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Thread: Turbo Discard 2022

  1. #1

    Turbo Discard 2022

    Hi guys, this brew strongly resembles 8 Rack but I assure you that versions of this deck have been around since 1997. Way back in the day this was a vintage deck and it ran 4x The Rack and 4x Demonic Consultation (before it was restricted) for tutoring up The Racks numbers 5-8. I'm not sure that it was ever very popular but I did win more than one tournament with it. It was mostly a deck on paper that had 50+ pages on a thread at one of the old MTG forum sites. Can't remember the name of the site but it's not around anymore.

    It received a boost when Gerrard's Verdict was printed in Apocalypse in 2001. The deck might now want to be known as 8-Hymn to separate it from it's 8-Rack modern cousin. It also ran cards such as Nekrataal, Skittering Skirge and in some builds Storm World.

    Game play wise, this deck is much faster and less controlish than 8 Rack also note that there is no Smallpox. Essentially empty your opponent's hand stack up Racks on your opponent and try to survive the next couple of turns by removing threats and hopefully gaining some life.

    Anyway, I think this deck might be able to return with cards like Urza's Saga for tutoring The Rack and Dauthi Voidwalker for munching graveyards and quickly dealing damage. I did manage to proxy it up and give it a few plays. I had favorable match ups against Maverick at 2-1 and Bant Control at 1-0 but didn't get a chance to test it against any other decks in the gauntlet. It certainly feels good enough for me to actually build this deck in paper.

    Some of the card slots on the list I added an alternative option. Example: 3x Vindicate / 3x Oath of Kaya. If you feel inclined, let me know what you think overall about the deck and also about the alternative cards.

    It seems like Oath of Kaya should really replace Vindicate. With Vindicate you get to destroy anything, but with Oath of Kaya you can kill creatures and planeswalkers and/or deal direct damage to an opponent (possibly finishing them off) plus you gain life to hopefully help keep you around another turn. Icing on the cake is that it punishes players going after Liliana.

    Here's the deck:

    TURBO DISCARD: 60 Card

    //RACKS: 8
    4x The Rack
    4x Urza's Saga (fetches The Rack)

    //HARD HAND REMOVAL: 16
    4x Hymn to Tourach
    4x Gerrard's Verdict
    4x Raven's Crime
    2x Thoughtseize
    2x Inquisition of Kozilek

    //DUDES: 6
    4x Dauthi Voidwalker
    2x Tidehollow Sculler / Silverquill Silencer

    //TOOLS / REMOVAL / HAND REMOVAL: 11
    4x Liliana of the Veil
    3x Vindicate / Oath of Kaya
    2x Liliana's Triumph
    1x Cursed Scroll
    1x Necrogen Spellbomb

    //LAND: 23 (counting Urza's Saga)
    2x Castle Locthwain
    2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1x Swamp
    2x Concealed Courtyard / Caves of Koilos
    4x Marsh Flats
    4x Bloodstained Mire
    4x Scrubland

    //SIDEBOARD: 15
    2x Bontu's Last Reckoning
    3x Deafening Silence
    1x Hex Parasite
    2x Liliana's Triumph
    1x Pithing Needle
    3x Silverquill Silencer
    3x Vindicate / Silverquill Silencer
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

  2. #2
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    Re: Turbo Discard 2022

    I remember this deck from the early 00s. It was good when Gerrard's Verdict and Vindicate were very strong effects for their mana costs. However both those cards weakened in value over the years and are not really Legacy playable.

    It was distinct from Pox.dec as Smallpox had not been printed yet. Though I believe that deck eventually evolved into Deadguy Ale and Pox.

    What's the rationale to bring this back now, after all these years? There are already monoblack decks like this. I would think the best reasons to splash white would be Swords to Plowshares, Prismatic Ending and Karakas - not Gerrard's Verdict or Vindicate.

    If on the Raven's Crime plan, why white splash (for BW spells) instead of green splash for Life from the Loam? Or at least Bob to draw more cards?

  3. #3

    Re: Turbo Discard 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I remember this deck from the early 00s. It was good when Gerrard's Verdict and Vindicate were very strong effects for their mana costs. However both those cards weakened in value over the years and are not really Legacy playable.

    It was distinct from Pox.dec as Smallpox had not been printed yet. Though I believe that deck eventually evolved into Deadguy Ale and Pox.

    What's the rationale to bring this back now, after all these years? There are already monoblack decks like this. I would think the best reasons to splash white would be Swords to Plowshares, Prismatic Ending and Karakas - not Gerrard's Verdict or Vindicate.

