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Thread: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

  1. #41
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    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Seems good, especially in D&T. Pretty sure it's going to see play in some quantity. Being uncounterable is an added bonus.

    Makes you wonder if we get Channel variants of the former legendary lands in the other colors as well.

  2. #42

    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Seems good, especially in D&T. Pretty sure it's going to see play in some quantity. Being uncounterable is an added bonus.

    Makes you wonder if we get Channel variants of the former legendary lands in the other colors as well.
    We've already seen two, this and Take una (mill 3, then raise Dead)

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    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Wish they'd print goodies like that for black and red these days.
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  4. #44

    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Seems good, especially in D&T. Pretty sure it's going to see play in some quantity. Being uncounterable is an added bonus.

    Makes you wonder if we get Channel variants of the former legendary lands in the other colors as well.


    Presumably, but will they be any good? If they all do the opposite of what the originals do, then Okina could be good, and Mikokoro and Boseiju might be interesting. Minamo, Shizo, and Shinka...


    On the other hand, one doesn't want the format broken again.
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  5. #45

    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Quote Originally Posted by Goaswerfraiejen View Post
    Presumably, but will they be any good? If they all do the opposite of what the originals do, then Okina could be good, and Mikokoro and Boseiju might be interesting. Minamo, Shizo, and Shinka...


    On the other hand, one doesn't want the format broken again.
    If you never fix the format then technically it's only broken once even if it only gets worse

  6. #46
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    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    We've already seen two, this and Take una (mill 3, then raise Dead)
    I've completely forgotten about that one due to how bad it was, both as a card and as a scan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goaswerfraiejen View Post
    Presumably, but will they be any good? If they all do the opposite of what the originals do, then Okina could be good, and Mikokoro and Boseiju might be interesting. Minamo, Shizo, and Shinka...
    I don't see how fear and mill 3 + raise dead/PW are opposites of each other.

  7. #47

    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post


    I don't see how fear and mill 3 + raise dead/PW are opposites of each other.


    Eiganjo preventing vs. dealing damage is an inversion.
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    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Quote Originally Posted by Goaswerfraiejen View Post
    Eiganjo preventing vs. dealing damage is an inversion.
    Yes but the black one is Takenuma - which shows that they don't have to stick to the initial lands - and the abilities (mill and instant raise dead v. fear) don't have to be inversions of original lands.
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  9. #49

    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    Yes but the black one is Takenuma - which shows that they don't have to stick to the initial lands - and the abilities (mill and instant raise dead v. fear) don't have to be inversions of original lands.

    OK. I was working with just the information in the thread.

    But... in the interest of disentangling things, per my hypothesis, the channel-land that gives whatever the opposite of fear is would have been a new Shizo, not whatever land they pick that gives black mana.
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    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Yorion D&T should have room for 1. The downside is low and the upside of extra removal/flooding protection in an 80-card deck seems good.

    With Thalia, Guardian of Thraben in play it costs as much as Swords to Plowshares for an uncounterable Gideon's Reproach.

    Edit: looked at wrong page. Ninjad by 1000 cuts.

  11. #51

    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    http://mythicspoiler.com/neo/cards/satoruumezawa.jpg

    Not sure how good it is compared to other "cheating fatties into play" options since it skips attack triggers, but it's an interesting design, at least.
    It looks like ninjutsu can be done over and over, so there are silly infinites with, say, Worldgorger Dragon and Mistblade Shinobi replacing each other on the battlefield.

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    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    It looks like ninjutsu can be done over and over, so there are silly infinites with, say, Worldgorger Dragon and Mistblade Shinobi replacing each other on the battlefield.
    If I understand correctly your creatures are neither considered blocked nor unblocked until the opponent has a chance to declare blockers, so you can't just attack and ninja something in before passing priority. It's cute but it's super dependent on opponent allowing you to get away with it.
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    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    If I understand correctly your creatures are neither considered blocked nor unblocked until the opponent has a chance to declare blockers, so you can't just attack and ninja something in before passing priority. It's cute but it's super dependent on opponent allowing you to get away with it.
    I'm not 100% on what the "combo" implication is, but as I understand it, with Satoru Umezawa in play, if you attack with a creature an it is declared unblocked, which happens in the declare blockers step (509.1h) then you can pay and ninja anything into play. If you can float an extra as rufus suggests, put into play Worldgorger Dragon, it's ability will trigger in declare blockers after the opportunity to declare new blockers, so it it tapped an attacking and unblocked. You can use the floating mana to ninja out Mistblade Shinobi, triggering Worldgorger's second ability, getting all your land back and allowing to reset the cycle. If you have you can use Worldgorger & any other creature. All in the Declare Blockers step.

