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Thread: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

  1. #401

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    I think you overestimate elemental: against Dooey or Asthereal shouldn't it be DD?
    I got both of these wrong. Dooey is LL per FTW, I canít ever suspend hypergenesis as dooey can empty my storage counters faster than I can charge them.

    Asthereal is indeed DD because elemental outraces scroll even with a 4 turn head start.

  2. #402
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by jfb1337 View Post
    Dooey Warping Wail, Mindslaver, Frenzied Fugue, Mercadian Bazaar
    DD 2-2 If I ever have 6 counters on my land and you have 14, if I haven't played lilliana then you can mindslaver, make me play her + blood artist, have me -3 her, then on my turn take her with fugue and -1 her to death. If I play lilliana earlier, then you can take fugue her and ensure she's always under 3 loyalty on my turn, so I can't win. So we stare.
    This is even simpler. Frenzied Fugue on your Bottomless Vault means you can never store mana or get Ghoul out of your hand. DD 2-2

  3. #403
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    So, we end up with these standings

    round 5:
    5,2 Symbi
    4,2 dte (TO)
    4,2 BirdsOfParadise
    3,3 Reeplcheep
    3,2 GoblinSmashmaster
    2,7 FTW
    2,6 RoosterCocoa
    2,3 FourDogsinaHorseSuit
    2,2 jfb1337
    2,2 alphastryk
    2,0 Wrath of Pie
    1,0 Dooey
    1,0 Asthereal

    Overall season 13:
    18,2 BirdsOfParadise
    16,8 Symbi
    15,7 Wrath of Pie
    15,7 Silkster
    14 RoosterCocoa
    13,2 Reeplcheep
    11,5 FTW
    11 GoblinSmashmaster
    10,9 jfb1337
    10,8 dte (TO)
    9,3 FourDogsinaHorseSuit
    9,2 Dooey
    8,6 alphastryk
    5,9 Asthereal
    2,9 Raketenudo

    Bans:
    city of brass: the possibility to respond to the trigger to deal the last damage slowly while dying on the stack is very strong. Miles better than what mana confluence can do.
    Life of the party. Requested by Silkster, and seems indeed pretty strong.
    Unbans: a lot of our banned cards do not looks scary anymore if we do have to beat 4xwastes.

    Banned cards:
    city of brass
    Life of the Party

    Unbanned cards:
    Flailing Soldier
    Flailing Ogre
    Flailing Manticore
    rhystic cave
    Saproling Cluster

    Present banlist:
    Rainbow Vale
    Lotus Petal
    Forbidden Orchard
    Heartless Summoning
    Helix pinnacle
    Sustaining Spirit
    Wild Evocation
    Test of Endurance
    Aetherflux Reservoir
    celestial convergence
    rivalry
    Naked singularity

    Decks to beat for season 6:
    Warping Wail, Mindslaver, Frenzied Fugue, Mercadian Bazaar
    Dwarven Hold, Cursed Scroll, Apocalypse, Apex of Power
    Saprazzan Skerry, Timberland Ruins, Impatience, Power Artifact GT: 13

    I sent myself a valid deck, so round 6 is open, with a deadline Tuesday, Sept 20 at 19h00min00sec CEST, and the OP is updated ;)

  4. #404
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Asthereal's scores for OMG Apocalypse is so OP:

