You guys have goldfish turns?Originally Posted by FTW
Suboptimal deck playing Memnite over Force of Will. Must be gunning for 2nd last.
Force of Will? They should be going with Pact of Negation to force through that T0 win!
Maybe I should create two fake accounts...
Arc Blade will be back, baby?
Ah, see that opens itself up to getting beaten by Chancellor of the annex + some wincon based only on lands; which could be made reasonably slow! Instead you've got to force the backbuild players to deal with two threats and provide a threat of their own!
Yours dies to FoW + griffin + coveting urge.
FoW + coveting urge * 2 still beats without even beating wastes *4.
I think beating any specific deck is too easy.
Clearly the optimal anti-backbuild deck is just Chancellor of the Annex, Cavern of Souls, Black Lotus, Thassa's Oracle
But of course that loses to City of Traitors, Urza's Saga, Chancellor of the Annex, Chancellor of the Annex
and so on and so on
(Chancellor is pretty dumb)
And here are the decks for R3!
dte (TO) lava tubes,word of command,golgari rot farm,reito lantern
FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Extract the Truth Boneyard Parley
Dooey Ramunap Ruins, Shadowblood Ridge, Check for Traps, Spear Spewer
jfb1337 Mercadian Bazaar Brass's Bounty Reito Lantern Word of command
Reeplcheep silkster: Mishra's Workshop, Barbed Wire, Skizzik, Slaughter Pact
Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance
Wrath of Pie - Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Guiltfeeder
RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Dovescape, sorcerous sight, Leyline of Sanctity
GoblinSmashmaster Teferi's Isle, Tarnished Citadel, Cabal Ritual, Covetous Urge
BirdsOfParadise Ancient Tomb, Cognivore, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity
silkster: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Cognivore
Symbi: City of Brass, Shivan Gorge, Teferi's Isle, Gifted Aetherborn
FTW: Academy Ruins, Dreadship Reef, Mindslaver, Demonic Pact
Asthereal: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Aura Flux, Teferi's Imp
Looks like drawland all over again. Magic is too full of cards like Hint of Insanity to hope to fix this, even if the target decks were strong. For the next round, we will have to beat 4 x wastes additionally to the target deck. The discussion just above is further proof of that.
And before the next round, we vote for the banning system. No need to write anything about it right now, we will first figure out which cards to ban with either system.
If the goal is to backbuild while being forced to construct decent decks against your will, then...
Go through the old Asthereal’s thread, and for every frontbuild event there, run a backbuild event where you need to defeat the best-performing frontbuild deck that was entered AND a goldfish AND Mountain, Forest, Grizzly Bears, Fire Ambush. Bam.
Edit: Well I see I’m in good company this round.
And here are my scores!
dte (TO) lava tubes,word of command,golgari rot farm,reito lantern
Me, thinking I was original, but for the second time in a row it turned out I wasn’t with a similar submission the first day. I also liked the idea to beat double word of commands by playing more words of command.
FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Extract the Truth Boneyard Parley
2-2. No kills mirror.
Dooey Ramunap Ruins, Shadowblood Ridge, Check for Traps, Spear Spewer
6-0. Beats WoC.
8
jfb1337 Mercadian Bazaar Brass's Bounty Reito Lantern Word of command
2-2. No kills mirror.
10
Reeplcheep silkster: Mishra's Workshop, Barbed Wire, Skizzik, Slaughter Pact
6-0. Cannot beat that.
16
Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance
6-0. Cannot beat that.
22
Wrath of Pie - Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Guiltfeeder
2-2. No kills mirror. I was amazed when I read Hint on how narrow it was, but it turns out others found it too.
24
RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Dovescape, sorcerous sight, Leyline of Sanctity
2-2. There is a kill! But I can always cast lantern, so you cannot cast dovescape. If you don’t store mana, I can’ force you to do anything either.
26
GoblinSmashmaster Teferi's Isle, Tarnished Citadel, Cabal Ritual, Covetous Urge
2-2. No kills mirror.
28
BirdsOfParadise Ancient Tomb, Cognivore, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity
2-2. No kills mirror.
30
silkster: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Cognivore
2-2. No kills mirror.
32
Symbi: City of Brass, Shivan Gorge, Teferi's Isle, Gifted Aetherborn
6-0, you got a kill!
38
FTW: Academy Ruins, Dreadship Reef, Mindslaver, Demonic Pact
2-2. No kills mirror.
40
Asthereal: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Aura Flux, Teferi's Imp
6-0, you got a kill!
