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Thread: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

  1. #21
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    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Hulk is a great A+B card if you can cheat the death trigger somehow and vet/cull is an interesting storm engine. I think they don’t mix well at all. Ooze and necromancy or cull and entomb don’t work well together.
    Agreed. I suggest diverging as one of 2 different decks: 1) Hulk or 2) Culling Explorer storm. My suggestions for the two weren't meant for the same deck at once.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Yes the assumption is that all the hulk stuff would be replaced by SI stuff since it works so well with ooze and cull. The assumption is the vet engine will give you enough permanent mana to pay off your pact. That’s something unique about the vet/cull engine that gives you a reason to play it over more traditional rituals+black tutors.
    The drawback here is once you start cutting Belcher and Infernal Contracts for Veteran Explorers and basics, the probability of draw 4 fizzles goes way up (more air to draw into). SI is a finely-tuned machine with small margins for changes and high chance of fizzle if you change the ratios much. So then you either cut Explorer and become SI, or Pact -> Blex starts to look bad.

  2. #22

    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    The drawback here is once you start cutting Belcher and Infernal Contracts for Veteran Explorers and basics, the probability of draw 4 fizzles goes way up (more air to draw into). SI is a finely-tuned machine with small margins for changes and high chance of fizzle if you change the ratios much. So then you either cut Explorer and become SI, or Pact -> Blex starts to look bad.
    the thought is that if you have +3-6 cards in hand and 4-6 basics in play on t2, it is ok to “fizzle” and have to pay your upkeep. That might be incorrect though.

  3. #23
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    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    the thought is that if you have +3-6 cards in hand and 4-6 basics in play on t2, it is ok to “fizzle” and have to pay your upkeep. That might be incorrect though.
    You can pay for Pact, yes. But you had a turn when you could safely play spells (opponent didn't have disruption or you removed it), you built high storm count, and then you spend a tutor just to pass with some cards... and then pass again (tap out for 2GG on upkeep). Opponent gets 2 free turns to disrupt or kill you after you paid 3 life per card. Is that a good use of tempo, storm count and tutors when already mid-going off?

    Compared to Galvanic Relay, that seems really underwhelming. Many life paid. 2GG upkeep forced to prevent game loss.

  4. #24

    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    You can pay for Pact, yes. But you had a turn when you could safely play spells (opponent didn't have disruption or you removed it), you built high storm count, and then you spend a tutor just to pass with some cards... and then pass again (tap out for 2GG on upkeep). Opponent gets 2 free turns to disrupt or kill you after you paid 3 life per card. Is that a good use of tempo, storm count and tutors when already mid-going off?

    Compared to Galvanic Relay, that seems really underwhelming. Many life paid. 2GG upkeep forced to prevent game loss.
    When you only need 5 mana instead of 7, are you really more likely to fizzle? you could be much gas dense if you needed to.

  5. #25
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    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    When you only need 5 mana instead of 7, are you really more likely to fizzle? you could be much gas dense if you needed to.
    I think we have to differentiate what "fizzling" means. I understand the term as one of two scenarios: You have to stop mid-combo due to a) not being able to count properly (human failure) or b) not drawing/looting/milling/... the right cards (chance).
    It is a different thing than "going-off", which means to initiate the combo, and also from being disrupted by the opponent.

    The 7-mana Hulk line has a higher requirement to "go off", but an actual 0% chance to fizzle.
    The 5-mana draw cards line has a lower requirement to "go off", but a chance to fizzle that is >0%.

    This is without any evaluation of the lines, I just wanted to make sure we are talking about the same things.

  6. #26

    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    Yes we are in agreement. I was more comparing ooze to charbeltcher, but the same concept applies to hulk vs cruel bargain.

    A chance of fizzling but low initial cost/specific cards in hand requirement to go off is what makes a storm deck different from A+B.

  7. #27
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    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    When you only need 5 mana instead of 7, are you really more likely to fizzle? you could be much gas dense if you needed to.
    If 5 mana is Draw3-5 and 7 mana is Draw25, then yes.
    If 5 mana is Ad Nauseam, then no (but that requires different deck construction and caring about life total).

