcery speed.

    Fairgrounds Warden seems good vs fatty decks. This replaces Dragonlord Silumgar. Dragonlord might be better, but Warden is much easier to get in play (Pyre @ 2, Recruiter, Vial @ 3, cast with lands).

    Opponents will absolutely board in X/1 hate (Plague Engineer, Blazing Volley, Liliana Last Hope, Jitte, etc). The SB needs an answer. Crucible of Fire's +3/+3 is a clean 1-card proactive solution and alternate wincon, but 4 mana is also a lot. Needs testing. Depala is a Dwarf lord that draws cards. Seems good. Any other 2-mana lord (Lord of the Unreal hexproof, Master of the Pearl Trident vs Islands.format) could be good for curve reasons.

    Utvara Hellkite is a 2nd 8-mana fatty target when you want something aggressive to end the game instead of Emperion's defense. Magda can find it (Dragon). So can Pyre + Valiant Changeling. Mirror Entity is another option.

    Edit: More on why I don't like Plague Engineer here. To get turn 3 Engineer, you need one of the following sequences
    1) Lucksack it in opening hand & hit 3 mana with a reliable black source
    2) T1 Vial, T2 Pyre, T3 Vial in 2-mana changeling & Pyre it into Engineer
    3) T1 Mothdust, T2 Magda + make treasures + play changelings, T3 5 treasures into Pyre into Engineer

    In #2 you dump your hand and first 3 turns just to make Plague Engineer. Sure you might kill some guys, but then you have no board state and no game plan, you wasted a Vandal or Mariner as fodder, and if they remove Engineer they probably recover faster than you.
    #3 you're already winning, you could just get Emperion or anything else.
    In #1 you rely on getting lucky and not getting disrupted (more luck).
    Otherwise it takes longer to get out Engineer. By then, the tribal deck might already win. Slower Engineer might help against slow D&T but they also have a lot of removal for it and mana denial to keep you off 2B.
    These just seem like losing fights to pick.

    A big problem here: Pyre is slow. It takes 4 mana + a creature to do anything. Then you're still down a card, so you better get something unfair. If you get a fair card, opponent trades up and you're playing from behind on both cards and tempo. Pyre starts to pay off after multiple activations. But that's really slow. If you're only activating once, Neoform is much faster. Neoform is very hard to cast in this manabase though... but maybe there is a way to fix the mana.
    Last edited by FTW; 09-15-2021 at 11:37 AM.

  5. #5

    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    I agree with you FTW about almost everything: i want to take this deck at my proxy tournament this sunday (and make some leagues with it before on modo), but yeah pyre seems slow, at the same time it feels necessary with so many cc1 with niche applications: in the anu video seems like we want a chain to have specific piece often. Not saying that Neoform can't be better, but i think it would be so when moving away from this hilarious manabase to something different (if possible).

    Fairgrounds Warden is a nice card, agree. I think this deck needs a b plan and Crucible works in evading engineer pretty well for sure, but yeah cc4 seems a lot/not reliable. In a version with Springleaf Drum it would be better for sure.

    Another thing to consider is a Coat of Arms md as a secondary, cheaper artifact with huge impact if we draw Emperor. Is way easier to cast and the bonus can easily get out of control. I think i'm gonna play one bw it and Mirror Entity md in the league.

    Another idea could be playing mox opal to accelerate things up, with glimmervoid and Spire of Innovation as rainbow lands but maybe it's asking for more problems post side.

    About the sideboard, i think that something like Kozilek's Return is still needed: i agree that Engineer seems slow/not enough impactful at that point, but we are a combo deck more than an aggro one against those decks that we want return for, and casting it from the grave is usually gg (niche application, but faesible with so many tutors i think). I like the brain maggot idea and the proactive approach, even if some of the cool things you said (uncounterable, insect for grist) don't really applies in the mu where we want it probably (combo). I mean, are we podding away it for grist in what mu, Miracle? Are we boarding them in against delver or other fair mu? don't think so

  6. #6
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    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Memories of the Time View Post
    i want to take this deck at my proxy tournament this sunday (and make some leagues with it before on modo)
    Good luck! Looking forward to hearing results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Memories of the Time View Post
    Another thing to consider is a Coat of Arms md as a secondary, cheaper artifact with huge impact if we draw Emperor. Is way easier to cast and the bonus can easily get out of control. I think i'm gonna play one bw it and Mirror Entity md in the league.
    If you draw Platinum Emperion you can cast it with the 5 treasures. 5 treasures = +5 mana.

