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Thread: [Forum Game] 4CB + Risk + Mafia = ???

  1. #1

    [Forum Game] 4CB + Risk + Mafia = ???

    I'm hoping to start another forum game here. It won't start unless there are enough signups. Read on. Oh, and if you think of a good name for this game, let me know.

    This forum game is a mixture of 4-Card Blind (a.k.a. Perfect Hand Magic), Risk, and Mafia.

    Each player is secretly assigned a faction. The game is over when all remaining players belong to a single faction. In that case, that faction wins. (Eliminated players who previously belonged to that faction also win.) Different factions will have different characteristics that can help you figure out who is who.

    There is a game map that is divided into provinces. Each province can be either neutral or owned by one player. Each player starts with one province. A player is eliminated if they have no provinces.

    Each province grants its owner access to a certain subset of Magic cards. For example, the Province of Fish grants access to all cards with the subtype Fish.

    Each player PMs me a name for their kingdom. The list of kingdoms is public information and the list of players (that is, Source user names) is public information, but you do not know which kingdoms belong to which players. In a sense, your kingdom name is a mask you wear.

    These three terms have distinct meanings: Faction =/= Kingdom =/= Province. Your faction is your team (even if you donít know who else belongs to your faction). Your kingdom name is your in-game identity, which will be a secret at the start. Provinces are units of territory.

    Play happens in turns. Each turn is one season inside the game world. In Summer, players enter combat. In Autumn, players vote on certain matters. In Winter, players enter combat (but with a twist). In Spring, players vote.

    How does combat work? Each Summer and Winter, each player PMs me (a) one 4-Card Blind deck and (b) the name of up to one province adjacent to a province they own. The deck must consist of basic lands and/or cards to which that player has access through their provinces (an/or through inheritance; see below). The named province is the one that the player attacks. If the province under attack is neutral, the attacker claims it. (Even a deck with four basic lands wins against a neutral province.) If the province under attack is owned by another player, then those playersí 4-Card Blind decks play against each other (on the play and on the draw). If the attacker achieves a WD, DW, or WW result --- that is, any result better than WL or DD -- then the attacker takes the province. A player may attack on one front and defend on multiple fronts in the same turn. The one deck they submitted for the turn is used in all of those combats. In Winter, the game is Backbuild.

    How does voting work? In each voting season (Autumn and Spring), players will vote on two matters: banning cards and denouncing other players.

    Your voting power is equal to the number of provinces you control.

    Description of voting to ban cards. After combat (that is, at the start of Autumn and Spring), I will post the VICTORY LIST of cards (excluding basic lands) that were included in successful attacking decks in the previous combat. In Autumn and Spring, players vote on cards to ban. Each player PMs me a list of four cards. (It is just a list of cards, not necessarily a functioning deck. You may vote for cards that are not on the victory list.) The top four vote-getting cards are banned and may never again be used.

    Omens. After the banning of cards, anybody who used any of the most recently banned cards in the previous combat receives one OMEN.

    Disasters. Whenever a player has three omens, remove all omens from them and they suffer a disaster. The N-th disaster that a given player suffers causes them to lose N random provinces. (Those provinces become neutral.)

    Description of voting to denounce players. In addition to voting on bans, players also vote to denounce a player every Autumn and Spring. Whichever player receives the most votes has their omens set to zero and suffers a disaster.

    Inheritance: You gain access to a random nonbasic land every turn. This access lasts indefinitely and does not depend on ownership of provinces. Of course, if a card becomes banned, you canít use it.

    Summary. In Summer and Winter, use your 4CB skills to conquer territory. In Autumn and Spring, use politics to bring misfortune on your opponents. At all times, use logic to deduce who is an opponent and who is on your side.

    THE MAP


    SOME SPECIFIC PROVINCE DESCRIPTIONS
    Province of Duality is any double-faced card.
    Province of Visions is any card printed in the set Visions.
    Province of Legends is any card printed in the set Legends OR any card with the Legendary supertype.
    Province of Rocks is any artifact card with an activated mana ability.
    Black Lands is any land with an activated mana ability that can produce black mana.
    Turquoise Lands is any land with an activated mana ability than can produce green mana and an activated mana ability that can produce blue mana. These may be the same ability.
    Province of Dinosaurs is any creature card with the Dinosaur subtype or the Bird subtype.
    Lesser Instant Spells are instants with mana value 3 or less.
    Province of Naught is all spells with mana cost exactly {0}.

    IN CASE OF INACTIVE PLAYERS
    If a player does not submit orders (that is, a decklist plus up to one province to attack) during a combat turn (that is, Summer or Winter), then I will check whether their last submitted deck list is still legal. If it is, Iíll pretend they submitted that deck for the purpose of defense. If it isnít legal, that playerís provinces are undefended that turn, just like a neutral province. If that player later returns to active play, theyíll still have whatever provinces werenít taken from them by other players.

    If a player does not vote in a Spring or Autumn turn, then Iíll just count the votes of the players who *did* vote and advance the game state. Four cards will still get banned and one player will still suffer a disaster, and we move on to the next turn.
    Last edited by BirdsOfParadise; 10-23-2022 at 03:04 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: [Forum Game] 4CB + Risk + Mafia = ???

    Sign up now by posting here or sending a PM if you want to join!

    Disclaimer. To make this work, I will need to use a double standard: I will need players to keep to the (very reasonable) deadlines I set for submitting game actions, but I myself will sometimes need to keep you waiting as I update the game state. I will be able to answer questions in the thread fairly promptly, but updating the game state will be more complicated, and keeping you waiting a few days will not be out of the ordinary.

