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Thread: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

  1. #21
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    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    I think it was mentioned before but what is your goal? If you’re going to stick with legacy and eventually try to be competitive then Ux is probably the best place to start since it will have you getting staples. If it’s for the funzies I may just do the classic necropotence deck. Aggro black was always fun to play. And if you really want to play budget fun I always enjoyed “balancing tings”
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  2. #22

    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    If you’re not stuck on delver and want a more mainstream deck, have a look at Eldrazi aggro or cloudpost style decks. They product speedy mana which power out gnarly aggressive critters. Here’s a few links:

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetyp...zi-aggro#paper

    The cloudpost idea uses a similar list but has glimmervoid and cloudpost as the mana accelerators. I guess you could even use urza lands. Anyway, good luck with it and have fun.

  3. #23
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    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by VlaeKD View Post
    If you were me, what archetype would you play ? Even if there is not banned cards in it? I don't wanna stay with an idea who just canot work without expensive cards and being delusional.

    Just keeping a correct, fun and versatile deck with 200% budget and no ban :)
    In your shoes, I'd start with UW control.

    You've said:
    • no broken combos (unfun for friends)
    • don't want to accelerate a big threat on turn 2 or end the game too quickly (unfun for friends)
    • you enjoy lots of spells and few monsters
    • for casual play group of friends (not people playing $1000 Competitive Legacy decks)
    • could be 1v1 or multiplayer


    Then I think Blue-White control is flexible enough to adapt and compete in both environments. It also allows more long interactive games, which should be more fun for a casual group.

    There are a lot of ways to build it. Instead of Spirits, I would build around spells.

    UltraBudget UW Control - Rough Shell

    //Mana: 24
    8 Island
    4 Plains
    2 Prairie Stream
    2 Glacial Fortress
    4 Ash Barrens
    4 Sol Ring

    //Spells: 24
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Counterspell
    4 Accumulated Knowledge
    2 Council's Judgment
    4 Day of Judgment
    2 Dig Through Time

    //Threats: 5
    3 Timeless Dragon
    2 Shark Typhoon

    =53 cards

    That should give you stable mana, card draw, and a good mix of answers. Without spending much $$. Most are staples. Some scale well to multiplayer too.

    There's still room for 7 more cards. For those it depends on what you want to do with the deck. Personally I would use those slots on more counters, more card draw, and planeswalkers. Here's a list of some cards to consider. Some take advantage of Sol Ring mana, while others work without it. Some are budget, some cost more.
    Rune Snag
    Exclude
    Force of Negation
    Cryptic Command
    Preordain
    Search for Azcanta
    Snapcaster Mage
    Augur of Bolas
    Malevolent Hermit
    Court of Grace
    Fact or Fiction
    Sphinx's Revelation
    Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
    Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    Teferi, Time Raveler
    The Wandering Emperor
    Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    Back to Basics
    Humility
    Aura of Silence
    March of Otherworldly Light

    Some mix of those cards could fill in the rest.

    You could also upgrade
    Day of Judgment -> Supreme Verdict (slightly less good with Sol Ring, but better against blue counters)
    Prairie Stream -> Hallowed Fountain (probably not worth the money for you)
    Accumulated Knowledge -> some other draw engine (Accumulated Knowledge is not amazing, but it's low-budget and instant speed and can pull you ahead in cards)

    Does that look like a play style you would enjoy? Or would you prefer something more based around creatures like the Spirit or Faerie decks?