46
dte (TO) lava tubes,word of command,golgari rot farm,reito lantern
I always win eventually, Word of Command doesn't stop me. WW
0-6
FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Extract the Truth Boneyard Parley
I can't beat Extract the Truth. LL
6-0
Dooey Ramunap Ruins, Shadowblood Ridge, Check for Traps, Spear Spewer
I have no Traps, so you can't win and I win eventually. WW
0-6
jfb1337 Mercadian Bazaar Brass's Bounty Reito Lantern Word of command
I always win eventually, Word of Command doesn't stop me. WW
0-6
Reeplcheep silkster: Mishra's Workshop, Barbed Wire, Skizzik, Slaughter Pact
Springjack Pasture can gain me life to defeat Barbed Wire, then I win eventually. WW
0-6
Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance
me
Wrath of Pie - Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Guiltfeeder
Hint of Insanity does nothing and therefore Guiltfeeder doesn't work. I win eventually. WW
0-6
RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Dovescape, sorcerous sight, Leyline of Sanctity
If you try to win, I make more Doves than you. I win eventually. WW
0-6
GoblinSmashmaster Teferi's Isle, Tarnished Citadel, Cabal Ritual, Covetous Urge
I can't beat Covetous Urge but you can't win with my Test of Endurance. DD
2-2
BirdsOfParadise Ancient Tomb, Cognivore, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity
Hint of Insanity does nothing and therefore Cognivore doesn't work. I win eventually. WW
0-6
silkster: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Cognivore
Hint of Insanity does nothing and therefore Cognivore doesn't work. I win eventually. WW
0-6
Symbi: City of Brass, Shivan Gorge, Teferi's Isle, Gifted Aetherborn
I love that this has to be exactly Cit of Brass with its triggered damage to work. Springjack Pasture can gain me life to beat your engine, then I win eventually. WW
0-6
FTW: Academy Ruins, Dreadship Reef, Mindslaver, Demonic Pact
Mindslaver is not good against me, and I win Eventually. WW
0-6
Asthereal: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Aura Flux, Teferi's Imp
This took me a minute - it still beats the other target deck and technically wasn't banned (I think we should ban the target decks like we did round 1 going forward). I of course beat this. WW
0-6
Total: 8 points. My deck is clearly too good.
13. FTW: Academy Ruins, Dreadship Reef, Mindslaver, Demonic Pact
I beat the target deck by infinite Mindslaver forcing them to tap the Cabal Pit.
Should have submitted my other deck. Mindslaver is too strong!
1. dte (TO): We can take turns commanding each other, but can't make a loss. DD 2-2
2. FourDogsinaHorseSuit: I can force you to die to Ancient Tomb. WW 0-6
3. Dooey: You exile Mindslaver so neither of us can win. DD 2-2
4. jfb1337: I can drain mana to dodge Word of Command on Pact, so neither of us can lose. DD 2-2
5. Reeplcheep: Pact has no legal targets, so Barbed Wire kills me. LL 6-0
6. Alphastryk: You have a wincon. LL 6-0
7. Wrath of Pie: Mindslaver too strong! I can force you to die to Boseiju while keeping Mindslaver out of my graveyard. WW 0-6
8. RoosterCocoa: You play Leyline so I can't Mindslaver you to force out Dovescape, then neither of us can win. DD 2-2
9. GoblinSmashmaster: You exile Mindslaver so I can't play it. DD 2-2
10. BirdsOfParadise: I can force you to die to Ancient Tomb. WW 0-6
11. silkster: I can force you to die to City of Brass. WW 0-6
12. Symbi: I can force you to die to City of Brass. WW 0-6
14. Asthereal: Imp kills. LL 6-0
28 points (6 loss, 10 draws, 10 win)
FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Extract the Truth Boneyard Parley
dte (TO) lava tubes,word of command,golgari rot farm,reito lantern: You have no creature for me to discard, and you can only make me tomb once.
0-0-2
Dooey Ramunap Ruins, Shadowblood Ridge, Check for Traps, Spear Spewer
I can't beat a t1 creature.
0-2
jfb1337 Mercadian Bazaar Brass's Bounty Reito Lantern Word of command
No one brought a creature
0-0-2
Reeplcheep silkster: Mishra's Workshop, Barbed Wire, Skizzik, Slaughter Pact
If The brain play takes me down to 4 life and takes too long. Plus, that makes the life differential more than 5 so even if I could steal Skizzik, hitting you with it once isn't enough.