    Coat of Arms is a great idea. Maybe better SB because it's symmetrical. You do not want it if they have more creatures than you (your changelings buff their team). Also too many Magda targets lead to dead draws. Coat of Arms is a good answer for Plague Engineer (net -0/-0 to your changelings). Probably better than Crucible because you can get it with Magda and it doesn't need colored mana.


    Quote Originally Posted by Memories of the Time View Post
    Another idea could be playing mox opal to accelerate things up, with glimmervoid and Spire of Innovation as rainbow lands but maybe it's asking for more problems post side.
    I think there aren't enough artifacts to support that reliably. The meta is also full of artifact hate. Not worth it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Memories of the Time View Post
    but yeah pyre seems slow, at the same time it feels necessary with so many cc1 with niche applications: in the anu video seems like we want a chain to have specific piece often. Not saying that Neoform can't be better, but i think it would be so when moving away from this hilarious manabase to something different (if possible).
    Yeah, I kept Pyre above because it still fits better than other options.

    In Anu's video, there were also many cases where Pyre was too slow or when he only needed to activate it once. He considered swapping some for Birthing Pods, but Pod is a turn 3 card so it's still slow. Pyre/Pod is only better if you activate multiple times. If you only activate once, Neoform is less mana for a better effect (+1/+1 counter & any creature type). But UG is hard... Eldritch Evolution does +2 but GG is still hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Memories of the Time View Post
    I like the brain maggot idea and the proactive approach, even if some of the cool things you said (uncounterable, insect for grist) don't really applies in the mu where we want it probably (combo). I mean, are we podding away it for grist in what mu, Miracle? Are we boarding them in against delver or other fair mu? don't think so
    Uncounterable helps vs Doomsday. They have too much disruption for a few counterable SB cards to matter.
    Also OmniTell, SneakShow... any combo deck with counters.

    Insect for Grist could matter on the killing turn. Pyre it into Grist (giving them card back), play Recruiter same turn, +1 Grist.
    You risk them winning with the returned card, but if you don't go for a fast enough kill they may just draw into another win anyway. This is a lot safer if you have Emperion out and just need to win before they remove it.
    Maybe this is still too slow vs combo and only good against control.


    Quote Originally Posted by Memories of the Time View Post
    About the sideboard, i think that something like Kozilek's Return is still needed: i agree that Engineer seems slow/not enough impactful at that point, but we are a combo deck more than an aggro one against those decks that we want return for, and casting it from the grave is usually gg (niche application, but faesible with so many tutors i think).
    Yeah, maybe keep some Returns and see if it works.

    I'm just thinking of the Elves match Anu played. He drew the 2-of SB card and cast it and wiped their board and his own, but they recovered faster and won. It didn't help him actually win vs Elves. This deck topdecks bad changelings, card disadvantage and conditional lands while most creature decks have better draws. Opponent should recover from the wipe better. Even if he was able to recur that Valiant Changeling to trigger Kozilek, he clears the board to stay alive longer but isn't much closer to winning himself. To cast that Valiant, you need another changeling too (to reduce cost). That's using 2 cards to trigger Kozilek. Then you're still far from assembling winning combos. Kozilek's Return hurts the opponent, but does it help this deck progress towards a winning state? Needs more testing.

    Against D&T, Maverick or Goblins they can Waste you off Red mana. Thalia makes it cost 4.

    Doesn't combo usually play the "aggressor" role vs creature piles? Boarding into 3-mana board wipes is taking a control role.

  7. #7
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    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    Master of the Pearl Trident might be really cool due to Islandwalk. Same goes for Coat of Arms.

