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Thread: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

  1. #241

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Me: BirdsOfParadise Ancient Tomb, Cognivore, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity

    dte (TO) lava tubes,word of command,golgari rot farm,reito lantern
    We don't really interact.
    DD (0 + 2 = 2 pt)
    FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Extract the Truth Boneyard Parley
    Cognivore has 0 power.
    DD (2 + 2 = 4 pt)
    Dooey Ramunap Ruins, Shadowblood Ridge, Check for Traps, Spear Spewer
    That's clever! Looks like you can't kill me since I have no instants.
    DD (4 + 2 = 6 pt)
    jfb1337 Mercadian Bazaar Brass's Bounty Reito Lantern Word of command
    The idea of repeatedly forcing the strawman to tap Cabal Pit using Word of Command never occurred to me! Ingenious. (dte, too.)
    DD (6 + 2 = 8 pt)
    Reeplcheep silkster: Mishra's Workshop, Barbed Wire, Skizzik, Slaughter Pact
    Your cards win, mine do nothing.
    LL (8 + 6 = 14 pt)
    Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance
    Your cards win, I can't interact.
    LL (14 + 6 = 20 pt)
    Wrath of Pie - Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Guiltfeeder
    Greetings, mirror. Guiltfeeder never occurred to me. I'll be interested in seeing if that small variation affects our relative scores.
    DD (20 + 2 = 22 pt)
    RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Dovescape, sorcerous sight, Leyline of Sanctity
    If only Hint of Insanity said "target opponent," you could use Leyline to prevent me from doing anything while hitting me with a 1/1 flier. As it is, I think we stare.
    DD (22 + 2 = 24 pt)
    GoblinSmashmaster Teferi's Isle, Tarnished Citadel, Cabal Ritual, Covetous Urge
    You can get an instant in the GY and get Cognivore with Covetous Urge, but you can't actually cast Cognivore.
    DD (24 + 2 = 26 pt)
    silkster: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Cognivore
    Hello there, good-looking.
    DD (26 + 2 = 28 pt)
    Symbi: City of Brass, Shivan Gorge, Teferi's Isle, Gifted Aetherborn
    I think you bring us both to one life, then you tap Isle and City of Brass, and with City's lethal damage to you on the stack, you kill me with Shivan Gorge?
    LL (28 + 6 = 34 pt)
    FTW: Academy Ruins, Dreadship Reef, Mindslaver, Demonic Pact
    You Slaver lock me into dealing 20 damage to myself with Ancient Tomb.
    LL (34 + 6 = 40 pt)
    Asthereal: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Aura Flux, Teferi's Imp
    You use your win condition.
    LL (40 + 6 = 46 pt)

    Total = 46 pt

    As dte said, it was drawland again, but I've actually enjoyed the rounds where we figure out how to make a deck that cannot win, then try to figure out how we can still lose to another deck that cannot win. In all my time playing MtG I've never until now explored the deck-building space around Word of Command and painlands. The counter to the Hint of Insanity deck might have been something like Veldt, Helix Pinnacle, Beacon of Destruction, Beacon of Destruction. (Good thing I didn't have the guts to submit that.) To me this meta doesn't actually seem lacking. I wonder if, instead of requiring a goldish by adding 4x wastes as a target deck, it would work to make it harder to not goldfish by requiring players to defeat multiple decks from the previous round. If we'd had to beat the Teferi's Imp deck and the 2x Word of Command deck this round, there would have been fewer decks that couldn't goldfish, but that door would still be open for someone with a really ingenious idea.

