Objection! While you lose if you cast show and tell first, casting flamebreather first is not a winning line for me. After flamebreather is in play, I will lose 1 life per turn to mana vault while you will lose 1 life per turn due to me attacking. However, you can then freely cast show and tell to put forsaken wastes into play. Then I will lose life first, meaning that during my turns, I will always have a lower life total than you. As you have to be at 1 life for me to safely cast mana clash, I don't. Then both of us take 2 per turn, but I take 2 damage first. Therefore this is a draw.Originally Posted by dte
Urborg stops pain and suicide lands.
Orb stops people with suicide creatures, or negative ETB effects.
The Urborg makes sense, but you don't haven't forced your deck to play it, so you just never would in games where it matters. The Torpor Orb makes sense if you can think of any creatures with negative ETB effects, but I am not that clever!
SOMEONE kept playing a champion dude.
Oh, the Boggart and the Goblin Assassin! I see you.
Oh and I think phage saw play too?
Objection! I can't beat shield sphere. So this is a draw.
Sustained!
Did you choose Wastes of Roiling Vortex because you saw this coming? I'm prepared to be very impressed.
I think you win both. You can resolve Show and Tell (T5) before I resolve Hypergenesis (T6). If you resolve first, my upkeep triggers first before yours, so I am always behind in the damage race. I can't even play my Vortex off your Show and Tell (if I've suspended first), because Vortex will deal me 5 damage.
Likewise. I never thought that far ahead. Clever tech!!
Silkster, are you targeting the Biorhythm deck? How do you win if you deploy Reactor and then they go Biorhythm on their own turn? You go to 1 life, then it becomes your turn, and doesn’t Mana Vault kill you?
FTW, can you not safely go Hypergenesis against me and then win twenty turns later on my upkeep because of APNAP?
Does anyone know when GoblinSmashmaster is first able to deal 1 damage? (Not win, just ping once?)
UH OH! That's not good. I needed to pick Ornithopter/Walker to block Lion's Sash forever, I guess. Cruelly, I don't think that would change any matchups. I flew too close to the sun!
On the "bright side" I was already out of the running for first, so this loss isn't the deal breaker. On the other hand, fixing both dumb mistakes probably would have won it for me. On the third hand, 3/4 of an inch in the other direction and I would have missed completely.
Yeah, I picked the wrong storage land and it's why I beat the dark depth decks.
I wanted to play Teferi's Isle, Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Dark Depths, Mana Vault (GT22 at 1 life) but it couldn't race the Ajani deck after we corrected the math. That's why I asked about it when the round started.
I wanted to play Vineyard too (with Hypergenesis), but it couldn't beat the target decks. It helped both the Biorhythm deck and the Ajani deck too much, so you would need to build to beat Lich. But neither Hypergenesis nor Manticore can beat the Lich deck. I guess no one else found a way to use it either. Maybe Desecration Elemental.
Good point. Normally silkster can stack the Reactor trigger on top, but Reactor won't have enough counters then.
Shield Sphere does block Lion Sash 6 times. I think that's not enough.
Oh good point. They both take 20 upkeeps but mine will trigger first. WW 0-6
He could cast Cannon with City + flipped Treasure Map + 1 treasure, only consuming 1 treasure once Hallowed Ground is in play and Map has flipped twice (Turn 9). After that he can always threaten to fire Cannon once with City (0 treasures). More once more treasures are created.
Silkster, I was literally in the middle of PMing “our” deck to dte with Kobolds of Kher Keep, and typing out my explanation of how I beat the target, when I saw that Biorhythm line. I feel you!
Thank you, FTW, for walking me through this instance of Treasure Map + Hallowed Ground math, a combo which has haunted my dreams ever since dte used it in R1.
dte(TO), summoner's pact, forsaken wastes, show and tell, sand silos, GT25+upkeep
It appears that APNAP favors me.
LL (0 + 6 = 6)
GoblinSmashmaster, City of Traitors, Treasure Map, Hallowed Ground, Goblin Cannon, GT150
If I deploy my win condition, you ping me first and I lose to my Mana Vault. So I don't deploy my win condition. So you build up treasure tokens and eventually win.
LL (6 + 6 = 12)
Dooey, Hidetsugu's Second Rite, Molten Slagheap, Sorin’s Vengeance, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, GT11
If I tap Mana Vault, you can wait until I'm in HSR range and then kill me.
If I don't tap Mana Vault, you can save up enough storage to cast Sorin's Vengeance and HSR in one turn.