  4. #24

    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    UW Control is exactly what I was going to suggest as well.
    In addition to all the cards @FTW already listed, you could also run some number of

    Skycloud Expanse
    Celestial Colonnade

    Wing Shards
    Farm // Market

    Mission Briefing
    Scour All Possibilities

    Iymrith, Desert Doom
    Dragonlord Ojutai
    Baneslayer Angel
    Luminarch Aspirant
    Dovin Baan


    Basically you want some cards that kill the opponent's creatures one-for-one (Swords to Plowshares), some that kill all creatures (including you own! - Day of Judgment), some that let you find cards that you need at the moment (Preordain), some that make you draw more than one card to have more resources than the opponent (Frantic Inventory, Sphinx's Revelation), and some things to kill your opponent with, usually creatures (Baneslayer Angel) or planeswalkers (Gideon, Ally of Zendikar). Some of the cards meet more than one of these criteria (e.g. Jace, the Mind Sculptor or Dragonlord Ojutai both draws cards and is a kill condition).

    It is also fairly important that your lands do not enter the battlefield tapped - there's nothing worse that needing the fourth mana for Day of Judgment and drawing Azorius Chancery.

    EDIT: Two more - Wall of Omens is nice to hold off smaller creatures and buy you time, and you don't have to feel bad for sweeping it away with Day of Judgment. Plumeveil can often kill something out of nowhere and then also slows down your opponent/makes them deploy too many creatures into your sweeper.
    Last edited by snugar_i; 06-29-2022 at 03:18 AM.

  5. #25
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    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    Agree on Celestial Colonnade. I didn't realize how much cheaper those have become. When UW was big in Modern, they were over $20 a piece. Now they are budget-friendly. 2-3 copies seems fine. It's a dual land that doubles as a win condition that survives Day of Judgment.

    In addition to what snugar_i said about strategy, if you are playing Counterspell then you prioritize effects that can be played at instant speed. That way you can always leave up blue mana during opponent's turn (in case you need to counter or to bluff you have it) but still do stuff if you don't counter anything. "Instant speed" effects can be Instant cards, but also anything with Flash, Cycling, or activated abilities. You can always wait to do those until the end of opponent's turn, to give you the most information and strategic advantage. With cards like Shark Typhoon and Sphinx's Revelation, you can leave all your mana untapped in case you need to cast counters, but at end of opponent's turn you can also dump all your mana into X for a big effect.
    Edit: Teferi, Hero of Dominaria is cool because you can tap out for a planeswalker, but then use the +1 to untap 2 lands for Counterspell! And it draws you extra cards quickly.

  6. #26

    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    Didn't go deep into your lists yet but as you resumed totally my mindset, i'll follow both of you and try that one as my first deck.

    I saw you put some classic Island.
    As i mentionned i got 2x Otawata city-land home, is that a choice to consider for long game or will it be just a synergy loss with Asg Barrens?

    BIG EDIT: So taking your 53cards and adding : 3x Ojutai Dragonlord, 2x Celestial colonade (or replacing islands by it?) , 2x Phoenix Revelation and 2/3x Wall of Omens if vs aggro decks?

    Or would you do something different ?

    Excited to look at that deeply :)

  7. #27

    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    I allow myself to post under my own post to share with you the list i made.
    Cards on 'bench' are cards that i already get.

    Feel free to share your reviews, hope i followed well your instructions!

    [deck="UW Control"]



    //Main
    4 Ash Barrens
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Council's Judgment
    4 Counterspell
    4 Day of Judgment
    2 Dig Through Time
    3 Dragonlord Ojutai
    2 Gitaxian Probe
    2 Glacial Fortress
    8 Island
    4 Plains
    2 Ponder
    2 Prairie Stream
    2 Preordain
    2 Shark Typhoon
    4 Sol Ring
    2 Sphinx's Revelation
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Timeless Dragon

    //Sideboard
    SB: 2 Baneslayer Angel
    SB: 4 Daze
    SB: 2 Gitaxian Probe
    SB: 2 Otawara, Soaring City
    SB: 2 Ponder
    SB: 2 Skycloud Expanse
    SB: 2 Wall of Omens


  8. #28
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    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by VlaeKD View Post
    Didn't go deep into your lists yet but as you resumed totally my mindset, i'll follow both of you and try that one as my first deck.