    What irks me about Brain Maggot is that one the hand, Automaton is bad due to artifact hate, yet on the other hand, an enchantment creature gets a pass, although most of the common hate hits it, too?

    I do think the deck needs some of mana acceleration since it's so slow. Mana dorks like Birds or Hierarchs are going to have a bad time with the current mana base (Hierarchs also can't cover all colors necessary). And the relatively low land count prevents Mox Diamond from being consistent (artifact hate aside).

    Manaweft Sliver (aka the better Gemhide Sliver) could turn all your Changelings into mana dorks, which would also give you another way for Magda to produce treasure tokens with Changelings. Not sure if that would be a fix since it's still kinda slow, but it opens up all kinds of fancy shenanigans, SB included (e.g. Harmonic Sliver vs enchantment/artifact heavy decks - would nuke your Vials/Pyres with no opposing targets, though). In case a Sliver package has any merit, Sliver Hive should be run over other creature-type specific rainbow lands.

    Other interesting Sliver candidates would be (either MD or SB):
    Cloudshredder Sliver
    Necrotic Sliver
    Crystalline Sliver (in combination with Mirror Entity)

    Another thing worth considering would be a Urza's Saga package - aside from Vial and Automaton, Retrofitter Foundry would be a great target since it can turn any Changeling instantly into a 4/4. Spamming Constructs while Magda produces treasure tokens sounds pretty juicy, too. It's only 5 cards total package, with 4 being lands. Trim some garbage lands like Swarmyard and Pool and it shouldn't be to hard to get there. Sagas should be able to carry games by themselves and could be a rock-solid plan B. I'm not really sold on Mariner, so it could be

    +4 Saga
    +1 Retrofitter Foundry

    -3 Mariner
    -1 Pool
    -1 Swarmyard

    And probably 4x Automaton instead a mix of Automaton and Outcast due to better synergy with Saga/Constructs. An example turn sequence looks like this:

    T1: Saga, Automaton
    T2: Land, Magda, swing with Automaton, get treasure
    T3: Make Construct (with land + treasure), grab Retrofitter Foundry, swing with Automaton, get treasure, then sac Automaton at some point to make a 4/4.

    At this point, you have Madga, a treasure, a 4/4 Construct, Foundry and the Saga Construct (currently 4/4).

  8. #8
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    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    What irks me about Brain Maggot is that one the hand, Automaton is bad due to artifact hate, yet on the other hand, an enchantment creature gets a pass, although most of the common hate hits it, too?
    Good point. Maybe Maggot isn't good enough.

    Universal Automaton is bad due to being a bad card. Does Merfolk want Merfolk of the Pearl Trident? Walking into artifact hate is just another downside. The deck creator started with Outcasts and only switched to Automatons to chump Ragavan. Outcast is better in most scenarios like making treasures with Magda (2/1 unblockable), ticking down planeswalkers, stealing the Monarch, and sneaking through damage in stalled board states with Platinum Emperion.

    GY combo decks may board in multi-disenchants (Force of Vigor, Wear // Tear, Serenity) to beat Leyline. They will trade those with Leyline either way. If you play T1 artifact creature, it gives them a free 2nd target.

    Maggot was for other combo matches like Doomsday, OmniTell and TES. These are abysmal matchups. They're also designed to combo through 1 counterspell, so SB Warping Wail doesn't do much. But Maggot off Cavern/Vial can actually sneak around their protection to exile a combo piece, potentially doing something. They're unlikely to board in mass-disenchants against Changeling tribal.


    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    I do think the deck needs some of mana acceleration since it's so slow. Mana dorks like Birds or Hierarchs are going to have a bad time with the current mana base (Hierarchs also can't cover all colors necessary). And the relatively low land count prevents Mox Diamond from being consistent (artifact hate aside). Manaweft Sliver (aka the better Gemhide Sliver) could turn all your Changelings into mana dorks
    I agree accel is needed. Tough to find a good card though. Birds/Hierarch are unreliable to cast on T1. Chrome Mox is bad in 5c.
    Is T2 mana dork too slow? Needs testing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    In case a Sliver package has any merit, Sliver Hive should be run over other creature-type specific rainbow lands.
    Harmonic Sliver could be strong, but it's a liability with no "may" clause. Masked Vandal seems better and fits a better spot on the curve (clogged at 3cmc with combo pieces).