    If on the Raven's Crime plan, why white splash (for BW spells) instead of green splash for Life from the Loam? Or at least Bob to draw more cards?
    Thanks for the response FTW! You're feedback is always appreciated!

    You are correct about Vindicate not being the powerhouse it used to be. I do think that Gerrard's Verdict is really what makes this deck possible. It is surprisingly frustrating to play against. Having 8 Hymns in a deck is sort of the reverse of running mana denial. If your opponent has no cards they can't play Magic. I'll probably build the deck for nostalgia reasons even if it turns out it's not quite good enough to compete with the high tier decks. It did do pretty dang good against the 2 gauntlet decks I played it against.

    Surprisingly, it did not do quite well against my opponent's non-gauntlet brew. He was playing what he calls Paint It White which is essentially mono white Painter combo with Urza's Saga, Esper Sentinel, Prismatic Ending etc.. We played a bunch of games and were close to 50/50 with him slightly in the lead.

    The reason I wasn't playing Swords to Plowshares is because my opponent gaining life is really bad being that this is a tempo deck. I was actually running Path to Exile in the Vindicate slot. However, I didn't like how it ramped my opponent. Mid way through our play session I switched them up to Bloodchief's Thirst. Those were a little better but still limited. I'm not sure why I wasn't running Prismatic Ending as you mentioned. Those should be in there for sure!

    I noticed you mentioned running Bob. I actually had him in an early list. Then I switched it up to Asylum Visitor. He seemed really strong but I just ran out of room to include him.

    Here's a list of cards that were considered before testing.
    Asylum Visitor
    Bontu's Last Reckoning
    Ghostly Prison
    Grief
    Hex Parasite
    Hypnotic Specter
    Liliana's Specter
    Mishra's Factory
    Mutavault
    Nezumi Shortfang
    Nyxathid
    Oath of Kaya
    Oppression
    Rotting Regisaur
    Shadowspear
    Silverquill Silencer
    Sin Collector
    Stoneforge Mystic

    Anyway, I'll keep up some testing reports if anyone is interested. And like I said, this deck heavy on tempo and is quite fast on the finish.
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

  4. #4

    Re: Turbo Discard 2022

    If you want to play WB discard jank, you arenít going nearly turbo enough. How about Waste Not into Grief shenanigans. White then gives you stuff like ephemerate and sevinnes reclamation.

  5. #5
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    Re: Turbo Discard 2022

    This.

    Grief + Ephemerate and Tourach, Dread Cantor are new tools that should probably replace outdated tech like Gerrard's Verdict and Raven's Crime (without Loam). If you want tempo, it's hard to beat turn 1 double Thoughtseize + 3/2 Menace (black Delver).

    Prismatic Ending is more versatile than Vindicate due to mana cost, though it wouldn't hurt to have 1-2 Vindicate as removal for 3 cmc+ permanents that Ending will miss.

    Edit: Ephemerate also has synergy with Tidehollow Sculler and Stoneforge Mystic, so maybe you want to be on those cards too?

    Bontu's Last Reckoning is really bad on tempo. It didn't even see much play in Standard and Historic. Legacy BW already has Toxic Deluge, Terminus, Dead of Winter, Pox, and Plague Engineer at that mana cost.

    You shouldn't need Deafening Silence to beat storm with so much discard already. Those slots could be for other matchups. Make sure you have answers for Chalice decks (Ending/Vindicate) and graveyard decks before your turn 2 (Leyline of the Void, Faerie Macabre, Tormod's Crypt?).

  6. #6
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    Re: Turbo Discard 2022

    How is Damn not an automatic 4-of in here? Seems tailor-made for a deck like this. I'm also not convinced Liliana is an automatic 4-of anymore for legacy. I think something like Ensnaring Bridge is likely better given the resilience of powerful threats like Uro. I also think maindeck Surgical Extraction would be quite good. Fracture also deserves attention, for its sheer efficiency over Vindicate.

    Good luck, very cool idea. I need something similar to build, I have an itch to play a Pox-like deck but Pox just doesn't cut it anymore.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

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    Re: Turbo Discard 2022

    Damn is worse than Swords to Plowshares in most cases, the most relevant ones being Marit Lage (instant speed indestructible), Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath (lol), and overpowered 1 drops like Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer (trading 2 mana for 1 mana is bad vs Daze decks).

    At 2 mana there is Sudden Edict, which is at least uncounterable and answers Marit Lage, Sneak Attacked creatures, etc.

    Damn certainly replaces Wrath of God, but that card already sees about 0 play. Maybe 1-2 copies are OK.