0-2
Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance
I can always kill Test, and no one has any other way to win.
0-0-2
Wrath of Pie - Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Guiltfeeder
I can take guilt feeder, but I can't make you bin a card.
0-0-2
RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Dovescape, sorcerous sight, Leyline of Sanctity
I can make quite few doves if you cast Dovescape, so I assume you won't.
0-0-2
GoblinSmashmaster Teferi's Isle, Tarnished Citadel, Cabal Ritual, Covetous Urge
No Creatue for me to steal, no win con for you to Urge.
0-0-2
BirdsOfParadise Ancient Tomb, Cognivore, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity
Extract the Truth is a sorcery, Hint of Insanity is a sorcery. Cognivore has no power for anyone.
0-0-2
silkster: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Cognivore
Extract the Truth is a sorcery. Cognivore has no power.
0-0-2
Symbi: City of Brass, Shivan Gorge, Teferi's Isle, Gifted Aetherborn
My combo requires me to tap Tomb 8 times, so if you can Activate Shivan Gorge 4 times before I can attack with aetherborn I will lose. By my count: T3, you discard aetherborn, I go to 3. T5, I go to 2. T7, I go to 1, T8, I cast parlay and reanimate your aetherborn. t9, you either untap and kill me, or I untap and gain 2 life, winning eventually
1-1
FTW: Academy Ruins, Dreadship Reef, Mindslaver, Demonic Pact
I have no answer for the world's slowest most methodical Mindslaver loop. You'll make me tap Tomb 10 times and die.
0-2
Asthereal: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Aura Flux, Teferi's Imp
Lmao, I targeted your deck so I better beat it. I reanimate the Imp at 4 life, you die slowly over the next 40 turns.
2-0
3-7-16
37 Points
True, but since I can't beat a goat: It's DD not LL.
Agreed, updated spreadsheet
I just took the worst deck that beat me last round to beat my deck.
Reeplcheep Mishra's Workshop, Barbed Wire, Skizzik, Slaughter Pact
dte (TO) lava tubes,word of command,golgari rot farm,reito lantern
I thought we specifically said you can’t play cards in the target deck?
FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Extract the Truth Boneyard Parley
You hurt yourself too much to use parley. WW 0-6
Dooey Ramunap Ruins, Shadowblood Ridge, Check for Traps, Spear Spewer
I have an instant for traps. LL 6-0
jfb1337 Mercadian Bazaar Brass's Bounty Reito Lantern Word of command
I thought we can’t use cards in the target decks??
Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack vs Pasture Test of Endurance
I can’t beat a single point of lifegain. LL 6-0
Wrath of Pie - Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Guiltfeeder
I have 2 uncastable cards. LL 6-0
RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Dovescape, sorcerous sight, Leyline of Sanctity
Silos into sight is fast enough. LL 6-0
GoblinSmashmaster Teferi's Isle, Tarnished Citadel, Cabal Ritual, Covetous Urge
WD 1-4
BirdsOfParadise Ancient Tomb, Cognivore, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity
WW 0-6
silkster: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Cognivore
WW 0-6
Symbi: City of Brass, Shivan Gorge, Teferi's Isle, Gifted Aetherborn
Lifelink threat LL 6-0
FTW: Academy Ruins, Dreadship Reef, Mindslaver, Demonic Pact
WW 0-6
Asthereal: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Aura Flux, Teferi's Imp
My clock is slow enough you make up for the self damage LL 0-6
dte (TO) lava tubes,word of command,golgari rot farm,reito lantern
DD 2-2
FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Extract the Truth Boneyard Parley
DD 2-2
Dooey Ramunap Ruins, Shadowblood Ridge, Check for Traps, Spear Spewer
LL 6-0 - you exile WoC
jfb1337 Mercadian Bazaar Brass's Bounty Reito Lantern Word of command
that's me!
Reeplcheep silkster: Mishra's Workshop, Barbed Wire, Skizzik, Slaughter Pact
LL 6-0 - barbed wire wins
Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance
LL 6-0 - test of endurance wins
Wrath of Pie - Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Guiltfeeder
DD 2-2 - I don't put anything in my grave while you don't put enough counters on your land for me to use
RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Dovescape, sorcerous sight, Leyline of Sanctity
DD 2-2 - I win if you dovescape, so you don't charge up your land
GoblinSmashmaster Teferi's Isle, Tarnished Citadel, Cabal Ritual, Covetous Urge
DD 2-2 - You take my WoC.