    Crystalline Sliver would be useful, but Lord of the Unreal is even better at the same cost (hexproof over shroud & +1/+1!).


    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    I'm not really sold on Mariner, so it could be
    -3 Mariner
    Mariner is needed for curve reasons. The deck needs 2 cmc changelings to Pyre into Grist & Recruiter and a critical mass of changelings to do the combo. Mariner isn't amazing but it's better than every 2cmc changeling other than Masked Vandal. Cutting it for non-2cmc changeling weakens the core engines (cut Pyre instead?).

  9. #9

    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    First league ended 3-2, won against d&t,UB Urza and UW standstill, lost against show and U stompy with the following list:

    I've played a split bw outcast and automation and the first has ben way better, as expected. Outcast is a clock with Magda and has been really good for the beatdown plan.

    Urza's Package has been good (obvs) but the deck is mana hungry and without vial it's often harsh to make constructs. Needs more tests, as for all the deck. More lands has been good anyway, flooded once but i've ended up winning anyway (this deck is really strong against control). I've mulled a lot due to color screw for the ally/dragon lands, probably need a cut here.

    Grist+Recruiter has been my gg most of the games, Vandal has overperformed, Mirror Entity has been a nice alternative wincon, Valiant has been meh and it will cut i think. a 3/3 double strike isn't enough almost always and the line to pyre away it for Emperor is really niche: Probably i will up the mariner again but don't know, it hasn't been really important in these match up. Pyre has been good but sometimes slow, but it's needed yeah.
    The "cannon" with realmswalker hasn't been really faesible, but the grind/Ca factor is probably worth: i probably want Depala md as another Lord effect anyway

    A question: why emperor is better than platinum angel? i think they die from the same things while the angel protects us from more things (mainly, DDAY and painter) while being an evasive beater (i mean, cutting away the valiant and then the pod reason).

    This is what at i'm at rn, but i think that the sb needs more impactful cards against U stompy/urza decks (what?)

    Beside that, yeah the deck with a reliable acceleration would be really good. I still think that there aren't so much mass artifact hate to not trying an artifact version, probably with Springleaf drum instead of vial with mopal, rainbow artifact lands etc. It will also cut the life loss of city/confluence that against taxes has been a problem, but the deck should be reconstructed differently.

  10. #10

    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Memories of the Time View Post
    A question: why emperor is better than platinum angel? i think they die from the same things while the angel protects us from more things (mainly, DDAY and painter) while being an evasive beater (i mean, cutting away the valiant and then the pod reason).

    Beside that, yeah the deck with a reliable acceleration would be really good. I still think that there aren't so much mass artifact hate to not trying an artifact version, probably with Springleaf drum instead of vial with mopal, rainbow artifact lands etc. It will also cut the life loss of city/confluence that against taxes has been a problem, but the deck should be reconstructed differently.
    My guess is the higher toughness to beat unholy heat/double bolt out of delver. But angel does seem much better vs combo.

    Another option is chrome mox for acceleration. Duergar assailant over outcast gives you extra interaction, Imprints nicely and works with the primary combo. If you have cut the double striker it works with basically everything except grist. If TES can make chrome mox work with more artifacts and 5c you should be fine. Trim to 1 realmwalker 1 masked vandal and the deck is basically jesksai for mox purposes.

    Edit: chrome mox over vial also means you have only 4 non creatures that cost mana. This makes ancient ziggurat much more playable, which is way better than some of your 5c lands.

  11. #11

    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    Chrome mox would also let us play thalia in the sb, and that could be huge

  12. #12
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    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    Thanks for the results! Useful to know.

    Edit: Platinum Emperion has some corner cases like dodging burn/Dismember and stopping Uro from attacking as profitably. Angel is better vs combos and to fly over ground blockers.
    I think Emperion was chosen for 8 cmc (Pyre + Valiant). On the Reddit thread, the deck creator is big on having cards you can get with both Pyre and Magda. If you cut Valiants, there's no reason to limit yourself to only 8 cmc targets.