LL (12 + 6 = 18)
Asthereal, Dark Depths, Boseiju, who shelters all, Seraph Sanctuary, Veldt, GT23
I'm GT25 dealing no damage.
LL (18 + 6 = 24)
Reeplcheep, Dark Depths, Barbarian Ring, Kher Keep, Veldt, GT23
I'm GT25 dealing no damage.
LL (24 + 6 = 30)
RoosterCocoa, Lotus Bloom, Hypergenesis, Oath of Mages, Lich, GT27
If I play out Mana Vault -> Darksteel Reactor, you put Oath of Mages in play and the damage will kill me (together with Mana Vault).
If I don't play out Mana Vault, you could try Hypergenesis, but it looks like then I win on my upkeep the turn before you'd win on your upkeep. So I think we stare.
DD (30 + 2 = 32)
Symbi, Mana Vault, Kessig Flamebreather, Forgotten Cave, Mana Clash, GT22
I believe you can just play your cards and win. If I use my Mana Vault, I'll lose to your damage.
LL (32 + 6 = 38)
FourDogsinaHorseSuit, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Sand Silos, Torpor Orb, March of the Machines, GT c. 16
I believe that when you're on the play, you can get March of the Machines in play the turn before I can get Darksteel Reactor in play. March of the Machines
kills Mox Tantalite, and then Torpor Orb 2/2 >>> Mana Vault 1/1 that can't untap.
When I'm on the play, though, I can get Darksteel Reactor out, and either I win with charge counters or you play March of the Machines and I win with a 4/4.
WL (38 + 3 = 41)
BirdsOfParadise, Darksteel Reactor, Flame Blitz, Mana Vault, Mox Tantalite, GT 25
That's me, sorry for not including my GT. It's 25, not 24.
jfb1337, Calciform Pools, Gemstone Mine, The Royal Scions, Nexus of Fate, GT178
Alas, Flame Blitz crushes The Royal Scions.
WW (41 + 0 = 41)
FTW, Teferi's Isle, Flooded Grove, Hypergenesis, Roiling Vortex, GT25
It appears that APNAP favors me.
LL (41 + 6 = 47)
Silkster, Gemstone Mine, Mana Vault, Darksteel Reactor, Shield Sphere, GT c. 22
No Silkster :(
Total: 47 pt
My other decks for this round:
Sand Silos, Lion's Eye Diamond, Dreams of the Dead, Swamp Mosquito = Beats Biorhythm, deals no damage, GT > 110.
Sand Silos, Academy Ruins, Keldon Battlewagon, Mystic Might = Beats Biorhythm, slowest clock I can think of (>700, I think),
but unfortunately deals the first point of damage pretty easily. Fails versus Roiling Vortex, etc.
My best idea I never got to use:
Sand Silos, Enter the Infinite, Haunting Imitation, Desecration Elemental
I think this might have been good in the round when Impatience / Power Artifact was a target deck.
The Flailing creature that got away:
Warmonger
It was always on my mind, and I hoped to surprise (?) people with it, but the stars never aligned. People started to gravitate away from storage lands and
towards low-mana decks that couldn't sustain any damage. One way I wanted to get it into play was Mox Tantalite, Sol Talisman, Mercadian Lift.
@FTW: I dig that Draco!
Last edited by BirdsOfParadise; 10-18-2022 at 06:39 PM.
Ah right. Of course, you were the one playing the same strategy, so you were at the ready to recognize that it wasn't legal. Congratulations on your season victory! I can take solace that I found approximately the same deck as the winner this week.
In other news, I've decided to run the WUBRG season first, in part for the selfish reason that I will be less likely to submit an entirely invalid deck. New thread here: https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/...lkster-Seasons
The first round isn't open yet. I'm undecided on whether to wait a week in between the end of this season and the start of the next one.
That Swamp Mosquito deck is gorgeous. If I'd thought of something so clever, I wouldn't have been able to stop myself from submitting it.
I was watching out for Warmonger every round, but its ability to do a bunch of damage before dying made it get draws too easily. I was long ago trying to power it out with 2x Eladamri's Vineyard. I also wanted to try Ifh-Biff Efreet (with Vineyard, of course), though I was never confident that an opponent could produce :G:.
The other deck pre-Wastes that I was excited for was Gemstone Mine, Eladamri's Vineyard, Quicksilver Wall, Animate Wall.