BirdsOfParadise Ancient Tomb, Cognivore, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity
DD 2-2 - I don't put anything in my grave while you don't put enough counters on your land for me to use
silkster: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Cognivore
DD 2-2 - I don't put anything in my grave while you don't put enough counters on your land for me to use
Symbi: City of Brass, Shivan Gorge, Teferi's Isle, Gifted Aetherborn
LL 6-0 - Shivan gorge kills me, you have no spells for me to force you to use city with
FTW: Academy Ruins, Dreadship Reef, Mindslaver, Demonic Pact
DD 2-2 - I can never make you play pact
Asthereal: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Aura Flux, Teferi's Imp
LL 6-0 - Imp kills me
10L 16D = 46
GoblinSmashmaster Results for Round "Still can't win"
dte (TO) lava tubes,word of command,golgari rot farm,reito lantern
Still can't win 2-2
FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Extract the Truth Boneyard Parley
Still can't win 2-2
Dooey Ramunap Ruins, Shadowblood Ridge, Check for Traps, Spear Spewer
Goblin smash!!! 6-0
jfb1337 Mercadian Bazaar Brass's Bounty Reito Lantern Word of command
Still can't win 2-2
Reeplcheep: Mishra's Workshop, Barbed Wire, Skizzik, Slaughter Pact
Barbed wire 6-0
Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance
Still can't win 2-2
Wrath of Pie - Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Guiltfeeder
Still can't win 2-2
RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Dovescape, sorcerous sight, Leyline of Sanctity
Still can't win 2-2
GoblinSmashmaster Teferi's Isle, Tarnished Citadel, Cabal Ritual, Covetous Urge
That's me again!
BirdsOfParadise Ancient Tomb, Cognivore, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity
Still can't win 2-2
silkster: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Cognivore
Still can't win 2-2
Symbi: City of Brass, Shivan Gorge, Teferi's Isle, Gifted Aetherborn
Aetherborn smash :( 0-6
FTW: Academy Ruins, Dreadship Reef, Mindslaver, Demonic Pact
Still can't win 2-2
Asthereal: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Aura Flux, Teferi's Imp
Imp smash :( 0-6
Total: 30 points
1. dte (TO) lava tubes,word of command,golgari rot farm,reito lantern:
No wincon. WW 0-6, 0 total
2. FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Extract the Truth Boneyard Parley:
The combo costs 16 life to execute and happens on T8. I can deal 4 damage by T9. This means the aetherborn can swing on T9 and the result is decided by who goes first. WL 3-3, 3 total
3. Dooey Ramunap Ruins, Shadowblood Ridge, Check for Traps, Spear Spewer:
I have no instants. WW 0-6, 3 total
4. jfb1337 Mercadian Bazaar Brass's Bounty Reito Lantern Word of command:
No wincon. WW 0-6, 3 total
5. Reeplcheep: Mishra's Workshop, Barbed Wire, Skizzik, Slaughter Pact:
If you play barbed wire immediately I can ping you to death as I can activate my gorge when we are both at 1. If you hold the wire, I will always have a window where we are both at 1 life where I can activate the gorge if the wire was played when we are at 2 or more life. When we are at 2 life I wait until your end step to ping, then if you play the wire next turn I can untap and ping you in response to the wire trigger. WW 0-6, 3 total
6. Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance:
You gain life. LL 6-0, 9 total
7. Wrath of Pie - Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Guiltfeeder:
Ok that's just nuts. WW 0-6, 9 total
8. RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Dovescape, sorcerous sight, Leyline of Sanctity:
I manage to accidentally lose to this by not casting any spells. LL 6-0, 15 total
9. GoblinSmashmaster Teferi's Isle, Tarnished Citadel, Cabal Ritual, Covetous Urge:
You choose a nonland card. Oof. Also you can't cast Aetherborn. WW 0-6, 15 total
10. BirdsOfParadise Ancient Tomb, Cognivore, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity:
I have no instants. WW 0-6, 15 total
11. silkster: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Hint of Insanity, Cognivore:
I still have no instants. WW 0-6, 15 total
12. Symbi: City of Brass, Shivan Gorge, Teferi's Isle, Gifted Aetherborn:
That's me!
13. FTW: Academy Ruins, Dreadship Reef, Mindslaver, Demonic Pact:
I die to my own city of brass. LL 6-0, 21 total
14. Asthereal: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Aura Flux, Teferi's Imp:
I die to the imp. LL 6-0, 27 total
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