    I am open to having a co-host if anyone is interested.
    Last edited by BirdsOfParadise; 10-12-2022 at 04:13 PM.

  3. #3

    Re: [Forum Game] 4CB + Risk + Mafia = ???

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    Sign up now by posting here or sending a PM if you want to join!

    Disclaimer. To make this work, I will need to use a double standard: I will need players to keep to the (very reasonable) deadlines I set for submitting game actions, but I myself will sometimes need to keep you waiting as I update the game state. I will be able to answer questions in the thread fairly promptly, but updating the game state will be more complicated, and keeping you waiting a few days will not be out of the ordinary. Without going into personal details, thatís just the best I can offer.

    I am open to having a co-host if anyone is interested.
    You should make a new account to keep track of secret PMs so you don't peek if you want to play

  4. #4

    Re: [Forum Game] 4CB + Risk + Mafia = ???

    Hosting the game will require full knowledge of the game state on my part, so I can't play.

    FourDogs, you in?

  5. #5

    Re: [Forum Game] 4CB + Risk + Mafia = ???

    (moved to OP)
    Last edited by BirdsOfParadise; 10-22-2022 at 10:55 PM.

  6. #6

    Re: [Forum Game] 4CB + Risk + Mafia = ???

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    FourDogs, you in?
    I don't know, this game seems very complicated and I have enough trouble with regular 4cb

  7. #7

    Re: [Forum Game] 4CB + Risk + Mafia = ???

    Thatís fair. Still, I think it looks a bit more complicated than it really is. To boil it down, playing a Summer turn looks like this (PM sent to me):

    Deck: Plains, Plains, Longbow Archer, Longbow Archer
    Attack: Province of Fish
    An example turn in Spring/Autumn might be:

    Vote ban: Mishraís Workshop, Mishraís Factory, Su-Chi, Juggernaut
    Vote disaster: Asthereal
    And thereís some guesswork/politics since itís a Mafia-type game.

    One person signed up so far!
    Last edited by BirdsOfParadise; 10-16-2022 at 02:27 AM.

  8. #8
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    Re: [Forum Game] 4CB + Risk + Mafia = ???

    I'm interested and would play.

    But this does sound complicated. Not just to play regularly assuming perfect play, but in terms of managing the irregularities (illegal decks, missing players, attrition, late joiners).

    Based on previous 4CB rounds, the more confusing the rules are, the more likely someone makes an illegal play (unfun).

    We also had high attrition. Some people don't even play consistently through a whole season. They may play the first few and quit. Or they may play intermittently, missing some weeks. How does that work in this game? What if someone's province is challenged to battle but they aren't playing anymore? Do they automatically lose the province? Do they retain the province in case they return to play later? How is voting managed if some people don't vote on time? What if everyone in one faction quits (without knowing it), making the game unbalanced? What if a faction ends up with only 2 players (i.e. voting is difficult)?

    What's the minimum number of players for this sort of game to really work? You need multiple factions and multiple people per faction, right?

    How many rounds could the game go? Risk can last a very long time if combat stalemates. Retaining players becomes a bigger issue then too.

  9. #9

    Re: [Forum Game] 4CB + Risk + Mafia = ???

    Hi FTW! Great, Iíll PM you as well as posting here if/when the game is ready to start. Two signups so far.

    Youíre right, it would be suboptimal if players dropped out mid-game.

    The game just moves along even if some players go inactive (temporarily or permanently).

    Edit: Moved section on inactive players up to OP.

    Iíll try to monitor for illegal decks and give people chances to fix errors. The Backbuild season was challenging because it was sometimes quite difficult to recognize that a deck was illegal. Here we wonít have that problem. Even during Winter, when the game is Backbuild, the target will be something straightforward like an empty deck or four unplayable bricks.

    The minimum number of players is 5, but more would be better. I was hoping for 9 when I started the thread.

    I'm not sure how many turns the game could go, but the disaster mechanic forces the game toward a conclusion. Your N-th disaster causes you to lose N provinces, and someone is always hit with a disaster in Spring and in Autumn (that is, every other turn). There's no such thing as a stable equilibrium.

    If a whole faction quits, thatís a game-ender if only one faction remains. If a faction is down to two people, thatís not necessarily a problem. Voting power is weighted by your number of provinces. A powerful voting bloc could be held by a small coalition of players or even a single player.
    Last edited by BirdsOfParadise; 10-23-2022 at 03:05 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: [Forum Game] 4CB + Risk + Mafia = ???

    Thanks for answering all those questions. It sounds like you've thought through the rules and details. It should run smoothly.

    I see you included a province of Goblins to entice a certain player... Some provinces have straightforward deck construction rules. Others are less clear from the names. Will those be explained later? That would help avoid illegal decks (or debates on whether it fits the category).

    For example if you have the neighboring "Province of Lesser Instant Spells" and "Province of Naught", can you submit Stifle + Phyrexian Dreadnought? Or have I misinterpreted "Naught?" Have I misinterpreted lesser instants too? Would Pact of the Titan + Angel's Grace be legal?

  11. #11

    Re: [Forum Game] 4CB + Risk + Mafia = ???

    Yes, the map needs more explanation.

    Lesser Instant Spells are instants with mana value 3 or less.
    Province of Naught is all spells with mana cost exactly {0}.

    Pact of the Titan + Angelís Grace is legal if you own the Province of Lesser Instant Spells.
    Iíve provided some additional province descriptions in the OP.

    Iíve also added the Inheritance rule to the OP: Every turn, you gain access to a random nonbasic land.
    Last edited by BirdsOfParadise; 10-23-2022 at 12:04 AM.

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