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Thread: Discard Monarch

  1. #1

    Discard Monarch

    I like being the monarch, and I like Solitary Confinement, and they work well together, so I wanted to try to make something around those cards. I would like to get something ready for the small local legacy tournament in three weeks (expected decks: UR Delver, UW Stoneforge/TNN, Uro, Nic Fit, Burn).

    Here is a first draft, but I am unsure about how much I should lean into the "combo" and what to do with the rest of the deck. I currently have a bit of disruption, but it could easily go into black more heavily and include Dark Ritual. I could also play cards like Thalia in those slots instead, and be a little more aggressive. Are there any cards/ideas that I am overlooking? Thanks.

    Win Conditions
    4 Court of Grace
    2 Court of Ambition

    "Combo" Pieces
    4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
    4 Master of Death
    4 Necrogen Mists
    4 Solitary Confinement

    Disruption
    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Cabal Therapy
    4 Sudden Edict
    4 Fracture

    24 Lands

    Cards under consideration:
    Scrying/Life Gain
    Charming Prince
    Era of Enlightenment

    Heavier Black Discard
    Rotting Regisaur
    Necrogoyf
    Bottomless Pit

    Alternative to Courts
    Doom Foretold

    Also: Swords to Plowshares, Wall of Shards, Mana Tithe

  2. #2

    Re: Discard Monarch

    Turbo Fog always has an issue that your game plan can fall apart quickly and some decks don’t care. I do like the idea of courts. If they do care about fogs, then even if they eventually find an answer you are so far ahead that they can’t recover. And decks that don’t care about the fog part are inherently weak to the monarch.

    I think you need more than 4 fog effects. Consider
    Island Sanctuary
    Rest In Peace
    Energy Field
    Ensnaring Bridge
    City in a Bottle
    Orim’s Chant
    Moat

    You have a lot of clunky “return to hand” cards. I think you need to either run more effects to turn them into cards (faithless looting, grief) or cut them and only rely on the monarch.

  3. #3
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    Re: Discard Monarch

    The overall plan of Solitary Confinement + Monarch effect seems good. They have a nice synergy of sustaining each other.

    But I think you're leaning too much into the "combo" and redundant effects of this self-discard cheese. Instead you could be running good cards to stabilize the early game and interact with the opponent's plan. 8 Squee + 8 "discard every turn" is overdoing it. It'll be really bad if you draw 3 Squees with no payoff, or even 2 "discard every turn"s with no enabler. Especially with no blue cantrips to fix draws (like most 8A+8B combos have).

    Another issue is that Monarch effects do not stack. If you have 2 Court of Grace in play, you don't draw 2 extra cards. You just draw the 1 extra card and get 2 Court triggers. That means 2 Court + 2 Necrogen Mists is a nonbo, even though you're trying to combo Courts + Mists/Confinement. Why 6 Courts then? I would cut down to 3-4 Court effects total (e.g. 2 Court of Grace + 2 Court of Ambition, or a 2-1 split). They have diminishing returns. The 2nd copy is worse than the 1st, and you need an enabler in play (like Confinement) to keep the Monarch in the first place. They're very bad if opponent ever steals the Monarch from your creatureless deck.

    You also want more early game interaction so you aren't far behind before trying to cast 3-4 mana enchantments into Wasteland+Daze/Thalia. Thoughtseize is good. Other low CMC staples like Swords to Plowshares, Prismatic Ending, Hymn to Tourach, Karakas, Cling to Dust should also be good. Maybe Enlightened Tutor to find pieces instead of having to run so many copies of high CMC conditional cards.

    Do not play your own Thalia in a deck with 3-4 mana enchantments.

    Necrogen Mists --> Liliana of the Veil. Liliana's +1 essentially does the same thing, except you have more control over when to use it (don't have to discard if your enabler is disrupted) and you can kill stuff too.

    Edit: Just noticed this is for a small local paper tournament and not online. Budget may be a strong factor then. What's your budget and/or card availability?

  4. #4

    Re: Discard Monarch

    The idea is probably sound but, as said by others already, pretty vulnerable.

    You need more tools to stabilize yourself (removal + discard) so you can actually drop your engine pieces before being shredded.
    Seems like Enlightened Tutor should be in there somewhere as well.
    Given the colors, adding Leyline/RIP+Helm might be as 2nd possible angle as they work well with the discard plan.

    The deck still seems very week vs unfair decks if you don't hit 3 discards in the first 2 turns or have an instant removal for avatars.
    If the meta is what you describe it should do reasonably well.

  5. #5
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    Re: Discard Monarch

    As a rough starting shell...


    //Good Stuff: 14
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Prismatic Ending
    2 Cling to Dust
    2 Sudden Edict

    //Planeswalker: 3
    3 Liliana of the Veil

    //Prison: 8
    4 Solitary Confinement
    2 Court of Ambition
    1 Court of Grace
    1 Humility

    //Squees?: 3
    0-1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
    0-1 Grim Reminder
    0-1 Exile into Darkness

    //Other Flex: 10
    2-3 Enlightened Tutor
    3 Curse of Silence
    2-4 Hymn to Tourach
    1-2 Vanishing Verse

    //Lands: 22
    4 Marsh Flats
    4 Prismatic Vista
    2 Scrubland
    3 Plains
    3 Swamp
    3 Wasteland
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 Karakas
    1 Hall of Heliod's Generosity


    Thoughtseize + StP + Ending + Curse + Hymn should give you the crucial early game interaction against fast strategies. Don't play Dark Ritual into a metagame of so much fair blue. Just play cheap interaction.