    I saw you put some classic Island.
    As i mentionned i got 2x Otawata city-land home, is that a choice to consider for long game or will it be just a synergy loss with Asg Barrens?

    BIG EDIT: So taking your 53cards and adding : 3x Ojutai Dragonlord, 2x Celestial colonade (or replacing islands by it?) , 2x Phoenix Revelation and 2/3x Wall of Omens if vs aggro decks?

    Or would you do something different ?

    Excited to look at that deeply :)
    Classic Island is a very strong card. It enters the battlefield untapped, costs 0 life, and doesn't lose to things like Blood Moon or Back to Basics. You could even play your own Back to Basics if opponents have many nonbasics in their decks.

    You could replace 2 Glacial Fortress with 2 Celestial Colonnade. You don't want too many lands that enter tapped., but Colonnade is a good alternate win condition. Celestial Colonnade is funny - it can attack through Back to Basics!! (vigilance)

    You could replace 1 Island with 1 Otawara. I don't know about the 2nd copy. They are Legendary and it costs many mana to use.

    Cards like Daze and Gitaxian Probe are not good in control. They are better in fast tempo decks like UR Delver.

    Dragonlord Ojutai is fun, but 3 copies is a lot for an expensive legendary creature. 1-2 copies should be fine. It's easier to play multiples of Timeless Dragon and Shark Typhoon because they can cycle as a back-up plan (when you don't have enough mana or don't want a creature).

    I recommend making room for 1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria. He does not look like a big monster, but he takes over the game very quickly.

  9. #29

    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Classic Island is a very strong card. It enters the battlefield untapped, costs 0 life, and doesn't lose to things like Blood Moon or Back to Basics. You could even play your own Back to Basics if opponents have many nonbasics in their decks.

    You could replace 2 Glacial Fortress with 2 Celestial Colonnade. You don't want too many lands that enter tapped., but Colonnade is a good alternate win condition. Celestial Colonnade is funny - it can attack through Back to Basics!! (vigilance)

    You could replace 1 Island with 1 Otawara. I don't know about the 2nd copy. They are Legendary and it costs many mana to use.

    Cards like Daze and Gitaxian Probe are not good in control. They are better in fast tempo decks like UR Delver.

    Dragonlord Ojutai is fun, but 3 copies is a lot for an expensive legendary creature. 1-2 copies should be fine. It's easier to play multiples of Timeless Dragon and Shark Typhoon because they can cycle as a back-up plan (when you don't have enough mana or don't want a creature).

    I recommend making room for 1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria. He does not look like a big monster, but he takes over the game very quickly.


    So replace Glacial Forteress with Celestial Colonnade, got it.
    Adding some basic lands to keep high % of lands so?

    Removing Probes with what in your opinion?
    Removing a Ojutai for what too?
    I'll take a look at the Planewalker but never saw one during one of our game..

    I don't know if i got enough land, enough draw or enough control spell kek

  10. #30

    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    I would remove Prairie Stream for Colonnade instead of Fortress. Also remove Ash Barrens for Hengegate Pathway and drop Brainstorm for more Ponders and Preordains since you don't have enough shuffling to make Brainstorm good.

    I would cut Sphinx's Revelation for Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, Fact or Fiction, or Memory Deluge. My personal preference is for Fact or Fiction since its just a really fun card to play with.

    Instead of Dragonlord Ojutai if you want a big creature look at Dream Trawler. Either way only play 1-2.

    If your opponents play a lot of draw spells I would look at Narset, Parter of Veils.

    If your opponents play a lot of instants and counters I would look at Teferi, Time Raveler.

    You could also try to make some room for Spell Snare and Spell Pierce.

    Three Timeless Dragon is kind of a lot. I would go down to 1-2.