    dte (TO) dark depths, contested war zone, city of brass, veldt DD-2
    DISAGREEMENT: You have me beating you, but I don't think I can, as my clock is SLOW. My deck kills by turn 52 against the goldfish, and assuming you go down to 10 voluntarily, that reduces my clock to 32 turns, and you kill me by turn 25 at the latest, right? So I have to Apocalypse for the draws.
    GoblinSmashmaster: Bottomless Vault, The Cauldron of Eternity, Boggart Mob, Goblin Charbelcher WW-0
    This is much slower than my clock. You do one damage per, what, 8 turns? And you have to cast the Cauldron first. Nice.
    FTW Tarnished Citadel, Eladamri's Vineyard, Helm of Awakening, Desecration Elemental DD-2
    Ooh that's strong. Have to Apocalypse the house for draws.
    Dooey Warping Wail, Mindslaver, Frenzied Fugue, Mercadian Bazaar DD-2
    Fugue steals my land and taps it for all its stored mana. And then it steals it every turn to tap it for its mana again. This happens before I get to Apocalypse mana, and from there I never get to Scroll activation mana, let alone the 10 mana I need to cast Apex in order to make Scroll work in the first place. But now you don't have colorless mana and can't Wail for the win, so we end in a stalemate of sorts.
    Asthereal: Dwarven Hold, Cursed Scroll, Apocalypse, Apex of Power <-me
    Reeplcheep]Veldt, Salt-Crusted Steppe, Hypergenesis, Desecration Elemental DD-2
    Have to Apocalypse again. Or keep back Scroll to make you sac the guy, but in that case you don't play your guy.
    Wrath of Pie - Saprazzan Skerry, Timberland Ruins, Impatience, Power Artifact DD-2
    Apocalypse for the rescue!
    RoosterCocoa]Svyelunite Temple, Black Lotus, Opalescence, Standstill WW-0
    I can kill Standstill and you can't stop the super slow scroll death.
    jfb1337 Bottomless Vault Liliana, Untouched by Death Sutured Ghoul Blood Artist WW-0
    Scroll kills you and the Artist and the world and I never really need Apocalypse.
    alphastryk Molten Slagheap, Veldt, Bolas's Citadel, Bootleggers' Stash DD-2
    That's dangerous. Let's blow up the house with Apocalypse.
    FourDogsinaHorseSuit Brain in a Jar BiorythmPact of the TitanAncient Tomb DD-2
    Also very dangerous. Let's Apocalypse some more.
    Symbi: City of Brass, Teferi's Isle, Drownyard Temple, Rath's Edge WW-0
    Does the 20th City of Brass trigger resolve after Rath's Edge's 20th activation resolves? I guess it does, as no one here is complaining about the deck. If the deck works, I win easily, so I'll write that down. Magic rules are weird sometimes.
    BirdsOfParadise dark depths, contested war zone, city of brass, Lava Tubes DD-2
    Same disagreement as against dte. I think this deck is faster than mine, so I have to Apocalypse.
    silkster: Land Cap, Fungal Reaches, Life of the Party, Avoid Fate WW-0
    Before you can kill me, I get touse Scroll to murder your wincon. From there I win easily.

    Total: 14 points.
    Last edited by Asthereal; 09-15-2022 at 07:14 AM.
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  5. #405
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    dte (TO) dark depths, contested war zone, city of brass, veldt DD-2
    DISAGREEMENT: You have me beating you, but I don't think I can, as my clock is SLOW. My deck kills by turn 52 against the goldfish, and assuming you go down to 10 voluntarily, that reduces my clock to 32 turns, and you kill me by turn 25 at the latest, right? So I have to Apocalypse for the draws.
    ..
    BirdsOfParadise dark depths, contested war zone, city of brass, Lava Tubes DD-2
    Same disagreement as against dte. I think this deck is faster than mine, so I have to Apocalypse.
    You are right on these, indeed you apocalypse for the draw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Dooey Warping Wail, Mindslaver, Frenzied Fugue, Mercadian Bazaar LL-6
    DISAGREEMENT: I think I actually lose here. Fugue can steal my land and tap it for all its stored mana. And then it steals it every turn to tap it for its mana again. You can do this before I get to Apocalypse mana, and from there I never get to Scroll activation mana, let alone the 10 mana I need to cast Apex in order to make Scroll work in the first place. So you then have free reign to cast Wail for a 1/1 guy and kill me.
    Her Dooey cannot win, as there is no way to get a colorless mana to cast wail. So you can play apocalypse to not die from your own cursed scroll.