    The Ally land is probably the worst one if you need to clean up the manabase.

    How were the SB cards? Was Sporeweaver actually good? Did Brain Maggot or Plague Engineer do enough in those matches?

    What do you use Pyre for if not Emperion? To get Grist and Recruiter? If so then yeah, you need enough 2 cmc changelings.

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    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Memories of the Time View Post
    Chrome mox would also let us play thalia in the sb, and that could be huge
    Am I missing something? Isn't Chrome Mox really bad in a 5 color deck? It will tap for the wrong color.

  14. #14

    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Am I missing something? Isn't Chrome Mox really bad in a 5 color deck? It will tap for the wrong color.
    TES is playing 3 and they have even less overlap in colours and more artifacts. Assuming -4 outcast -1 vandal for +1 mariner +4 assailant you have 9 cards that will cast 2/3s of your deck when imprinted. 4 ziggurat and 9 white cards increases your ability to cast Thalia (on t1 even) without needing to name soldier on your good lands. You even indirectly improve your ability to cast grist since you can replace spirit haven/ally encampment with ziggurat.

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    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    If you're cutting Valiant Changeling, can you simplify the manabase by cutting down on colors?


    //Creatures: 26
    4 Mothdust Changeling
    4 Universal Automaton
    4 Magda, Brazen Outlaw
    4 Masked Vandal
    1 Shapesharer
    1 Lord of the Unreal
    4 Dwarven Recruiter
    1 Realmwalker
    1 Mirror Entity
    1 Chameleon Colossus
    1 Platinum Angel

    //Artifacts: 8
    4 Aether Vial
    3 Pyre of Heroes
    1 Retrofitter Foundry

    //Planeswalkers: 3
    3 Grist, the Hunger Tide


    That reduces the deck to URg in the early turns, with slight splash for W and B cards (Grist, Mirror Entity) that you can get through Pyre, Vial or Treasures.

    You could run something like RUG lands + 4 Caverns. That would allow you to play nontribal SB cards more easily. And maybe even play some Neoform over Pyre, to reduce the need for mana ramp.


    //Lands: 23
    3 Urza's Saga
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Wooded Foothills
    3 Volcanic Island
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Taiga
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Badlands
    Last edited by FTW; 09-17-2021 at 02:33 AM.

  16. #16
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    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Crystalline Sliver would be useful, but Lord of the Unreal is even better at the same cost (hexproof over shroud & +1/+1!).
    Shroud and hexproof are identical for all intents and purposes as long as you don't run stuff that targets your own creatures. It boils down to a Lord effect vs the Sliver being untouchable to spot removal while Lord of the Unreal is a weak spot in your defenses as long as you don't have a Mirror Entity online.

    Speaking of targeting, another Dwarf that could enable Magda would be Dwarven Bloodboiler. Although RRR is probably too harsh on the mana of the 5C build. However, between Mothdust Changeling and Changeling Outcast, the pump might be a real threat - and it works right out of the box, potentially stealing wins out of nowhere.

    A RUG manabase could make the use of BoP more feasible as an accelerant.

    As for Ziggurat, keep in mind that it can't be used to cast or activate Pyre (Vial is less of an issue here due to its low cost).

  17. #17

    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    First off, this is probably the most interesting deck in Legacy in years.
    It looks deliciously stupid and I'm really keen to see where it goes.
    The 5 color version is also a nice budget deck which legacy really needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    If you're cutting Valiant Changeling, can you simplify the manabase by cutting down on colors?


    //Creatures: 26
    4 Mothdust Changeling
    2 Universal Automaton
    2 Duergar Assailant
    4 Magda, Brazen Outlaw
    4 Masked Vandal
    1 Shapesharer
    1 Lord of the Unreal
    4 Dwarven Recruiter
    1 Realmwalker
    1 Mirror Entity
    1 Chameleon Colossus
    1 Platinum Angel

    //Artifacts: 8
    4 Aether Vial
    3 Pyre of Heroes
    1 Retrofitter Foundry

    //Planeswalkers: 3
    3 Grist, the Hunger Tide


    That reduces the deck to URg in the early turns, with slight splash for W and B cards (Grist, Mirror Entity) that you can get through Pyre, Vial or Treasures.