  2. #242

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    Looks like drawland all over again. Magic is too full of cards like Hint of Insanity to hope to fix this, even if the target decks were strong.
    I'm honoured that my deck was singled out as so absurdly stupid that the rules should be changed. Seriously, that's maybe better than winning. Speaking of which, let's see how it went. Edit: Oh, there were several.

    dte (TO) lava tubes,word of command,golgari rot farm,reito lantern DD
    FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Extract the Truth Boneyard Parley DD
    Dooey Ramunap Ruins, Shadowblood Ridge, Check for Traps, Spear Spewer DD
    jfb1337 Mercadian Bazaar Brass's Bounty Reito Lantern Word of command DD
    Reeplcheep: Mishra's Workshop, Barbed Wire, Skizzik, Slaughter Pact LL, Why Slaughter Pact? Don't you win get points against all the Word of Command and Mindslaver decks with a pact that doesn't require targets?
    Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance LL
    Wrath of Pie - Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Guiltfeeder DD
    RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Dovescape, sorcerous sight, Leyline of Sanctity DD, "Target player" not "Target opponent". Darn.
    GoblinSmashmaster Teferi's Isle, Tarnished Citadel, Cabal Ritual, Covetous Urge, DD
    BirdsOfParadise Ancient Tomb, Cognivore, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, DD, Ehhh! A fellow Cognivore fan!
    silkster: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Cognivore I own a playset of Cognivores waiting for their day. Do you think it's soon?
    Symbi: City of Brass, Shivan Gorge, Teferi's Isle, Gifted Aetherborn, LL, as I do no damage and can play nothing productive.
    FTW: Academy Ruins, Dreadship Reef, Mindslaver, Demonic Pact, LL, City of Brass coming in hot.
    Asthereal: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Aura Flux, Teferi's Imp, LL,
    Oh, I thought about submitting this. I first spent quite a while designing a deck that specifically loses to Aura Flux, and I got there, but I was accidentally beating cards like Demonic Pact. I was trying to find my way around those, and I found a few but they were accidentally too strong in other ways. Then I realized that this deck itself was legal and wondered if that was a mistake. Finally, I decided to opt out completely of the Aura Flux deck shenanigans and the Mindslaver v. Pacts conflict.

    16D, 10L for 48 46 points. Hopefully I didn't screw it up too badly this time.

    It took me a while to figure out why looping Word of Command was legal this round. I thought it had to do with using City of Brass to activate the Add X ability of Dreadship Reef, and I knew that didn't work cause I read Word of Command and all of its Gatherer rulings this week. But then I realized why it needed to be Reito Lantern over Soldevi Digger. Very nice. I regret not playing a discard spell that I could cast without charging up counters. But those were all probably too powerful anyway and would have led to wins against Slaughter Pact and Cabal Ritual.

  3. #243

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by silkster View Post
    16D, 10L for 48 points. Hopefully I didn't screw it up too badly this time.
    Doesn't look like you did. 46 points, though, right?

  4. #244

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post

    Looks like drawland all over again. Magic is too full of cards like Hint of Insanity to hope to fix this, even if the target decks were strong. For the next round, we will have to beat 4 x wastes additionally to the target deck. The discussion just above is further proof of that.
    And before the next round, we vote for the banning system. No need to write anything about it right now, we will first figure out which cards to ban with either system.
    I tried to limit you to the worst hand specifically for a reason with the finite goldfish limiter for a reason, because including the double Word of Command hand was the real issue. Once I knew that was the case, the only choice was Hint of Insanity.

    The only other viable hand I could think of involved double Jinxed Choker, and if you think drawland is bad enough, have fun calculating Jinxed Choker matchups.

  5. #245

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    But the turn 1 creature doesn't beat you either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Reeplcheep Mishra's Workshop, Barbed Wire, Skizzik, Slaughter Pact

    Wrath of Pie - Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Guiltfeeder
    I have 2 uncastable cards. LL 6-0

    RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Dovescape, sorcerous sight, Leyline of Sanctity
    Silos into sight is fast enough. LL 6-0

    GoblinSmashmaster Teferi's Isle, Tarnished Citadel, Cabal Ritual, Covetous Urge
    WD 1-4

    Symbi: City of Brass, Shivan Gorge, Teferi's Isle, Gifted Aetherborn
    Lifelink threat LL 6-0
    Wrath of Pie can't kill you unless you have 2 instants with the same name.
    RoosterCocoa can't kill you because if Dovescape is cast, then you can cast Barbed Wire for 3 birds and win. But you also can't cast Barbed Wire first, cause then you'd lose to birds.
    GoblinSmashmaster can't cast Covetous Urge until turn 3, much to late to stop you from casting it.
    Symbi can't cast the Gifted Aetherborn. I think it's there to get points off of Covetous Urge.

