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Thread: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

  1. #61
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    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    Still seems way worse as it boosts your opponent's mana while Spell Pierce leaves them with nothing and the added mind tax of playing around Spell Pierce.

    Edit:


    Is this abusable in a Red Stompy deck somehow?

  2. #62
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    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Since it triggers on casting, the copy made can't be countered (expect for Stifle). Might be cool, but who knows? The opponents can just choose to eat the damage instead of discarding, right?
    I guess it matters if the active word here is "as" or "when". The word "as" is generally indicative of a static effect that becomes part of the execution of an action (that's not Comp Rules wording, that's my wording). There aren't a ton of things that do this; the first example I can think of is Meddling Mage. You can't Stifle its ability because it says "as" and not "when", it just occurs as part of its resolution.

    Buuuuut as always, this is rules speculation ahead of the full release of the set and that's always dodgy, so who knows, maybe this will be treated as a regular-ass trigger, I could see that maybe applying to the "when" part of the ability. If so then it's a really bad ability because it'll let you sac the creature as payment and then be open to Stifle and similar cards, boo
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  3. #63

    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    As you cast is the additional cost. The copy is a “when” trigger. This is basically the same as Plumb the forbidden
    You have 2 spells so I don’t see how you get blown out except for stuff like amindbreak Trap. A 3 mana planeswalker that requires 2 counterspells makes me think this is at least in the consideration for older formats. It’s possible the “browbeat” effect is too weak, but I don’t see the issue you are referring to.

  4. #64

    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    I guess it matters if the active word here is "as" or "when". The word "as" is generally indicative of a static effect that becomes part of the execution of an action (that's not Comp Rules wording, that's my wording). There aren't a ton of things that do this; the first example I can think of is Meddling Mage. You can't Stifle its ability because it says "as" and not "when", it just occurs as part of its resolution.

    Buuuuut as always, this is rules speculation ahead of the full release of the set and that's always dodgy, so who knows, maybe this will be treated as a regular-ass trigger, I could see that maybe applying to the "when" part of the ability. If so then it's a really bad ability because it'll let you sac the creature as payment and then be open to Stifle and similar cards, boo
    I think you are (at least were) right about the first part.
    Casualty is not a triggered ability which you can respond to.
    Considering that they change their templating all the time and the general quality of templating in recent years, who knows.

    However, the copy should still go on the stack as it's done while cast and says "this spell".
    Then you should still be able to counter it.
    Otherwise it wouldn't make sense with instants/sorceries wouldn't make sense.
    Here, the templating is bad in genreal as some cards "cast copies" while most just copy.

    Anyone else really not digging the art this set?
    Looks like Ravnica, Kaladesh and Neon Genesis Kamigawa had an ugly child which they dropped in the 20s.

  5. #65

    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Since it triggers on casting, the copy made can't be countered (expect for Stifle). Might be cool, but who knows? The opponents can just choose to eat the damage instead of discarding, right?
    It can. Just like copies of storm and replicate spells can be countered. A copied spell goes on the stack and can be responded too.
    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    I guess it matters if the active word here is "as" or "when". The word "as" is generally indicative of a static effect that becomes part of the execution of an action (that's not Comp Rules wording, that's my wording). There aren't a ton of things that do this; the first example I can think of is Meddling Mage. You can't Stifle its ability because it says "as" and not "when", it just occurs as part of its resolution.

    Buuuuut as always, this is rules speculation ahead of the full release of the set and that's always dodgy, so who knows, maybe this will be treated as a regular-ass trigger, I could see that maybe applying to the "when" part of the ability. If so then it's a really bad ability because it'll let you sac the creature as payment and then be open to Stifle and similar cards, boo
    It's both. This is covered under reflexive triggers: The ability to sacrifice is an additional cost. When you pay it, the ability puts a trigger on the stack. And the trigger will resolve and put a copy on the stack. And then the copy will resolve. And then the original will resolve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    As you cast is the additional cost. The copy is a “when” trigger. This is basically the same as Plumb the forbidden
    You have 2 spells so I don’t see how you get blown out except for stuff like amindbreak Trap. A 3 mana planeswalker that requires 2 counterspells makes me think this is at least in the consideration for older formats. It’s possible the “browbeat” effect is too weak, but I don’t see the issue you are referring to.
    Correct. I can't wait to sacrifice some gravecrawlers and/or bloodghasts

  6. #66

    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    For those who need more, here's today's rules xplainer
    As an additional cost to cast a spell with casualty, you may sacrifice an underling . . . sorry, a creature with power N or greater, where N is the number that appears after the keyword. If you choose to do so, a triggered ability triggers that copies the spell. If the original spell required any targets, you'll get to choose new targets for the copy. The copy is created directly on the stack, so it's not "cast," meaning its casualty ability won't do anything, and you can't copy it again. The copy is still a spell on the stack though, so it can be responded to and countered as normal, and it will actually resolve before the original spell.