    It's not exactly Animate Dead, but it does work.
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  14. #54
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    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    I'm not 100% on what the "combo" implication is, but as I understand it, with Satoru Umezawa in play, if you attack with a creature an it is declared unblocked, which happens in the declare blockers step (509.1h) then you can pay and ninja anything into play. If you can float an extra as rufus suggests, put into play Worldgorger Dragon, it's ability will trigger in declare blockers after the opportunity to declare new blockers, so it it tapped an attacking and unblocked. You can use the floating mana to ninja out Mistblade Shinobi, triggering Worldgorger's second ability, getting all your land back and allowing to reset the cycle. If you have you can use Worldgorger & any other creature. All in the Declare Blockers step.

    It's not exactly Animate Dead, but it does work.
    I mean yeah the combo works, you just have to rely on your setup creature going unblocked. The best vessel is probably something like True-Name Nemesis for being cheap and protected from most kinds of disruption, or maybe even Invisible Stalker, but like... idk lol I don't feel great about this outside of kitchen table shenanigans
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    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    I mean yeah the combo works, you just have to rely on your setup creature going unblocked. The best vessel is probably something like True-Name Nemesis for being cheap and protected from most kinds of disruption, or maybe even Invisible Stalker, but like... idk lol I don't feel great about this outside of kitchen table shenanigans
    Oh in measures of viability I agree 100%. Any combo that starts off with "I just need 8 mana and these two specific creatures in play" seems something to come out of EDH games, not Legacy. Like I said, it's not something that isn't (wasn't?) already done better by Animate Dead, but maybe there's some other Worldgorger-esque creature that when cheated into play suddenly opens up angles not otherwise available before now.
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    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Oh in measures of viability I agree 100%. Any combo that starts off with "I just need 8 mana and these two specific creatures in play" seems something to come out of EDH games, not Legacy. Like I said, it's not something that isn't (wasn't?) already done better by Animate Dead, but maybe there's some other Worldgorger-esque creature that when cheated into play suddenly opens up angles not otherwise available before now.
    If you want to go for the kill, then the already mentioned Blightsteel Colossus is probably your best bet. Since it's guaranteed to kill them if it isn't killed on the spot, it should be pretty effective; outside of StP/Solitude, post-board Force of Vigor and Petty Theft, there aren't many ways to get rid of an indestructible 12/12 in that situation. Treasure Mage is on-color and could tutor for it, but the whole ordeal still seems pretty mana-inefficient.

    Unless you plan to play a UB Ninja deck with Yuriko, Saturo and a bunch of fatties (maybe even with S&T) to extract maximum value out of them, both with Yuriko nuking and Saturo cheating them into play.

  17. #57

    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    If you want to go for the kill, then the already mentioned Blightsteel Colossus is probably your best bet. Since it's guaranteed to kill them if it isn't killed on the spot, it should be pretty effective; outside of StP/Solitude, post-board Force of Vigor and Petty Theft, there aren't many ways to get rid of an indestructible 12/12 in that situation. Treasure Mage is on-color and could tutor for it, but the whole ordeal still seems pretty mana-inefficient.

    Unless you plan to play a UB Ninja deck with Yuriko, Saturo and a bunch of fatties (maybe even with S&T) to extract maximum value out of them, both with Yuriko nuking and Saturo cheating them into play.
    Value demon of drawing many cards is also still an option.

  18. #58

    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    I mean yeah the combo works, you just have to rely on your setup creature going unblocked. The best vessel is probably something like True-Name Nemesis for being cheap and protected from most kinds of disruption, or maybe even Invisible Stalker, but like... idk lol I don't feel great about this outside of kitchen table shenanigans
    Oh yeah, it was meant to be silly. The fact that ninjutsu only works with unblocked bodies and that it takes 3UUBB to cast and use Saturo Umezawa means that there are easier and more reliable ways to cheat fatties into play. Sneak Attack or Through the Breach pretty much plain better. (Just the mana cost by itself is prohibitive for legacy.)

    Not that I think there's really any more potential for it to be competitive, but there was a deck posted here a long time ago that combined Corrupt Court Official and Ravenous Rats with Skullsnatcher and Mistblade Shinobi. Saturo could work with a concept like that as chrome mox / force of will fodder on the low end and as a way to turn ninjutsu into more value on the high end.

  19. #59
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    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Two spoilers:

    Light paws, Emperors voice 1W
    Legendary creature - Fox advisor
    Whenever an aura enters the battlefield under your control, if you cast it, you may search your library for an aura card with mana value less than or equal to that aura and with different name than each aura you control, then put that card onto the battlefield attached to Light paws, Emperor's voice, then shuffle.
    2/2

    Mukotai Soulripper1B
    Artifact - Vehicle
    Whenever Mukotai Soulripper attacks, you may sacrifice another artifact or creature. if you do put a +1/+1 counter on Mukotai Soulripper and it gains menance till end of turn.
    Crew 2
    4/3

    The Vehicle is meh - but Light Paws is interesting. I'm wondering how it interacts with Daybreak Coronet? Do you need Light-paws to have another aura attached to it for the Daybreak Coronet to attach or does Light-Paw's ability automatically attach it?
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    Re: Kamigawa Neon Destiny - A victory lap around Netrunner

    Cast local enchant targeting anything -> resolve it -> do the fox's search clause -> put the tutored local enchant on fox.

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