    This would be my list (can't comment on sideboard because I don't know what you're playing against):

    2 Fact or Fiction
    2 Dig Through Time
    4 Ponder
    4 Preordain

    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Council's Judgment
    4 Day of Judgment
    2 Prismatic Ending

    4 Counterspell
    2 Spell Snare

    1 Dream Trawler
    2 Shark Typhoon
    1 Timeless Dragon
    1 Narset, Parter of Veils
    1 Teferi, Time Raveler

    4 Glacial Fortress
    4 Hengegate Pathway
    2 Celestial Collonade
    1 Hall of Storm Giants
    5 Island
    4 Plains
    4 Sol Ring

  11. #31
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    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    I would remove Prairie Stream for Colonnade instead of Fortress.
    Prairie Stream is to have an Island-Plains searchable by Timeless Dragon so Dragon can fix blue mana. At least 1 copy seems good. The other budget Island-Plains enter tapped. Untapped Prairie Stream seemed better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    Three Timeless Dragon is kind of a lot. I would go down to 1-2.
    3 Dragon makes more sense with Prairie Stream. Then Dragon can fix for either color and there are 6 targets. 3 is too many for 4 Plains.

    There's also a strong synergy with Sol Ring.
    T1 land -> Sol Ring -> cycle Dragon for 2nd land
    T2 land Eternalize 4/4 Dragon!!

    Lategame it's a good mana sink for Sol Ring, casting both the 5/5 and 4/4 without tapping out many lands. It's a way to sneak in Sol Ring payoffs without playing cards that are bad without Sol Ring.
    Sol Ring is what pushed me to the 3rd copy. Then the Island-Plains adds value so Dragon doesn't just flood on white mana.


    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    Also remove Ash Barrens for Hengegate Pathway and drop Brainstorm for more Ponders and Preordains since you don't have enough shuffling to make Brainstorm good.
    Ash Barrens has modes beyond fixing colors though: Delve fuel, shuffle for Brainstorm, helps Prairie Stream/Glacial Fortress enter untapped, and avoids nonbasic hate. Ash Barrens + Timeless Dragon = 7 non-spell shuffles for Brainstorm. I thought that might be enough to risk Brainstorm, but it was the slot I was least sure of without testing. Preordain is safer. If you cut Ash Barrens, definitely replace Brainstorm with Preordains then Ponder.

    Basically the cards you singled out - Timeless Dragon, Prairie Stream, Ash Barrens, Brainstorm - have synergy and work together. The way I had it set up should work. If you cut some, the others get worse too.

    You could end up with a completely different manabase and cantrip shell that still works too. The big advantage of the one I posted is that you can run Back to Basics while ignoring enemy nonbasic hate (and vigilant Colonnade can attack through your own B2B lol). That may or may not matter in their meta. If nonbasic hate is not played in their meta and Brainstorm is cut, then any other combination of duals is fine too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    I would cut Sphinx's Revelation for Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, Fact or Fiction, or Memory Deluge. My personal preference is for Fact or Fiction since its just a really fun card to play with.
    Dig is good, maybe just 2 copies without fetchlands. After that I prefer Fact or Fiction too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    You could also try to make some room for Spell Snare and Spell Pierce.
    Spell Pierce is weak in control. An Offer You Can't Refuse might be better. Or maybe Dovin's Veto? The 2-mana counters are easier to support if you play instant speed card draw instead of sorcery speed Ponders.

    Spell Snare is only good in some metas that revolve around important 2 mana cards (Goyf + CB + Survival meta). In a casual group, it's bad too often. I'd try Mental Misstep before Spell Snare, but even Misstep is probably Sideboard material.

    I wouldn't play Prismatic Ending for the same reason. You don't know their curves. If it's midrangey stuff and multiplayer decks, Prismatic for 2 won't answer enough. March of Otherworldly Light seems more flexible.
    Last edited by FTW; 06-30-2022 at 01:51 AM.

  12. #32
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    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by VlaeKD View Post
    So replace Glacial Forteress with Celestial Colonnade, got it.
    Adding some basic lands to keep high % of lands so?

