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Thread: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

  1. #321

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post

    Total = 38 pt --- and hopefully an achievement for fastest goldfish submitted so far? ;-)
    I think T6 is going to be really hard to beat, that should easily top the whole season.

  2. #322

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Mechanized Production, Naked Singularity, Pemmin's Aura

    dte (TO) dark depths, contested war zone, city of brass, veldt
    Illegal deck, LL

    FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Pact of the Titan Biorhythm
    I can't make a creature or stop you, LL

    Reeplcheep Imperial Mask, Fountain of Cho, Sustaining Spirit, Blackblade Reforged
    You are slower than me, WW

    Asthereal Island of Wak-Wak, Mishra's workshop, Barbed Wire, Leviathan
    Barbed Wire is too fast for me, LL

    Wrath of Pie Mana Confluence, Mage-Ring Network, Rusting Golem, Hidetsugu's Second Rite
    Pemmin's Aura is too much for your Golem, WW

    BirdsOfParadise Desecration Elemental, Eureka, Havenwood Battleground, Teferi's Isle
    Pemmin's Aura kills your Elemental, WW

    silkster Dwarven Hold, Wild Evocation, Rivalry, Sorrow's Path
    If you play Wild Evocation, you lose to Rivalry. If you don't, I win. WW

    jfb1337 Icatian Store Test of Endurance Archangel's Light Codex Shredder
    You are slower than me, WW

    Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance
    You are faster than me, even though I can kill a goat. LL

    Symbi]Deck Drain Life, Brass's Bounty, Mercadian Bazzar, Reito Lantern
    You are slower than me, WW

    GoblinSmashmaster Volrath's Stronghold, Molten Slagheap, Goblin Commando, Aetherflux Reservoir
    You are slower than me, WW

    FTW Mercadian Bazaar, Wild Evocation, Elturel Survivors, Gravitational Shift
    Pemmin's Aura kills your Survivors, but Wild Evocation means I can't pay my cumulative upkeep. DD

    14W 2D 8L = 26

    I came up with several great decks, but they all unfortunately were too bad to beat the sample decks this week, so I chose a not great list. I knew Pemmin's Aura was too good going into this, but Teferi's Imp having phasing meant that several better options didn't work, and I though people would play fliers to counter Island of Wak-Wak, so I skipped over it.

  3. #323

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    [incorrect]Rooster, I compute your GT as 270. Just FYI. One of us must be making a mistake. This doesn’t affect my match with you, but it still would affect you if my math is right.

    RoosterCocoa must pay:

    Cumulative upkeep 3 over 7 turns (triangular number of 7 x 3 = 28 x 3 = 84)

    Cumulative upkeep 3 over 6 turns (tri number of 6 x 3 = 21 x 3 = 63)

    Cumulative upkeep 3 over 5 turns (45)

    Cumulative upkeep 3 over 4 turns (30)

    Cumulative upkeep 3 over 3 turns (18)

    Cumulative upkeep 3 over 2 turns (9)

    Cumulative upkeep 3 once (3)

    Cost of Naked Singularity (5)

    Cost of Mechanized Production (4)

    Total (261)

    Sand Silos untaps ready to make 261 mana on turn 263. Then it takes 7 upkeeps to win. Victory on upkeep of turn 270.[/incorrect]

    Never mind, I forgot about correctly stacking triggers on seventh turn of cumulative upkeeps. 186 it is.
    Last edited by BirdsOfParadise; 09-07-2022 at 11:44 AM.

  4. #324

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    Rooster, I compute your GT as 270. Just FYI. One of us must be making a mistake. This doesn’t affect my match with you, but it still would affect you if my math is right.

    RoosterCocoa must pay:

    Cumulative upkeep 3 over 7 turns (triangular number of 7 x 3 = 28 x 3 = 84)

    Cumulative upkeep 3 over 6 turns (tri number of 6 x 3 = 21 x 3 = 63)

    Cumulative upkeep 3 over 5 turns (45)

    Cumulative upkeep 3 over 4 turns (30)

    Cumulative upkeep 3 over 3 turns (18)

    Cumulative upkeep 3 over 2 turns (9)

    Cumulative upkeep 3 once (3)

    Cost of Naked Singularity (5)

    Cost of Mechanized Production (4)

    Total (261)

    Sand Silos untaps ready to make 261 mana on turn 263. Then it takes 7 upkeeps to win. Victory on upkeep of turn 270.
    Rooster can stack the triggers to avoid having to pay cumulative upkeep on the last turn. This means the 84 mana from paying cumulative upkeep over seven turns can be removed from the calculation, and 270 - 84 = 186.