    Bloodthirsty though you may be, you may sacrifice only one creature to any one casualty ability. If a spell has casualty 2, for example, you can't sacrifice two 1/1 creatures, although I appreciate your spirit.

  7. #67

    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post


    I know it’s a meme, but Possible nic fit playable? 3 mana for 2 planeswalkers, one of which provides an immediate blocker and the other drains your opponent for 2
    The + being a punisher mechanic is really bad. If the - was -1 maybe it could see play in some decks; more likely in Modern. And I can't really think of a way to abuse the cast ability to instantly ultimate. Too bad it wasn't loyalty = CMC.

  8. #68

    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    An interesting take on Spell Pierce:


    Not that many people are playing Spell Pierce right now.
    This is most plausibly playable in a combo deck since if you're winning the game that turn you wouldn't really care about the drawback. Control I doubt since you don't want to ramp them. No way a Daze deck would play this.

  9. #69
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    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    This is most plausibly playable in a combo deck since if you're winning the game that turn you wouldn't really care about the drawback. Control I doubt since you don't want to ramp them. No way a Daze deck would play this.
    Annihilator 6 matters here.

  10. #70

    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Annihilator 6 matters here.
    That's a good point for Emmy win cons. Honestly, Swan Song has a far lesser drawback and sees no play. This won't either.

  11. #71

    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Annihilator [s]6[/s]4 matters here.

  12. #72

    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    This is most plausibly playable in a combo deck since if you're winning the game that turn you wouldn't really care about the drawback. Control I doubt since you don't want to ramp them. No way a Daze deck would play this.
    I disagree. No control deck plays beast within, but Path to Exile and boseiju, who endures and Assassin’s Trophy are reasonable control cards for modern at least. 2 temporary mana vs 1 permanent mana is a wash, imo.

    Combo can play swan song because they are winning quickly making the swan irrelevant. Control will have to answer the token eventually, making it quite bad. Control is already planning on giving the opponent lots of time until the opponent runs out of gas. If you hit anything more expensive than 1 mana this is the same tempo loss as duress.

  13. #73

    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    The + being a punisher mechanic is really bad. If the - was -1 maybe it could see play in some decks; more likely in Modern. And I can't really think of a way to abuse the cast ability to instantly ultimate. Too bad it wasn't loyalty = CMC.
    I agree punisher mechanics are bad, but I think the loyalty costs are hard to evaluate because you have 2 not 1 of them. Effectively that adds +1 loyalty to every cost. In a 3 turn cycle you can drain for 8 and make 2 devils at neutral loyalty. Would you play a 3 cmc pw with +2 browbeat for 8 life or 4 cards and -1 make a devil?

  14. #74

    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    Seems like you would naturally want to test the card in Rakdos sacrifice. 3 mana Planeswalkers tend to overperform initial predictions. We shall wait and see.

    Same for the Counter Spell card. I don't think it will see much if any play in Legacy or Modern but again we shall see.

  15. #75
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    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    Seems like you would naturally want to test the card in Rakdos sacrifice. 3 mana Planeswalkers tend to overperform initial predictions. We shall wait and see.

    Same for the Counter Spell card. I don't think it will see much if any play in Legacy or Modern but again we shall see.
    I think there is a pretty high bar for this card to outperform 3cmc Daretti for that mana cost.

  16. #76

    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    I think there is a pretty high bar for this card to outperform 3cmc Daretti for that mana cost.
    Daze, Veteran Explorer, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, any removal, takes 4 instead of 2 attackers to kill when it comes down, gains loyalty 2x as fast…

    The card’s effects are weak but this will be very annoying to try to deal with completely; I think any 3 cmc pw that can have 6 loyalty on t3 is worth testing, purely out of respect for oko.

  17. #77

    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    I think there is a pretty high bar for this card to outperform 3cmc Daretti for that mana cost.
    I was thinking it was more of a realistic test card for Modern where there are actual playable Rakdos and Mardu decks and no Daretti.

  18. #78

    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    Just sacrifice a dreadnought. Then you get it with 12 loyalty!

  19. #79
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    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Just sacrifice a dreadnought. Then you get it with 12 loyalty!
    Life's Legacy: waiting for this as instant +/- the lifegain bonus from Momentous Fall, which unlike this PW beats removal (additional cost with priority).

  20. #80
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    Re: Streets of New Capenna: High-way or dead end?



    You can make your own giddeons!

    Wondering which PWs have a good CMC to Counter Ratio?

    Looking at the <=3CMC
    Ajani caller of pride is a 6/6 once equiped (4 loyalty, +1 counter, and then +1 from counting the counter, and then will grow by 3 each time you use the +1) - this weird double counting of counters should also work with Kaya Geist hunter
    Huatali and Kiora could be 7/7s

    There's also a bunch of good PWs that can be 5/5 such as Narset.
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