    Removing Probes with what in your opinion?
    Removing a Ojutai for what too?
    I'll take a look at the Planewalker but never saw one during one of our game..

    I don't know if i got enough land, enough draw or enough control spell kek
    20 lands should be enough if you also have 4 Sol Ring, Timeless Dragons, and blue draw spells like Brainstorm/Preordain. Those cards help you find the right lands on time.

    I prefer a lot of basic lands so that opponents can't attack your mana as easily. There are a lot of cards that attack nonbasic lands. Blood Moon, Ruination, Back to Basics, Wasteland, Field of Ruin, Tectonic Edge, Magus of the Moon. I don't know what your friends like to play. Maybe they don't play cards like that. Playing basics vs nonbasics really depends on what your friends play.

    Remove Probes and extra Ojutai for more draw (Preordain) and control spell (Cryptic Command or Dovin's Veto or March of Otherworldly Light).

  13. #33

    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    Hengegate Pathway
    That one is unfortunately not that cheap anymore (and even more expensive in Europe, not sure where OP lives).

    Anyway, the exact composition of the deck does not matter that much. Just throw something together, play some games and see what you like and what you don't. Then we can help you tweak the deck based on that.

    And one last note on playstyle: Control decks must be patient. Do not waste your kill spells and counterspells on the first things your opponent throws at you, because they might follow up with scarier stuff which you won't have any answers left for. Use your life total as a resource, losing some life at the beginning of the game is fine (just don't lose too much :-) ) It's usually better to (for example) wait for the opponent to play out 3 creatures, then killing them all with a Day of Judgment than Swords to Plowsharesing the first 2, then having to use Day of Judgment on the third one - in the first example, you still killed all 3 creatures, but you have two Swords left for their next plays.

  14. #34
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    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by snugar_i View Post
    And one last note on playstyle: Control decks must be patient. Do not waste your kill spells and counterspells on the first things your opponent throws at you, because they might follow up with scarier stuff which you won't have any answers left for. Use your life total as a resource, losing some life at the beginning of the game is fine (just don't lose too much :-) ) It's usually better to (for example) wait for the opponent to play out 3 creatures, then killing them all with a Day of Judgment than Swords to Plowsharesing the first 2, then having to use Day of Judgment on the third one - in the first example, you still killed all 3 creatures, but you have two Swords left for their next plays.
    This is a good strategy point.

    Cards like Wall of Omens, Plumeveil, Augur of Bolas, Edifice of Authority can force the opponent to commit multiple creatures to the battlefield so you can clean up more with Day of Judgment!

  15. #35

    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    @FTW I missed that Prairie Stream had basic land types so the way you set it up also makes sense. I suggested Spell Pierce because sometimes you need to sneak in double spells but Dovin's Veto may be better. I wouldn't play An Offer You Can't Refuse in a casual setting people tend to be able to use that mana a lot better than in Legacy where everything is super efficient. I like Spell Snare because people tend to play two drops and its the only way to counter those on the draw without pitch-counters. Ultimately, it obviously depends on what OP is playing against.

    @snugar_i I didn't make the list to suggest he play the exact list just giving it for comparison's sake. The most fun part of casual magic (at least for me) is the brewing! Sitting at home brewing jank/semi-jank with my friends is peak Magic IMO.

    One last suggestion is considering cards like Mazemind Tome because its a good sink for Sol Ring and it can basically take over the game in longer matchups.

  16. #36

    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    Hi guys.
    Coming back for some reviews.

    First of all, thanks to all of you.

    I had fun with the deck, and did a 15w - 3l over the week end.
    Even if at the end, they went for some counters to the deck.

    I will surely ask you for some ideas again, with the exact same thought (100$) but with others colors/types of decks.

    Thanks again for your help and kindness!!