  6. #246

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Wrath of Pie - Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Guiltfeeder

    dte (TO) lava tubes,word of command,golgari rot farm,reito lantern - DD
    FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Extract the Truth Boneyard Parley - DD
    Dooey Ramunap Ruins, Shadowblood Ridge, Check for Traps, Spear Spewer - DD
    jfb1337 Mercadian Bazaar Brass's Bounty Reito Lantern Word of command - DD
    Reeplcheep: Mishra's Workshop, Barbed Wire, Skizzik, Slaughter Pact - LL - Unfortunately, Workshop self-damage doesn't work that well without all the losing to unrestricted mana strategies around as prey.
    Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance - LL - Definitely the most amusing entry.
    RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Dovescape, sorcerous sight, Leyline of Sanctity - DD
    GoblinSmashmaster Teferi's Isle, Tarnished Citadel, Cabal Ritual, Covetous Urge - DD
    BirdsOfParadise Ancient Tomb, Cognivore, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity - DD
    silkster: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Cognivore - DD
    Symbi: City of Brass, Shivan Gorge, Teferi's Isle, Gifted Aetherborn - LL - The most clever self-damage strategy, but it suffered from Word of Command being legal to beat.
    FTW: Academy Ruins, Dreadship Reef, Mindslaver, Demonic Pact - LL - Mindslaver loops confirmed too good.
    Asthereal: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Aura Flux, Teferi's Imp - LL

    10l16d = 46 points

    Next round will be less insane I'm guessing. (I probably have to start over from scratch to figure out how to beat quad-Wastes, because it will massively narrow the metagame and losing to specific conditions gets a lot harder with that around. At least Jinxed Choker is still legal!)

  7. #247

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by silkster View Post
    But the turn 1 creature doesn't beat you either..
    Oh you're right I read it like five times and thought it said "target" and not each.

  8. #248

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Oh you're right I read it like five times and thought it said "target" and not each.
    We've all made worse mistakes and misreadings, or at least I have. I only know that one cause I drafted that set once or twice and I remember being impressed that such a terrible card was actually playable because it enabled... something. Bloodthirst? Nope, it was Spectacle.

    Question: How does <lava tubes,word of command,golgari rot farm,reito lantern> beat <Lava Tubes,Cabal Pit,Word of Command,Word of Command>? Can't the dummy deck just tap Lava Tubes for red in response?
    Last edited by silkster; 08-30-2022 at 10:41 PM.

  9. #249

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Dovescape, sorcerous sight, Leyline of Sanctity

    dte (TO) lava tubes,word of command,golgari rot farm,reito lantern
    If I play Dovescape, you can make more doves than me. DD

    FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Extract the Truth Boneyard Parley
    If I play Dovescape, you can make more doves than me. DD

    Dooey Ramunap Ruins, Shadowblood Ridge, Check for Traps, Spear Spewer
    You can't cast Check for Traps. WW

    jfb1337 Mercadian Bazaar Brass's Bounty Reito Lantern Word of command
    If I play Dovescape, you can make more doves than me. DD

    Reeplcheep silkster: Mishra's Workshop, Barbed Wire, Skizzik, Slaughter Pact
    If I play Dovescape, you can make more doves than me. DD

    Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance
    If I play Dovescape, you make more doves than me, but if I don't you can still win. LL

    Wrath of Pie - Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Guiltfeeder
    If I play Dovescape, you can make more doves than me. DD

    GoblinSmashmaster Teferi's Isle, Tarnished Citadel, Cabal Ritual, Covetous Urge
    If I play Dovescape, you can make more doves than me. DD