    Like eatbasics said, it depends on the definition of "fizzle". I meant b). You cast your business spell, but then it fails to give you more tools to keep going, so you have to end the turn. Peer has a very very low chance to fizzle this way. If you can resolve Peer, you win the game. However you do need to make sure to avoid a) (pilot math error). If you watch experienced storm pilots, Peer doesn't fail; the deck just needs a Plan B in case you can't get up to Peer mana. Ooze is great for that!

    Draw5 has a high chance to fail in most storm decks. TES, ANT and Belcher don't want that card: too high probability to draw air.

    SI is unique. Their deck is specifically designed around a Draw4 engine. The card ratios are intentional, so that Draw4s have a high chance to give you both mana and gas to keep going. Pest is strong there as a tutorable 9th Draw4. But once you start adding Veteran Explorers and basics and cut Belcher and Cruel Bargain, you dilute the gas and the fizzle rate of each Draw4/Draw5 goes up. To be more gas dense, you need to just be SI:
    -all Veteran Explorer
    -all basics
    -all slow cards
    -Hulk combo
    -any alternate combos/engines
    +SI cards

    For decks that are not SI, there's no reason to shoehorn yourself into a Draw5. Pest is forcing a worse storm engine just because you want to rely on Summoner's Pact.

    Edit: Oh you meant the cost of the wincon, not the engine. The fizzle risk isn't from drawing insufficient mana to cast the wincon, but more from just not drawing any business spells or tutors or initial mana sources in the top 5. To reduce that risk, you need to cut the "air" out of the deck and basically become SI.

  8. #28
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    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    I currently tend towards drafting a Peer style deck with "Culling the Explorer" and other elements of the Jelly, Eggs and Bacon list, as it seems to be one of the most promising "alternative" directiosn the deck could go.

    However, I am still thinking about the actual Jelly, Eggs and Bacon list and recently introduced some minor changed:
    Maindeck: - 1 Elvish Spirit Guide, + 1 Dark Ritual, Sideboard: - 1 Endurance, + 1 Foundation Breaker, Maybeboard: + Worldly Tutor

  9. #29
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    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    Sneak Attack + Protean Hulk? Could be good if you want to play Summoner's Pact --> Protean Hulk.

    In a PSI shell with Aeve, I think of Greater Good and Life's Legacy. These lines seem like too much mana and too many parts.

    Plumb the Forbidden is another newer potential engine tho I think it already looks better in red with Empty the Warrens, maybe in a SI-TES shell.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    Thanks everyone for the input and the (many) alternative concepts of how a hulk combo deck could look like.
    However, I would like to focus more on the actual list/concept I have posted and discuss, evaluate, and tune it.
    The deck appears to be playable (at least above trash tier) and has definite potential.

    I recently introduced some changed, mainly to the sideboard, and will soon add a complete sideboard guide to the primer.

  11. #31
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    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    Sticking with the OP list and strategy (green tutor into hardcast Hulk, backup plan Ooze), I'd cut the 2 Abundant Harvest and some of the Traverse for a couple copies of Infernal Tutor and Once Upon A Time. Worldly Tutor is also an option if you don't like Infernal. If you struggle to find lands, maybe Land Grant over OUAT (and then put 1 Bayou in the manabase).

  12. #32

    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    If pact for ooze is the back-up plan, how are we not dying to pact? Or will you just never go for that line on T1? The chances of you having 2 lands + vet + sac or 2 vet + 2 sac on T2 seems very low.

  13. #33
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    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    If pact for ooze is the back-up plan, how are we not dying to pact?
    I've been urging to cut Pact from Page 1, but I think the green tutors + Ooze + Hulk count as the "actual list/concept" so they cannot be changed. I guess the plan is to pay 2GG? Explorer ramp or LED mana?

    Edit: If the plan is T3-T4 Ooze, attack next turn, that's what I would normally count as a "fizzle" in goldfish testing combo decks with Empty the Warrens (green ooze). The deck should be designed so Ooze is playable on T1 or T2, with slower Ooze as a plan C.

    Edit2: Angel's Grace would counter the Pact trigger. It also enables Ad Nauseam as an engine. That might deviate too far from OP's concept though.