  8. #8
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    Re: Turbo Discard 2022

    You might change your mind after playing against Kappa Cannoneer, from all reports the thing is a house. I wouldn't play damn over Swords, but there were no copies of Swords in the posted deck either. I think Prismatic ending is probably a more important card overall.

    Comparing Damn to Wrath of God is reductive; the power level and flexibility of newer cards is astronomically better now. Damn is Doom Blade most of the time and Wrath of God sometimes, and fits in 2 spots of your curve.

    News flash also: Ragavan is banned. There aren't any other 1 drops even close to matching Ragavan anymore. Delver decks should be pretty soft to this sort of deck. Also you neglected to mention the single biggest threat in legacy right now: Murktide Regent. If you were arguing from that point, I would give more weight to the point. Marit Lage is something that may not need a maindeck answer, but I would also point to the fact that the best one is probably Karakas.

    Sudden edict could be a Sideboard card for specifically Marit Lage, although the most prevalent version right now is GW, which has quite a few other creatures to minimize that interaction.

    In a deck like this, I have the opinion that flexibility game 1 is more important than Uber efficiency. Damn is incredibly flexible.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  9. #9

    Re: Turbo Discard 2022

    Thanks Mr. Safety! I'm in agreement with you. Took me a while to get back to this thread. Sorry about that. I will actually get a chance to play this again on Friday.

    I really like your suggestions. We don't want Swords to Plowshares. Opponent gaining life is the opposite thing this deck wants to do. It really wants to kill quickly after opponent's hand has been obliterated.

    Your recommendation for Damn is spot on to me. Not sure how I overlooked that one. It should certainly run 4x maindeck. I'm also in love with Fracture. Great recommendations!

    I also am not a huge fan of Lilly but I feel like she does everything this deck wants to do.

    I honestly think this deck can beat Izzet Delver. I'll play it on Friday and then post the results.

    Thoughts on delve dudes like Tombstalker?

    Here's a more updated list.

    TURBO DISCARD: 60 Card

    //RACKS: 8
    4x The Rack
    4x Urza's Saga (fetches The Rack)

    //HARD HAND REMOVAL: 16
    4x Hymn to Tourach
    4x Gerrard's Verdict
    4x Raven's Crime
    2x Thoughtseize
    2x Inquisition of Kozilek

    //DUDES: 4
    4x Dauthi Voidwalker
    1x Tombstalker

    //TOOLS / REMOVAL / HAND REMOVAL: 11
    4x Liliana of the Veil
    4x Damn
    2x Fracture
    1x Cursed Scroll
    1x Necrogen Spellbomb

    //LAND: 23 (counting Urza's Saga)
    2x Castle Locthwain
    2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1x Swamp
    2x Concealed Courtyard / Caves of Koilos
    4x Marsh Flats
    4x Bloodstained Mire
    4x Scrubland

    //SIDEBOARD: 15
    ???
    ???
    ???
    ???
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

  10. #10
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    Re: Turbo Discard 2022

    I don't think Liliana is bad at all, but I don't think 4 is correct anymore. I like something that goes wide for a finisher for a deck like this, like Bitterblossom or Lingering Souls.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  11. #11

    Re: Turbo Discard 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I don't think Liliana is bad at all, but I don't think 4 is correct anymore. I like something that goes wide for a finisher for a deck like this, like Bitterblossom or Lingering Souls.
    I did play the above list yesterday but with 2x Tombstalkers and 1x Fracture and did really well. I played 7 games against Izzet Delver and went 5-2. That's pretty dang good. I knew this deck was going to do well against aggro and tempo strategies.

    I like the Lillys because they count as both discard and removal. The Tombstalkers were great and helped me close out some games quickly. Shouldn't there be a better finisher though? Regisaur seems not shitty but he has no evasion.

    I do like Lingering Souls but they are pretty mana intensive and slow. They're good with Lilly when you need something to discard. Not a huge fan of the life loss from the Bitterblossoms.
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

  12. #12
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    Re: Turbo Discard 2022

    That's reasonable, when I played 8rack in modern I played Tarmogoyf for the same reason, to close games fast. I definitely think you want evasion, it's just too important. Tombstalker seems about the best. I'm not sure if it's enough value, but Timeless Dragon seems good. It can be discarded to Liliana and still make a 4/4 flyer, or it can settle your mana easily and still make a dude. It can get both Scrubland or a basic plains if you ever decide to include one.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  13. #13

    Re: Turbo Discard 2022

    @Mr Safety: Yes, closing out games fast is the goal! Trying to find something to add more pressure.