  5. #325
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Asthereal's scores for round 4:

    dte (TO) dark depths, contested war zone, city of brass, veldt (illegal)
    FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Pact of the Titan Biorhythm WW (0)
    Reeplcheep Imperial Mask, Fountain of Cho, Sustaining Spirit, Blackblade Reforged WW (0)
    That is a spectacularly slow clock. Well done.
    (Asthereal Island of Wak-Wak, Mishra's workshop, Barbed Wire, Leviathan <-me)
    Wrath of Pie Mana Confluence, Mage-Ring Network, Rusting Golem, Hidetsugu's Second Rite LL (6)
    You only have to make the golem if I make the wire. But if I don't make anything I just die to your stuff. Even timing wire doesn't change anything.
    RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Mechanized Production, Naked Singularity, Pemmin's Aura WW (0)
    Even slower. Okay then.
    BirdsOfParadise Desecration Elemental, Eureka, Havenwood Battleground, Teferi's Isle DD (2)
    I have to keep back my spell so I can kill your guy, but you can also wait before making the guy. So we stare.
    silkster Dwarven Hold, Wild Evocation, Rivalry, Sorrow's Path LL (0)
    This deck can't even win against me.
    jfb1337 Icatian Store Test of Endurance Archangel's Light Codex Shredder LL (0)
    Also very slow. Your only way to get a card in the grave for Light is to first cast Light for nothing, then use Shredder and only THEN cast Light for life points. That does not happen before Wire kills you.
    Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance WW (6)
    All you need to do to beat me is gain 1 life before Wire kills you by turn 21. You have plenty of time to do that and from there activate your wincon, which I can't stop.
    Symbi]Deck Drain Life, Brass's Bounty, Mercadian Bazzar, Reito Lantern WW (0)
    This is actually quite close. I think OTD I kill you the turn before you get to gain one life point and murder me.
    GoblinSmashmaster Volrath's Stronghold, Molten Slagheap, Goblin Commando, Aetherflux Reservoir LL (6)
    You only need 9 mana to gain the 1 life point you need to not die to Wire, so you can easily make that. I can't stop your wincon.
    FTW Mercadian Bazaar, Wild Evocation, Elturel Survivors, Gravitational Shift DD (2)
    I cannot do nothing if you make the Evocation. But if you do, you are forced to drop your Shift and your guy does no damage anymore. Interesting tech, this. You have Evocation but can't use it as it'd kill you. So despite Evocation we still end up staring and doing nothing. Took me a while to figure this one out on my own. :)

    Total: 22 points.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  6. #326

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by Symbi View Post
    Rooster can stack the triggers to avoid having to pay cumulative upkeep on the last turn. This means the 84 mana from paying cumulative upkeep over seven turns can be removed from the calculation, and 270 - 84 = 186.
    I see, that makes sense.

  7. #327
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    And round is over!

    I am happy to see that the draws are now a minority, despite FTW's best efforts.

    4,7 Silkster
    3,5 BirdsOfParadise
    3,5 jfb1337
    3,5 Symbi
    3,3 Reeplcheep
    3,1 GoblinSmashmaster
    2,9 Wrath of Pie
    2,4 FourDogsinaHorseSuit
    2,0 Asthereal
    1,8 RoosterCocoa
    1,8 FTW
    1,3 alphastryk

    Overall on the season:
    1. Silkster 15,7
    2. BirdsOfParadise 14,4
    3. Wrath of Pie 13,7
    4. Symbi 11,6
    5. RoosterCocoa 11,4
    6. Reeplcheep 9,9
    7. FTW 8,8
    8. jfb1337 8,7
    9. Dooey 8,2
    10. GoblinSmashmaster 7,8
    11. FourDogsinaHorseSuit 7
    12. dte (TO) 6,6
    13. alphastryk 6,4
    14. Asthereal 4,9
    15. Raketenudo 2,9

    Silkster in the lead now, with BoP and WoP close!

    Added cards on the banlist:
    Sustaining Spirit --> repeatedly used, 0 power plus cumulative upkeep
    Wild Evocation --> very fun, but too powerful
    Test of Endurance
    Aetherflux Reservoir
    celestial convergence
    The last three are strategically similar.

    No other banned cards, temporarily or not.

    Target decks:
    Mercadian BazaarWild Evocation Elturel Survivors Gravitational Shift
    Island of Wak-Wak Molten Slagheap Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance
    Sand Silos Mechanized Production Naked Singularity Pemmin's Aura

    And the round is open, I just sent myself a deck.