    Sideboard has room for meta-specific tutorable silver bullets and generic good cards. RiP+Helm combo is an option but doesn't work with your Squee effects. You could cut those & add combo, or stick to the Squee plan.

    Note that lategame you can combo Solitary Confinement + Hall of Heliod's Generosity (upkeep sacrifice, put on top of library, draw & cast Confinement). With 6 lands that sustains the lock except for instant speed burn. It also prevents decking or discarding.

    If you know there's Burn and UR Delver, you may even want 1 Warmth or 1 Circle of Protection: Red in the SB.

  6. #6

    Re: Discard Monarch

    Thanks for all of the replies!

    This will be my second time going to the shop for this event. I took Dredge last time and went 2-1, losing in the last round to UR Delver (bad opening hands despite mulligans + a misplay in each game :/ ). My two oldest sons played in the event as well. My youngest didn't do very well, so I want to give him a stronger deck this time.

    Concerning budget, the tournament allows for 15 proxies per deck. I could probably have the three of us run Madness, Dredge, and Doomsday with my collection + 15 proxies each, but I wanted to try to brew something for me to play for fun. The entry fee is only $3, and the top 4 split the pot in store credit, so it is not a big deal if I go 0-3 (though I certainly would like to win some games).

    The meta seems pretty stable on the decks I listed, and my sons and I make up a significant proportion of the local meta if we all go. :D

    Thanks for your list, FTW. What do you think about Master of Death? It has Surveil 2 and is a 3/1 body, so it is not bad to play out to the board. The life loss will add up over a long game if I reply on it, which is where Squee came into the picture. While most of the spells are BW, I think dipping into U to play it to the board is probably worth it. It would also be okay if I add in things like Estrid's Invocation (see the end of this post).

    I really like Exile into Darkness.

    Reeplcheep, concerning these cards:
    Island Sanctuary
    Rest In Peace
    Energy Field
    Ensnaring Bridge
    City in a Bottle
    Orim’s Chant
    Moat

    What is City in a Bottle for? Is that the right card name?

    Rest in Peace + Energy Field + Monarch seems pretty good, so I will look into that more.

    Ensnaring Bridge and Island Sanctuary are probably good additions as well.

    I am not sure about Orim's Chant, as that would require me to have 2 additional mana when I play out a Court. I feel like Kami of False Hope might be better than that. If I have one in play, then drop a Court of Grace, I should be able to get an angel on my turn, which can help me keep the Monarch.

    Moat is another 4 mana enchantment, and I don't want to run too many of those.

    I just realized that Estrid's Invocation could work well with this idea. It would allow me to regain the Monarch if taken.

    Question: If I had a Court of Grace and Estrid's Invocation in play and did not have the monarch, and I put the Court trigger on the stack and then Estrid blinks and gives me back the monarch, I would make as Angel from the Court instead of a soldier, correct? If so, having 1x of this type of effect can help me get the better Court triggers each turn.

    I'll post some updates later about a list. Thanks again!

  7. #7
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    Re: Discard Monarch

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoshim View Post
    Thanks for your list, FTW. What do you think about Master of Death? It has Surveil 2 and is a 3/1 body, so it is not bad to play out to the board. The life loss will add up over a long game if I reply on it, which is where Squee came into the picture. While most of the spells are BW, I think dipping into U to play it to the board is probably worth it. It would also be okay if I add in things like Estrid's Invocation (see the end of this post).
    Ah, without seeing the manabase I thought you were WB and could not cast Master of Death. Then Master is a bad Squee, costing life while the deck lacks ways to gain back life, so it did not look good to me. Master gets better if you have blue mana to cast it. Kaya, Orzhov Usurper is a strong card and helps gain back life.

    Blue opens up tech like Estrid's Invocation, card draw and casting Master. You could go even heavier into blue for cantrips and counters. You might even want an 80-card Yorion, Sky Nomad build. Reeplcheep's Bumbleberry Pie deck is a good shell for UWB enchantment-based control. Blue opens many design options.

    I assumed 2 color. 2 color has mana stability advantages vs enemy mana denial decks. It's also much easier on the paper budget!

    I would not play Island Sanctuary since it does not stop Delver of Secrets, Dragon's Rage Channeler, Murktide Regent, Marit Lage, and other popular flyers. Too many threats can get through even if you skip the draw. Ensnaring Bridge could be strong with Liliana. Otherwise Confinement + Humility should handle creatures well. Humility stopping abilities is something that the other fog effects can't do.