In my first brewing for the season, I landed on Lava Tube, Dreadship Reef, Faerie Tauntings, Corpse Dance, which had a GT of 202, so it only went WL against Helix Pinnacle. I revised it to City of Brass, Bottomless Vault, Faerie Tauntings, Whispers of the Muse (GT:120) and for a few weeks I thought I was always going to play this deck the following week, but I kept finding better.
I didn't expect the decks to get so much weaker in the first few weeks as people submitted decks whose win condition relied on the opponent's cards, though perhaps I should have. My coolest idea for week 1 was Bottomless Vault, Soldevi Digger, Inquisition, Sleeper Agent. The problem was that it was able to salvage far too many draws by being able to kill opponents at 2 life. It was because of this deck that my uncastables were always white but I didn't expect Mindslaver and Word of Command, or I'd have played Intervention Pact.
Other decks I've long considered:
Hollow Trees, Soldevi Digger, Kamahl's Summons, Leyline of Lightning,
Merdcadian Bazaar, Harmless Offering, Magnivore, other card, (almost played it this week with Desperate Ritual to be fast enough against Biorhythm)
From before the Wastes-beating requirement:
Lotus Bloom, Hall of the Bandit Lord, Gemstone Mine, Energy Vortex,
River Delta, Dreadship Reef, Want of Ith, Nameless Race,
Dwarven Hold, Harmless Offering, Culling Dais, Ancient Runes
which could have been updated to use Chromatic Orrery instead.
Reeplcheep, Dark Depths, Barbarian Ring, Kher Keep, Veldt, GT23 TD: Brain in a Jar
A slight change to my previous deck that trades going off at 1 life for 0 lifegain. I didn’t think my deck WW’d vs any deck, and I thought impatience style decks would be played.
I beat 4x wastes by making marit lage on t22 at 10 life (3 turns to play my mana producing lands, 19 to remove counters) and then attacking. I beat charbeltcher in a similar fashion, after taking two turns and 1 life to make a kobold. I can’t combo if the goldfish goes off, but the goldfish will die to pact a turn late.
DTE, summoner's pact, forsaken wastes, show and tell, sand silos, GT25+upkeep
You do 10 damage to me before I can combo. LL 6-0
GoblinSmashmaster, City of Traitors, Treasure Map, Hallowed Ground, Goblin Cannon, GT150
WW 0-6
Dooey, Hidetsugu's Second Rite, Molten Slagheap, Sorin’s Vengeance, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, GT11
Pain lands means you can’t win, but neither can I after you dome me for 10. DD 2-2
You can’t Drain me without letting my depths tap for mana. WW 0-6
Asthereal, Dark Depths, Boseiju, who shelters all, Seraph Sanctuary, Veldt, GT23
I wasn’t sure this beat the target decks? Pseudo mirror, lages stare. DD 2-2
RoosterCocoa, Lotus Bloom, Hypergenesis, Oath of Mages, Lich, GT27
You deal 10 damage to me before I can combo. LL 6-0
Symbi, Mana Vault, Kessig Flamebreather, Forgotten Cave, Mana Clash, GT22
You are faster and I can’t combo once you deal the first 10. LL 6-0
FourDogsinaHorseSuit, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Sand Silos, Torpor Orb, March of the Machines, GT c. 16
You are faster and making kobolds only delays the inevitable. LL 6-0
BirdsOfParadise, Darksteel Reactor, Flame Blitz, Mana Vault, Mox Tantalite, GT c. 25
I’m slightly faster. WW 0-6
jfb1337, Calciform Pools, Gemstone Mine, The Royal Scions, Nexus of Fate, GT178
WW 0-6. This is the disadvantage of my new version.
FTW, Teferi's Isle, Flooded Grove, Hypergenesis, Roiling Vortex, GT25
I can’t gain life, and you deal 10 before I can combo. LL 6-0
Silkster, Gemstone Mine, Mana Vault, Darksteel Reactor, Shield Sphere, GT c. 22
Unlike BoP, you are faster than me. LL 6-0. Illegal anyways?
If FTW isn’t legal, 8W 10 L 4 DQ = 42/66
Last edited by Reeplcheep; 10-19-2022 at 08:33 AM.
[snip silkster’s secret tech]
That is a fun read, Silkster. It’s amazing how many clever ideas other players are having that one never learns about. Still, you and I had a bit of overlap: We were both wondering if we dared use Efreet + Vineyard :D
It hurt me not to use the Swamp Mosquito deck. I like decks with old cards and decks with animals. Your kind words are a balm (for me and for the poor overlooked bug ^^)
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