  14. #34
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    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Sticking with the OP list and strategy (green tutor into hardcast Hulk, backup plan Ooze), I'd cut the 2 Abundant Harvest and some of the Traverse for a couple copies of Infernal Tutor and Once Upon A Time. Worldly Tutor is also an option if you don't like Infernal. If you struggle to find lands, maybe Land Grant over OUAT (and then put 1 Bayou in the manabase).
    Infernal Tutor is really not that good in the deck, it is 2 mana and you have to get hellbent, which is not easy in the deck that needs 7+ mana for the reward (i.e. play out excessive discard, creatures, etc.), and thus is only really good with LED.
    On the other hand, Worldly Tutor does not play well with LED and lacks speed and flexibility (not getting lands as second mode).

    Once Upon A Time seems also to be contra productive since we do not want Hulk in the hand most of time to make LED mana live, and drawing OUAT in multiples is miserable.
    This is also true for Land Grant, which also lacks flexibility (only getting forests). If the argument for both is that they find lands and OUAT also finds creatures, than Traverse the Ulvenwald does that in a more flexible way in one card.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    If pact for ooze is the back-up plan, how are we not dying to pact? Or will you just never go for that line on T1? The chances of you having 2 lands + vet + sac or 2 vet + 2 sac on T2 seems very low.
    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I've been urging to cut Pact from Page 1, but I think the green tutors + Ooze + Hulk count as the "actual list/concept" so they cannot be changed. I guess the plan is to pay 2GG? Explorer ramp or LED mana?

    Edit: If the plan is T3-T4 Ooze, attack next turn, that's what I would normally count as a "fizzle" in goldfish testing combo decks with Empty the Warrens (green ooze). The deck should be designed so Ooze is playable on T1 or T2, with slower Ooze as a plan C.

    Edit2: Angel's Grace would counter the Pact trigger. It also enables Ad Nauseam as an engine. That might deviate too far from OP's concept though.
    I think both of you are under the same assumption that this combo deck has to be very fast. It does not have to be fast and is not designed in such a way, which does not mean that it cannot be fast.
    With Cabal Therapy that can beneficially be flashbacked as well as Thoughtseize even a slow Aeve, Progenitor Ooze can win, and of course the Hulk wins on the spot even on 1 life T25.
    What I learned from recent ANT developments is that you cannot compare Aeve, Progenitor Ooze and Empty the Warrens, which was confirmed for me during testing. While Empty is fast win option, Aeve is a win option against decks that cannot handle massive Oozes even on later turns.
    Therefore, a T3-T4 Aeve in this deck does not mean we fizzled, of course depending on the match up, because we do not need to jam it T1. However, even against fast combo, if we use discard to slow the opponent down, like NicFit does for example, a late Aeve is still a viable win option.

    And to answer to Reeplcheep, going T1 Aeve with Pact is unlikely, but possible. It is however only possible with at least 2 LEDs and is risky.
    T2 Aeve with Pact is a lot more likely but as you pointed out correctly involves Explorer so we can pay for Pact the next turn.
    When the Aeve turn involves casting Cabal Therapies and flashing them back, it is really hard to disrupt it and even more so to answer the tokens on board, even if they come to the party later then T2.
    Also, once the game unfolds, a Hulk kill gets more likely and then you do not have to worry to "fizzle" with Aeve even when you are too far behind on the board to make it with the Ooze.

    I am so sorry that I always dismiss all of your input, but I thought about most of these cards and interactions extensively and for me, they did not fit the strategy of the deck as good as the card I actually put into the list.
    Therefore it would take a lot of good arguments to convince me otherwise. I want to encourage everyone to keep trying nonetheless, if they truly think that there are better options
    I considered every input you gave and incorporate it into my brainstorming, testing, and theory crafting, and it helped a lot so far!

  15. #35
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    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    Quote Originally Posted by eatbasics View Post
    Infernal Tutor is really not that good in the deck, it is 2 mana and you have to get hellbent, which is not easy in the deck that needs 7+ mana for the reward (i.e. play out excessive discard, creatures, etc.), and thus is only really good with LED.
    On the other hand, Worldly Tutor does not play well with LED and lacks speed and flexibility (not getting lands as second mode).
    Abundant Harvest is not good either. It can find mana, but a random nonland card is MUCH worse than tutoring.

    I agree both IT and Wordly Tutor have downsides. You have to weigh that against Abundant Harvest giving you a random card (if you're using it for land, Land Grant gives more selection). Harvest is the main cut I suggested.