  8. #8

    Re: Discard Monarch

    Yes, sorry, I should have been more clear. I enjoy having a more stable manabase, and it is easier on my collection to run 1 or 2 colors. I'll check out the Bumbleberry pie list. I don't know if I can stretch to an 80 card build with Yorion.

    I could keep it in black more if I use Asylum Visitor. It functions somewhat similarly to Master of Death regarding life loss and the ability to sustain an active Solitary Confinement.

  9. #9

    Re: Discard Monarch

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoshim View Post
    Question: If I had a Court of Grace and Estrid's Invocation in play and did not have the monarch, and I put the Court trigger on the stack and then Estrid blinks and gives me back the monarch, I would make as Angel from the Court instead of a soldier, correct? If so, having 1x of this type of effect can help me get the better Court triggers each turn.
    Yes this works.

    City in a bottle should actually be Bottled Cloister. It lets you use ensnaring bridge even if monarch gives you cards in hand.

  10. #10

    Re: Discard Monarch

    I plan to look into your suggestions a little more and develop lists based on them, but I found Cryptbreaker, Collective Brutality, and Lochmere Serpent, which work well with Squee and Master of Death. I don't think I can put the following together in time for the tournament, but I have liked it in the limited goldfishing I have done.

    Disruption
    4 Collective Brutality
    2 Fracture
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Vanishing Verse

    2 Hymn to Tourach
    3 Liliana of the Veil

    Combo
    3 Court of Ambition
    3 Solitary Confinement
    2 Enlightened Tutor

    4 Cryptbreaker

    4 Master of Death
    1 Lochmere Serpent
    4 Squee, Goblin Nabob

    Lands
    2 Flooded Strand
    4 Marsh Flats
    2 Polluted Delta
    4 Prismatic Vista
    1 Hall of Heliod's Generosity
    1 Karakas
    2 Scrubland
    3 Swamp
    3 Plains
    1 Island
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

  11. #11

    Re: Discard Monarch

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoshim View Post
    I plan to look into your suggestions a little more and develop lists based on them, but I found Cryptbreaker, Collective Brutality, and Lochmere Serpent, which work well with Squee and Master of Death. I don't think I can put the following together in time for the tournament, but I have liked it in the limited goldfishing I have done.

    Disruption
    4 Collective Brutality
    2 Fracture
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Vanishing Verse

    2 Hymn to Tourach
    3 Liliana of the Veil

    Combo
    3 Court of Ambition
    3 Solitary Confinement
    2 Enlightened Tutor

    4 Cryptbreaker

    4 Master of Death
    1 Lochmere Serpent
    4 Squee, Goblin Nabob

    Lands
    2 Flooded Strand
    4 Marsh Flats
    2 Polluted Delta
    4 Prismatic Vista
    1 Hall of Heliod's Generosity
    1 Karakas
    2 Scrubland
    3 Swamp
    3 Plains
    1 Island
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    How many times have you goldfished this?
    On paper 8 Squees seems like way too many as you never want to see a 2nd one.
    I would try to not play creatures at all to blank removal from your opponents.

    In general you seem to fall into the trap of only considering cards if you have the other pieces.
    This is dangerous as this wont always be the case.
    Consider Cryptbreaker. Pretty cute with a Squee but pretty meh without one. Has a big bullseye on its head as you barely play any creatures.
    In the same way a Squee sucks if you don't have a good discard outlet and the 2nd one will hurt you hard as this deck can't really afford to draw blanks.

  12. #12

    Re: Discard Monarch

    Okay, so modifying based on Reeplcheep's and FTW's suggestions from yesterday.

    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Duress

    4 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Gerrard’s Verdict

    2 Vanishing Verse
    1 Fracture
    1 Sudden Edict

    1 Cling to Dust

    1 Necrogen Mists
    4 Liliana of the Veil

    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    4 Solitary Confinement

    2 Court of Ambition
    1 Court of Grace
    2 Enlightened Tutor

    1 Grim Reminder
    2 Squee, Goblin Nabob

    2 Hall of Heliod’s Generosity
    4 Marsh Flats
    2 Scrubland
    4 Prismatic Vista
    4 Plains
    6 Swamp
    1 Karakas
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    Zoid, Cryptbreaker is a target, which is a problem. However, having 2x Squee effects is fine with Collective Brutality. Additionally, Master of Death can be cast for a fair amount of value, so that reduces the number of "dead" Squee effects. I played a fair number of hands out with that list.

    Here is a UWb list following Reeplcheep's comments about Careful Study:

    Instants and Sorceries (20)
    4x Swords to Plowshares
    2x Prismatic Ending

    4x Careful Study
    4x Faithful Mending

    2x Force of Negation
    4x Force of Will

    Enchantment (8)
    4x Court of Grace
    4x Solitary Confinement

    Creature (8)
    2x Lochmere Serpent
    4x Master of Death
    2x Squee, Goblin Nabob

    Land (24)
    4x Flooded Strand
    3x Island
    2x Marsh Flats
    4x Plains
    3x Polluted Delta
    4x Prismatic Vista
    1x Swamp
    2x Hall of Heliod’s Generosity
    1x Karakas
    Last edited by Whoshim; 05-04-2022 at 02:30 AM.

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