    Played 11 games against 8-Cast with a list similar to the above one accept I was running an additional Tombstalker. I did fairly well. We went 6-5 so that match up was fairly even. The fact that this deck beats up UR Delver is probably one of the best reasons to play this deck. My buddy says he'll have 8-Mulch ready for next week's match up if you guys are interested in the results.

    In the new list I wanted to test Tourach, Dread Cantor. Honestly, I know this is already being played in Mono Black Aggro right now and it seems like a perfect fit here, I just don't like it. I'll give it a go though. I cut Necrogen Spellbomb. Every time I drew it I wished it was something else. I never used it once. Also, Asylum Visitor seems not shitty here. Here's the newish list:

    //RACKS: 8
    4x The Rack
    4x Urza's Saga (fetches The Rack)

    //HARD HAND REMOVAL: 16
    4x Hymn to Tourach
    4x Gerrard's Verdict
    4x Raven's Crime
    2x Thoughtseize
    2x Inquisition of Kozilek

    //DUDES: 8
    4x Dauthi Voidwalker
    2x Tombstalker
    2x Spirit of the Labyrinth

    //TOOLS / REMOVAL / HAND REMOVAL: 9
    4x Liliana of the Veil
    4x Damn
    1x Cursed Scroll


    //LAND: 23 (counting Urza's Saga)
    3x Vault of Whispers
    1x Castle Locthwain
    1x Swamp
    2x Silent Clearing
    4x Marsh Flats
    4x Bloodstained Mire
    4x Scrubland

    //SIDEBOARD:
    3x Fracture
    1x Meekstone
    1x Pithing Needle
    1x Nihil Spellbomb
    1x Hex Parasite
    2x Cathar Commando
    ???


    EDIT: Made some changes. Updated the deck for the better:
    1). Cut Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Why was I running this?
    2). Tombstalkers and Labyrinths.
    3). Added Vault of Whispers to support robot tokens.
    4). Fleshing out a start to a sideboard.
    5). Silent Clearing over Concealed Courtyard. Smoothing out the mana base.
    Last edited by Laser Brains; 04-19-2022 at 03:58 AM.
    "WaaaauuugghhhaaaauuugghhhaauuugghhhaaauuugghhhW" -Chewbacca

  14. #14

    Re: Turbo Discard 2022

    Hi,

    thanks for the great deck. I have always been a great fan of Discard Decks searching for a Legacy Deck which is competitive and can win.
    I took your deck, modified it and played it at our regular Magic Evening. We are 6-8 Player all playing with Legacy Decks against each other.
    So last weekend we had our evening and i played the deck (below) in 6 Matches against different Decks. I will give some comments about the matchup and how the deck did against the others.
    Unfortunatly i just could won 1 Match, but alle Matchups were really close and i did have some Mulligan problems. Also there were two "Blood Moon Decks" which killed me.

    First here my Deck i played with some comments.

    Creatures (7)
    3 Dauthi Voidwalker
    2 Tombstalker
    2 Tourach, Dread Cantor -- Will remove both of them. Everytime i draw him i felt i would need a other card.

    Planeswalker (4)
    4 Liliana of the Veil

    Spells (20)
    4 Gerrard's Verdict -- 4x Perfect
    4 Hymn to Tourach -- 4x Perfect
    3 Inquisition of Kozilek -- Its so important to have a Inquisition or Thoughtsize on your starting hand. I will add a 4th one.
    4 Raven's Crime -- I felt 4 are to much, i really like the card, but i often had it on my starting hand and thought why i didnt have a Inquisition. Will cut it to 3
    3 Swords to Plowshares -- Don't know if this is the best option - maybe an other card would be better
    2 Thoughtseize -- Good, but i have to say the 2 damage hurt, i wil not put 3 in the deck, i think 2 is good.

    Artifacts (5)
    1 Cursed Scroll -- Will keep it, put preasure on my oppponents so that they had to remove it instead of the rack.
    4 The Rack -- 4x Perfect

    Enchantments (2)
    2 Shrieking Affliction -- often did it's job, i think i will keep two of them in the deck.

    Lands (22) -- i guess 22 Lands is not enough, 23 at least. Several times i had to mulligan because i hadn't enough lands on the sgtarting hands.
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Castle Locthwain
    4 Marsh Flats
    4 Scrubland
    1 Silent Clearing
    1 Swamp -- Need more Basic lands
    4 Urza's Saga -- 4x Perfect
    3 Vault of Whispers -- I think i will exchange these against Basic Lands.