  17. #37

    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    Glad it worked out well!
    Were your opponents OK with the Sol Rings? It's a ridiculously busted card, but not very splashy, so maybe they didn't hate it as much as they should :-)
    What type of deck would you like next time?

    Something aggressive? (Dump your hand of small creatures and beat your opponent to death before they can defend)
    Combo (it doesn't have to be a 1-turn kill, there are also "combos" like Reanimator, SneakShow and others)?
    Midrange? (Lots of 2-for-1's basically - Hymn to Tourach, Flametongue Kavu etc.)
    Prison? (Nobody gets to play Magic, but your deck is better prepared for that - cards like Blood Moon, Trinisphere, Smokestack etc.)

  18. #38

    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by snugar_i View Post
    Glad it worked out well!
    Were your opponents OK with the Sol Rings? It's a ridiculously busted card, but not very splashy, so maybe they didn't hate it as much as they should :-)
    What type of deck would you like next time?

    Something aggressive? (Dump your hand of small creatures and beat your opponent to death before they can defend)
    Combo (it doesn't have to be a 1-turn kill, there are also "combos" like Reanimator, SneakShow and others)?
    Midrange? (Lots of 2-for-1's basically - Hymn to Tourach, Flametongue Kavu etc.)
    Prison? (Nobody gets to play Magic, but your deck is better prepared for that - cards like Blood Moon, Trinisphere, Smokestack etc.)


    Well, it appears that they knew the card, and that they got it in some of their decks, so it was smooth!
    They flamed " Day of judgement and Counterspell most of all.


    I told them i'll try to do some cool features with creatures and combos.
    Thought about a duocolor with blue/white to keep playing some strong cards and avoid paying another deck from scratch.
    But i'm open for ideas under 100$ :)

  19. #39
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    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by VlaeKD View Post
    I had fun with the deck, and did a 15w - 3l over the week end.
    Even if at the end, they went for some counters to the deck.
    Great result! Glad you had fun and that the deck worked well for you.

    In casual 15w - 3l is even better than 18w. If you just win every game they'll stop playing with you or ban your cards. If they can win some, it shows the deck is not too unfair. I think it's also more fun to lose to control than fast combo, because at least they get to play a long interactive game of Magic.

    What other deck styles are you looking for? Monoblack Reanimator can be built on a budget. With Sol Ring you get the back-up plan of casting the big creature.

    If you want to stay in Blue White, you could try a creature deck like Spirits. That would give some variety from the controlling spells like Day of Judgment and Counterspell.

  20. #40
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    Re: First legacy deck - Izzet Delver budget, need reviews

    Budget UW Spirits deck. Using some of the same cards.


    //Spells: 12
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    //you have these already, right?

    //Spirit Creatures: 27
    4 Mausoleum Wanderer
    4 Ascendant Spirit
    4 Rattlechains
    4 Supreme Phantom
    2 Selfless Spirit
    4 Drogskol Captain
    4 Spell Queller
    1 Skyclave Apparition

    //Lands: 21
    4 Ash Barrens
    4 Evolving Wilds
    7 Snow-Covered Island
    3 Snow-Covered Plains
    1 Otawara, Soaring City
    1 Moorland Haunt

    //Sideboard: 15
    2 Council's Judgment
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    3 Lofty Denial
    1 Selfless Spirit
    1 Celestial Kirin
    2 Dungeon Geists
    2 Empyrean Eagle
    2 Forbidding Spirit


    Most of the creatures are cheap. Mausoleum Wanderer is the most expensive card. It also does a lot - attacking for fast damage, countering removal spells and combos. If it's out of your budget, you could cut it and run something like Empyrean Eagle, Unsettled Mariner, more Skyclave Apparition, or Lofty Denial instead.

    I went with a snow basic manabase so you can get the most value out of Ascendant Spirit. The lands work well with Brainstorm and Daze too (if you already bought those).

    Sideboard will depend on what kinds of decks your friends play. I guessed and gave a mix of useful tools.

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