    Traverse the Ulvenwald isn't perfect either. Much of the time it's worse than Ash Barrens (G: put basic in hand, counterable). If you can't get Delirium before turn 3, that lacks speed too. The question is if 4x Traverse is optimal or if it's better to have 2-3 Traverse and some number of other tutors. I think it's worth testing a mix of tutors to see. Living Wish is also an option (like IT but doesn't need Hellbent). Profane Tutor is slow but costs 0 on the combo turn.


    Quote Originally Posted by eatbasics View Post
    This is also true for Land Grant, which also lacks flexibility (only getting forests). If the argument for both is that they find lands and OUAT also finds creatures, than Traverse the Ulvenwald does that in a more flexible way in one card.
    Land Grant gets Forest or Bayou (aka Swamp). Multiple Land Grant are fine if you're not going off on turn 1. Going off turn 2, you can cast 2-3 free Land Grants.

    The argument is that they cost 0 mana instead of 1. If you're regularly spending tutors to get lands, that means your deck lacks reliable early mana. Abundant Harvest and Traverse get you from 1 to 2, but what if you don't have that first green mana (i.e. you have Swamp or they destroy your only green source)? Land Grant and OUAT can get you from 0 to 1 OR 1 to 2. That's more flexible at beating manascrew and reducing mulligans. Land Grant works as an "initial mana source", Abundant Harvest and Traverse do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by eatbasics View Post
    I think both of you are under the same assumption that this combo deck has to be very fast.
    Successful slow combo decks have both disruption and Xerox cantrips (Doomsday, ANT, SneakShow, OmniTell, SpiralTide, OracleShift, Food Chain). Other combo has to be fast, otherwise it struggles to maintain threats and card quality as the game drags on. When your topdecks are Culling the Weak and Summoner's Pact, you're committing to a fast combo kill.

    ANT has 4 Brainstorm 4 Ponder 0 Pact, it's not comparable. They have the tools to adapt to a slow game. Combo decks with Pacts and Spirit Guides (AllSpells, SI, Belcher, old HulkFlash) aren't trying to win slow, they want to go off on turn 1-2. If you're comparing to NicFit, they can play a slow game but they also pack more disruption.

    A single Cabal Therapy or Thoughtseize isn't enough to negate all enemy disruption and play as slow as you want. You can remove the first 1-2 pieces of disruption and then try to go off, but if you don't go off quickly they have time to find more interaction. It buys a small opening, but not forever. When the opponent has blue cantrips and you don't, they find new answers faster than you find more discard.

    Sure ANT can win with T25 Ooze, but that's a corner-case backup plan, not a main plan. The main plan is fast. Ideally this should be built so Plan B is a fast Ooze, with slow Ooze as plan C. If you can only do slow Ooze then that limits options. For fast Ooze, the concern is being able to pay for Summoner's Pact reliably, so you want to make sure the deck can do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by eatbasics View Post
    Therefore, a T3-T4 Aeve in this deck does not mean we fizzled, of course depending on the match up, because we do not need to jam it T1.
    Yeah, the bigger bodies are more resilient than 14 1/1s. It's not a guaranteed fizzle. However if you can't attack until T4-T5, that increases the chance the opponent races or sculpts enough disruption to stop you. Aggro can win before T4-T5. MadVine, Goblins, Burn, UR Delver, Eldrazi Aggro, Fireflux Stompy... Once you're that slow, you don't just have to worry about faster combo. This would be more evident if you tested games.

    That's why I count slower goldfishes as "fizzles" when testing new combo decks. You can win games later, but you have to contend with much more interaction from the opponent, so it's not as cut-and-dry whether that hand could get there. A T2 kill with 1 piece of disruption is pretty consistent to get there. That's a safe assumption to make goldfishing. For a T5 kill with 1-2 pieces of disruption, it's really hard to tell. Maybe it would win, maybe it would flop. It depends a lot on the matchup and the opponent's draws, and that really needs to be tested in games more than goldfished. If you're committing to a slower plan, goldfishing loses value and test games are important. How does the opponent's interaction affect your plan?