    Sideboard (15)
    2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
    2 Damn
    3 Fracture
    1 Meekstone
    1 Pithing Needle
    3 Dread of Night
    3 Leyline of the Void


    Here the Matches i played.

    Bant Stoneblade 1:2
    First Match: Easy win for me
    Second Match: Really close, i got my Opponent to 2 life but he won beacuse i could't make any more preasure.
    Third Match: I nearly had him but then he cast a white card (don't know the name) which destroys all Enchantments/Artifacts at upkeep. Fortunatly i had a Fracture and destroyed his card and safed my 2 Racks. He drew the same card the next turn and destroyed my Racks and won the match really close.

    Grixis Delver 1:2
    First Match: Win
    Second and third Match i had to Mulligan 2 times and never got into the game.

    Blood Moon 0:2
    First Match: First Turn Blood Moon from my opponent, that's it.
    Second Match: Went longer, i milled his hand to zero but had no Rack or creature to kill him. He then draw Blood moon, that's it.

    Blood Moon 1:2
    First Match: I won, started with Inquistion, milled his Blood Moon, following secund turn Hymn and i could downplay him
    Second Match: First turn Bloodmonn from my opponennt, that's it.
    Third Match: Had to take 2 Mulligans, still no good hand and just one Land. That's it.

    Burning Reanimator 2:1
    First Match: My opponents good a first or second turn Griselbrand and won the game
    Second Match: I got a Dauthi Voidwalker second turn which blocked him, finally kille by Rack and Dauthi.
    Third Match: First turn Leyline from my side and he was done.

    UB Rouges 1:2

    If you are the starting player and your starting hand is like: 2 Lands, Inquisition/ or Thoughtsize and Hymn to Tourach or Gerrards Verdict it was always a good match for me.
    Not beeing the starting player is much more difficult. And having to Lands on the Starting hand is a must have.

    I will give an update on the deck as soon as i changed it. I am really interessed in your opinions and improvement recommendations.

    Sorry for my language i am not an native english speaker ;)
    And sorry for not linking the cards, i just don't know how, that's my first post on this board.

  15. #15
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    Re: Turbo Discard 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by DaVerve View Post
    Creatures (7)
    3 Dauthi Voidwalker
    2 Tombstalker
    2 Tourach, Dread Cantor -- Will remove both of them. Everytime i draw him i felt i would need a other card.

    Planeswalker (4)
    4 Liliana of the Veil

    Spells (20)
    4 Gerrard's Verdict -- 4x Perfect
    4 Hymn to Tourach -- 4x Perfect
    3 Inquisition of Kozilek -- Its so important to have a Inquisition or Thoughtsize on your starting hand. I will add a 4th one.
    4 Raven's Crime -- I felt 4 are to much, i really like the card, but i often had it on my starting hand and thought why i didnt have a Inquisition. Will cut it to 3
    3 Swords to Plowshares -- Don't know if this is the best option - maybe an other card would be better
    2 Thoughtseize -- Good, but i have to say the 2 damage hurt, i wil not put 3 in the deck, i think 2 is good.

    Artifacts (5)
    1 Cursed Scroll -- Will keep it, put preasure on my oppponents so that they had to remove it instead of the rack.
    4 The Rack -- 4x Perfect

    Enchantments (2)
    2 Shrieking Affliction -- often did it's job, i think i will keep two of them in the deck.

    Lands (22) -- i guess 22 Lands is not enough, 23 at least. Several times i had to mulligan because i hadn't enough lands on the sgtarting hands.
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Castle Locthwain
    4 Marsh Flats
    4 Scrubland
    1 Silent Clearing
    1 Swamp -- Need more Basic lands
    4 Urza's Saga -- 4x Perfect
    3 Vault of Whispers -- I think i will exchange these against Basic Lands.

    Sideboard (15)
    2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
    2 Damn
    3 Fracture
    1 Meekstone
    1 Pithing Needle
    3 Dread of Night
    3 Leyline of the Void
    Welcome to this board! Thanks for posting here.

    You don't need so many nonbasics for a 2 color deck. It really cost you vs Blood Moon!
    I'd change the mana to this
    4 Marsh Flats
    4 Prismatic Vista
    2 Scrubland
    5 Swamp
    2 Plains
    1 Castle Locthwain
    4 Urza's Saga
    --> 16 black & 12 white

    Your deck needs so little white mana. 1 plains casts everything except SB Damn Overload. Fetch basics more often and you'll be fine.

    For more pressure, add 1 Currency Converter. It works very well with Liliana and Raven's Crime when you discard cards.

    You have 3 Dread of Night but faced no white creature decks. Why not have Plague Engineer and Damn instead?

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