  8. #328

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Don't forget to update the OP

  9. #329
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    I understand the Wild Evocation ban, but why the others?

    They are slow but not oppressive. They did not score exceptionally well, and there are other ways to make slow decks.

  10. #330

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    I'm not sure Celestial Convergence is banned; it wasn't played and it's not really very similar at all to Test of Endurence or Aetherflux Reservoir (rather than wanting you to slowly build up to a high life total, it just wants you to have 1 more life than the opponent).

  11. #331

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by RoosterCocoa View Post

    I came up with several great decks, but they all unfortunately were too bad to beat the sample decks this week, so I chose a not great list. I knew Pemmin's Aura was too good going into this, but Teferi's Imp having phasing meant that several better options didn't work, and I though people would play fliers to counter Island of Wak-Wak, so I skipped over it.
    I would have been really tempted to play Gut Shot.

    @dte: I don't see an upside to keeping Rivalry legal.

  12. #332
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    @dte: I don't see an upside to keeping Rivalry legal.
    Me neither, I'll add it to the banlist.

    Rivalry is banned!

    Quote Originally Posted by jfb1337 View Post
    I'm not sure Celestial Convergence is banned; it wasn't played and it's not really very similar at all to Test of Endurence or Aetherflux Reservoir (rather than wanting you to slowly build up to a high life total, it just wants you to have 1 more life than the opponent).
    Well, 2 out of 3 cards I know that make you win by gaining life passed the threshold of 3 points.
    It does make sense to ban the third?

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I understand the Wild Evocation ban, but why the others?

    They are slow but not oppressive. They did not score exceptionally well, and there are other ways to make slow decks.
    Wild evocation was definitely the worst offender.
    The others are more debatable, banned here to shake things up a bit.

    Gaining life strategy was played by 25% of the field, and two different options passed the 3 threshold.

    Spirit has scored well and has been a go-to option to be slow. Let's see variations.

  13. #333

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post

    Well, 2 out of 3 cards I know that make you win by gaining life passed the threshold of 3 points.
    It does make sense to ban the third?
    But the purpose of the other cards is that you can make gaining 30 life be slower than dealing 20 damage. Whereas convergence is just an entirely different strategy altogether, of playing it and either gaining one life or dealing one damage. It's a lot closer to Bond of Agony that was seen before than it is to those 50-life wincons.

  14. #334

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    Added cards on the banlist:
    Sustaining Spirit --> repeatedly used, 0 power plus cumulative upkeep
    Wild Evocation --> very fun, but too powerful
    Test of Endurance
    Aetherflux Reservoir
    celestial convergence
    The last three are strategically similar.

    No other banned cards, temporarily or not.

    Target decks:
    Mercadian BazaarWild Evocation Elturel Survivors Gravitational Shift
    Island of Wak-Wak Molten Slagheap Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance
    Sand Silos Mechanized Production Naked Singularity Pemmin's Aura

    And the round is open, I just sent myself a deck.
    Just to be clear, I think the following is correct:

    1) Your deck must still be 4x Wastes.
    2) You must beat at least one of the decks listed above, and all of the cards in those decks themselves are legal (except for Test of Endurance and Wild Evocation).

  15. #335
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by silkster View Post
    Just to be clear, I think the following is correct:

    1) Your deck must still beat 4x Wastes.
    2) You must beat at least one of the decks listed above, and all of the cards in those decks themselves are legal (except for Test of Endurance and Wild Evocation).
    Correct.

  16. #336

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    Correct.
    So someone can roll backk the Sand Silos, Mechanized Production deck?

  17. #337

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    So someone can roll back the Sand Silos, Mechanized Production deck?
    No, cause that doesn't WW against any of the target decks though. It's DD against Survivors and LL against Springjack Pasture + Test of Endurance.

    You can however run back the Springjack Pasture + Test of Endurance deck, cause that goes WW against Mechanized Production.

  18. #338

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by silkster View Post
    No, cause that doesn't WW against any of the target decks though. It's DD against Survivors and LL against Springjack Pasture + Test of Endurance.

    You can however run back the Springjack Pasture + Test of Endurance deck, cause that goes WW against Mechanized Production.
    You can't because test of endurance is banned.

  19. #339
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    I see. So the minimal bans are strategic enough that you can't run any of the target decks. Good choice.

  20. #340

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I see. So the minimal bans are strategic enough that you can't run any of the target decks. Good choice.
    Mechanized Production can probably be reconfigured to beat the Test of Endurance hand.

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