    Quote Originally Posted by eatbasics View Post
    I am so sorry that I always dismiss all of your input, but I thought about most of these cards and interactions extensively and for me, they did not fit the strategy of the deck as good as the card I actually put into the list.
    Therefore it would take a lot of good arguments to convince me otherwise. I want to encourage everyone to keep trying nonetheless, if they truly think that there are better options
    I considered every input you gave and incorporate it into my brainstorming, testing, and theory crafting, and it helped a lot so far!
    Have you tested the cards and interactions in games? It's possible Reep and I are completely wrong about this. It would be clearer if there were any test games to back it up.
    Last edited by FTW; 01-11-2022 at 11:48 AM.

  16. #36

    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    Quote Originally Posted by eatbasics View Post
    I think both of you are under the same assumption that this combo deck has to be very fast. It does not have to be fast and is not designed in such a way, which does not mean that it cannot be fast
    A Fundamental magic theory is that combo is like aggro, but trades redundancy/resiliency for speed. In legacy pure aggro decks have a kill turn 3.5. Gaak, madness, eldrazi, burn all kill around then. Being both slower and more fragile than them is a very bad place to be.

    Slower combo decks need to be control-combo. Aluren, Food Chain, omni, GW Depths, Worldgorger Dragon are all viable. However they have an extremely compact combo, so they run more way more interaction and “fair” cards.
    SSG and lotus petal are terrible fair cards compared to KOTR, coatl, manipulate fate or uro.

    Trying to make a combo-control style deck with nic-fit has already been done with academy/arena rector. It has to use living wish instead of pact unfortunately. But the rectors seem both faster, more compact, and less fragile than ooze/hulk.

  17. #37
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    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    A Fundamental magic theory is that combo is like aggro, but trades redundancy/resiliency for speed. In legacy pure aggro decks have a kill turn 3.5. Gaak, madness, eldrazi, burn all kill around then. Being both slower and more fragile than them is a very bad place to be.

    Slower combo decks need to be control-combo. Aluren, Food Chain, omni, GW Depths, Worldgorger Dragon are all viable. However they have an extremely compact combo, so they run more way more interaction and “fair” cards.
    SSG and lotus petal are terrible fair cards compared to KOTR, coatl, manipulate fate or uro.

    Trying to make a combo-control style deck with nic-fit has already been done with academy/arena rector. It has to use living wish instead of pact unfortunately. But the rectors seem both faster, more compact, and less fragile than ooze/hulk.
    I believe that the deck fulfils the kill before turn 3.5 criterion. What I was trying to say is not that this is a slow combo deck by any means. It is designed in a way that is less glass canon T1 combo, but more of a solid T2-T3 combo deck that can still put up a fight even if the game happens to be longer than expected or, the other extreme, be a fast T1 killer if necessary.
    The deck is therefore not intended to be a combo-control style deck, and does not want to compare to nic-fit curses. However, it packs the main controlling nic-fit elements (Explorer/creatures+Therapy/discard) which can be used to switch to a more "controlling" game plan if the situation demands it.

  18. #38
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    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    I tested the OP list (with full SBs). 3 matches vs UR Delver (0-3) and 3 matches vs Goblins (1-2).

    The deck generally came together, but I found it was about 1 turn too slow. I kept losing the turn before it could win. Or I could go off quickly but opponent has just 1 more piece of disruption than I could handle. Just 1 resource short.

    I thought I finally had a win vs Delver, discarding their answers and making 5x Ooze. But opponent had DRC + Ragavan + stolen Explorer + 6/6 Murktide, then untapped to play Bolt + 2nd Murktide and had enough bodies to just beat the Oozes.

    Goblins' T2 Muxus -> Ringleader was enough to make Oozex6 too slow, and I was 1 mana short of Hulk, so instead I had to pass and take 40 damages. I did get the odd Hulk win vs Goblins though, especially preboard.

    Abundant Harvest was predictably bad. I kept 1 tutorless hand with Harvest and got VERY LUCKY cycling it into Summoner's Pact, otherwise that hand fizzled. A hand with Harvest but no real tutors should probably be a mull. Either a tutor or proper cantrip seems much better.