    BirdsOfParadise Ancient Tomb, Cognivore, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity
    If I play Dovescape, you can make more doves than me. DD

    silkster: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Cognivore
    If I play Dovescape, you can make more doves than me. DD

    Symbi: City of Brass, Shivan Gorge, Teferi's Isle, Gifted Aetherborn
    You don't have any noncreature spells to cast. WW

    FTW: Academy Ruins, Dreadship Reef, Mindslaver, Demonic Pact
    If I play Dovescape, you can make more doves than me. DD

    Asthereal: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Aura Flux, Teferi's Imp
    If I play Dovescape, you can make more doves than me, but if I don't you win with the imp. LL

    4W 18D 4L = 30

    I didn't feel like searching for a way to win against only the target deck, so I went with Dovescape and hoped enough people would be playing decks that had a goldfish turn. It looks like this would have been better saved for a future round.

  10. #250
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by silkster View Post
    Question: How does <lava tubes,word of command,golgari rot farm,reito lantern> beat <Lava Tubes,Cabal Pit,Word of Command,Word of Command>? Can't the dummy deck just tap Lava Tubes for red in response?
    Damn, that sounds right.
    Jfb1337's deck and mine are illegal then :/

  11. #251
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by silkster View Post
    Question: How does <lava tubes,word of command,golgari rot farm,reito lantern> beat <Lava Tubes,Cabal Pit,Word of Command,Word of Command>? Can't the dummy deck just tap Lava Tubes for red in response?
    That's a very good point and how I ended up on Mindslaver loop instead of Word of Command loop (with a different enabler). Word needs very specific conditions to activate opponent's mana abilities: opponent has castable card in hand (did not think of Reito Lantern), you can pay the full cost of the spell, and opponent can't dodge it by tapping out in response. I thought I needed control of the full turn to guarantee it, but it cost matches vs other painland decks.

    I ran Demonic Pact to lose the Mindslaver mirror (never came up) without losing to Word (tap out in response).
    Last edited by FTW; 09-01-2022 at 12:47 PM.

  12. #252

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    I would still like clarification on whether you are allowed to use any non-basics from the decks to beat. Otherwise the boring and very strong strategy is to just pick the DTB that beats the other DTB.

  13. #253
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    I would still like clarification on whether you are allowed to use any non-basics from the decks to beat. Otherwise the boring and very strong strategy is to just pick the DTB that beats the other DTB.
    For future rounds, I agree the target decks should be banned to prevent mirroring or copying.

  14. #254

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    Damn, that sounds right.
    Jfb1337's deck and mine are illegal then :/
    oops :/

  15. #255
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    I would still like clarification on whether you are allowed to use any non-basics from the decks to beat. Otherwise the boring and very strong strategy is to just pick the DTB that beats the other DTB.
    I disagree it is a strong strategy. The imp.deck scores are bad this round.

  16. #256

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    I disagree it is a strong strategy. The imp.deck scores are bad this round.
    That’s fair, but we do need a ruling on whether cards contained in round N’s target decks are legal for use in round N. I’m guessing you intend them to be legal, since you ran Lava Tubes and Word of Command, but any confusion should be resolved. Most players used City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Word of Command, etc. in the last round, and anybody adhering to a nonexistent restriction is at a disadvantage.

    I think the confusion arose because Helix Pinnacle was banned in round 1 but no longer, or something like that.

  17. #257

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    Wait, Pinnacle is legal again?

  18. #258
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    I definitely thought the banlist was cumulative, so Pinnacle would still be banned - that's how other season bannathons worked in the past.

  19. #259

    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    I just assumed it was legal again since it’s not included on the banned list.

  20. #260
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    Re: 4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

    The basic rule is anything not on the list is legal.

    Thad being said, for helix it is my mistake, it should be on the list.

    Anyway, I will come back with the two lists tomorrow, and launch the vote.

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