    You could run something like RUG lands + 4 Caverns. That would allow you to play nontribal SB cards more easily. And maybe even play some Neoform over Pyre, to reduce the need for mana ramp.


    //Lands: 23
    3 Urza's Saga
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Wooded Foothills
    3 Volcanic Island
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Taiga
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Badlands
    Am I missing something here?
    What does the Angel do here besides being a random 1-off?
    You don't have anything 6cmc to Pyre it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Shroud and hexproof are identical for all intents and purposes as long as you don't run stuff that targets your own creatures. It boils down to a Lord effect vs the Sliver being untouchable to spot removal while Lord of the Unreal is a weak spot in your defenses as long as you don't have a Mirror Entity online.

    Speaking of targeting, another Dwarf that could enable Magda would be Dwarven Bloodboiler. Although RRR is probably too harsh on the mana of the 5C build. However, between Mothdust Changeling and Changeling Outcast, the pump might be a real threat - and it works right out of the box, potentially stealing wins out of nowhere.

    A RUG manabase could make the use of BoP more feasible as an accelerant.

    As for Ziggurat, keep in mind that it can't be used to cast or activate Pyre (Vial is less of an issue here due to its low cost).
    Opposition or Glare of Subdual? Expensive but could be a silver bullet against most giant things in the format.

    Kyren Negotiations could also be a hilarious win con.

    In terms of Pyre-able things Field Surgeon seems the best from a quick search.

  18. #18
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    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoid View Post
    Opposition or Glare of Subdual? Expensive but could be a silver bullet against most giant things in the format.

    Kyren Negotiations could also be a hilarious win con.

    In terms of Pyre-able things Field Surgeon seems the best from a quick search.
    Aphetto Grifter would probably the closest thing to a Opposition-like effect that could also be Pyre'd. Shacklegeist is cheaper, but also more limited.

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    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoid View Post
    Am I missing something here?
    What does the Angel do here besides being a random 1-off?
    You don't have anything 6cmc to Pyre it.
    You can get Angel with Magda, Brazen Outlaw. Magda's the more common way to get Platinum Emperion in the 5c deck too.
    The deck Memories posted has the same thing. I built off that idea, since he was running Angel and cutting Valiant Changeling anyway.

    The 4-mana tap outlets are too slow and hard to cast with the 5c manabase. The deck needs to start going earlier to have any shot of playing at Legacy speed. Shacklegeist could be strong. It can't Port them like the Wizard, but it comes online earlier and helps the beatdown plan better. It can lock down a turn 2 Marit Lage or Griselbrand.

    Edit: Ancient Ziggurat also can't be used with Urza's Saga or Retrofitter Foundry. I think you don't want Saga + Ziggurat in the same build, otherwise your mana can backfire too easily.

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    Re: Dwarf Bugs

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    You can get Angel with Magda, Brazen Outlaw. Magda's the more common way to get Platinum Emperion in the 5c deck too.
    The deck Memories posted has the same thing. I built off that idea, since he was running Angel and cutting Valiant Changeling anyway.

    The 4-mana tap outlets are too slow and hard to cast with the 5c manabase. The deck needs to start going earlier to have any shot of playing at Legacy speed. Shacklegeist could be strong. It can't Port them like the Wizard, but it comes online earlier and helps the beatdown plan better. It can lock down a turn 2 Marit Lage or Griselbrand.

    Edit: Ancient Ziggurat also can't be used with Urza's Saga or Retrofitter Foundry. I think you don't want Saga + Ziggurat in the same build, otherwise your mana can backfire too easily.
    Ah, I see, thanks for clarification.
    These kids with them new cards these days.
    I looked at Shacklegeist but that flops hard if your opponent doesn't have dudes.
    I think you'd want something that doesn't need conditional targets.

    What is currently meta relevant that Angels protects you against that Emperion doesn't?
    Is that really worth the risk of being more vulnerable?

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