    I was often 1 turn too slow due to not having Delirium for Traverse the Ulvenwald or not being able to pay for Summoner's Pact, so I had to wait to establish more resources. Once I pulled off T2 Traverse with Lion's Eye Diamond crack in response, which enabled Delirium upon resolution. That interaction is pretty good. But without the LED combo I kept finding Traverse awkward and slow. It takes a couple turns to get Delirium, then Hulk is an 8-mana line or Ooze is a GGGG line. Veil of Summer adds another G to that line!

    It's awkward that Culling the Weak + Veteran Explorer -> BBBBGG (getting 2 untapped Forest). Unfortunately that's 1 mana short of Hulk or 1 GREEN mana short of Ooze. Multiple times that interaction came up and left me exactly 1 mana short of going off, costing me a turn. Opponent could then use that extra turn to set up disruption or race.

    The deck's not bad but is crippled by how many resources it takes to go off. Hardcasting Hulk is expensive. This deck doesn't rebuild resources easily either. Hulk seems more viable if it can be cheated out some way...

  19. #39
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    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I tested the OP list (with full SBs). 3 matches vs UR Delver (0-3) and 3 matches vs Goblins (1-2).

    The deck generally came together, but I found it was about 1 turn too slow. I kept losing the turn before it could win. Or I could go off quickly but opponent has just 1 more piece of disruption than I could handle. Just 1 resource short.

    I thought I finally had a win vs Delver, discarding their answers and making 5x Ooze. But opponent had DRC + Ragavan + stolen Explorer + 6/6 Murktide, then untapped to play Bolt + 2nd Murktide and had enough bodies to just beat the Oozes.

    Goblins' T2 Muxus -> Ringleader was enough to make Oozex6 too slow, and I was 1 mana short of Hulk, so instead I had to pass and take 40 damages. I did get the odd Hulk win vs Goblins though, especially preboard.

    Abundant Harvest was predictably bad. I kept 1 tutorless hand with Harvest and got VERY LUCKY cycling it into Summoner's Pact, otherwise that hand fizzled. A hand with Harvest but no real tutors should probably be a mull. Either a tutor or proper cantrip seems much better.

    I was often 1 turn too slow due to not having Delirium for Traverse the Ulvenwald or not being able to pay for Summoner's Pact, so I had to wait to establish more resources. Once I pulled off T2 Traverse with Lion's Eye Diamond crack in response, which enabled Delirium upon resolution. That interaction is pretty good. But without the LED combo I kept finding Traverse awkward and slow. It takes a couple turns to get Delirium, then Hulk is an 8-mana line or Ooze is a GGGG line. Veil of Summer adds another G to that line!

    It's awkward that Culling the Weak + Veteran Explorer -> BBBBGG (getting 2 untapped Forest). Unfortunately that's 1 mana short of Hulk or 1 GREEN mana short of Ooze. Multiple times that interaction came up and left me exactly 1 mana short of going off, costing me a turn. Opponent could then use that extra turn to set up disruption or race.

    The deck's not bad but is crippled by how many resources it takes to go off. Hardcasting Hulk is expensive. This deck doesn't rebuild resources easily either. Hulk seems more viable if it can be cheated out some way...
    Thank you a lot for testing the deck!

    I also submitted the deck as donation deck to The EPIC Storm's Bryant Cook, please find the link to the video here: https://youtu.be/UC84jYhmWDI

    They encountered the same issues as described by you, and came to some of the same conclusions and suggestions.

    I am digesting all the input I received so far and see what the takeaways are for me from your input and Bryant's video.

    PS: Updated the list and primer post already, discarding Abundant Harvest and adding a Videos section :)

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    Re: Jelly, Eggs and Bacon

    Interesting vid. Thanks for posting. I like Bryant's idea of Pattern of Rebirth. Forgot about that card. It has high synergy with the Nic Fit-Hulk plan.

    I also agree with boarding in Veil + Carpet against blue control (boarding out card-disadvantage acceleration), boarding in Thoughtseize against combo, and using Assassin's Trophy instead of Wilt.

    Actually, why doesn't the sideboard contain utility creatures when the combo engine uses creature tutors? Wouldn't it help if you could tutor for some answers?

    Edit: When I tested it, I didn't follow any SB guide. I boarded differently than your guide suggests. Bringing in Carpet + Veil together against blue decks was important, otherwise I'd be bottlenecked on green mana to cast Veil on the combo turn.
    Last edited by FTW; 01-20-2022 at 12:50 PM.

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