  6. #406
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    You are right on these, indeed you apocalypse for the draw.
    Cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    Her Dooey cannot win, as there is no way to get a colorless mana to cast wail. So you can play apocalypse to not die from your own cursed scroll.
    But then Dooey cannot beat the goldfish? Well, he can beat the Wastes deck, as he can steal a Wastes, which is a flaw in our rules, but it's the rules so sod it.
    Quick look at the DtBs gives several options to steal a land that makes colorless mana, so I guess the deck indeed works.

    But... I can never cast Apocalypse, as I don't get to 5 mana before he steals my land and drains it.
    Then again he also can't do anything with Mindslaver, as I don't have mana, so I can't kill myself. Actually, one Mindslaver activation doesn't kill me anyway.
    In fact, Mindslaver is only useful to make me cast/play a thing and then steal it, but he can't, as he needs to steal my land and drain it.
    So I guess this ends in two draws regardless?

    I'll change my result post and so on.
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  7. #407

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    But then Dooey cannot beat the goldfish? Well, he can beat the Wastes deck, as he can steal a Wastes, which is a flaw in our rules, but it's the rules so sod it.
    Quick look at the DtBs gives several options to steal a land that makes colorless mana, so I guess the deck indeed works.
    What if 4 wastes chooses to not play any wastes?

  8. #408
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    What if 4 wastes chooses to not play any wastes?
    That's what the minslaver is for ;)

  9. #409
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    That's what the minslaver is for ;)
    Fairly elaborate, but it works.
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  10. #410
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Wrath of Pie - Saprazzan Skerry, Timberland Ruins, Impatience, Power Artifact GT: 13

    Dooey Warping Wail, Mindslaver, Frenzied Fugue, Mercadian Bazaar - WW - Frenzied Fugue is clever in exploiting dte's choice of having to beat quad-Wastes.
    How do you WW here?
    If you cast Impatience, Dooey casts Frenzied Fugue on Impatience and you would lose. So you do nothing. 1 Mindslaver vs tapped lands can't force you to cast any spells.

  11. #411

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    Oh good, storage lands are de facto banned. Seriously, don't unban these.

  12. #412

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    How do you WW here?
    If you cast Impatience, Dooey casts Frenzied Fugue on Impatience and you would lose. So you do nothing. 1 Mindslaver vs tapped lands can't force you to cast any spells.
    Yeah, it's DD as it turns out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Symbi View Post
    The problem is that Asthereal made the minor mistake of playing a card with relevant text. If you play your ancient tomb, apocalypse can just force a draw.
    I don't think playing Cursed Scroll is a minor mistake (it has relevant text even though you meant Apocalypse), it's fundamentally a major one because it has way too much flexibility in a format that punishes it. One of the most important characteristics of Backbuild is deciding how you want to lose, and cards like Cursed Scroll are not good at helping the losing mentality.

    That's the issue with trying to go slow (Cursed Scroll is definitely not slow), it's not actively trying to be fragile so eventually that approach leads to undesirable wins.

  13. #413

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Oh good, storage lands are de facto banned. Seriously, don't unban these.
    I am probably missing something, but I am not seeing a way to beat quad wastes with the flailing creatures that doesnít also beat storage lands. At least it isnít completely obvious.

  14. #414

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    I have a potential idea to do so, but I can't find a way to make it beat any of the target decks

    Getting it to 5 toughness could work but then it's likely to kill before storage lands actually charge enough to kill it.

  15. #415

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Yes most of my initial ideas made it too fast. At least vs veldt + storage lands.

  16. #416

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    The pick is in

  17. #417
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Next round isn't open yet, right?
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  18. #418

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    I sent myself a valid deck, so round 6 is open, with a deadline Tuesday, Sept 20 at 19h00min00sec CEST, and the OP is updated ;)

  19. #419
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    And 26h before deadline, there are only 6 entries in!

  20. #420
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    And 26h before deadline, there are only 6 entries in!
    Perhaps others missed it as well.
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