FTW: Mercadian Bazaar, Wild Evocation, Elturel Survivors, Gravitational Shift GT NA
If you choose not to play lands, I can't win. I can force out lands with Wild Evocation, but then I must play Gravitational Shift and cannot win unless you have 3 or more lands.
1. dte: You just barely keep a 3rd land to lose to a 1/4. Edit: Illegal.
2. FourDogsinaHorseSuit: I play my creature first to avoid losing to Biorhythm, then Wild Evocation makes you die to Pact or Biorhythm. WW 0-6
3. Reeplcheep: You're much slower so we stare. I almost played Blackblade last time, choosing Empyrial for corner cases (doesn't double up with Green Scarab, lost to enchantment hate). DD 2-2
4. Asthereal: I could race Barbed Wire, so you do nothing. DD 2-2
5. Wrath of Pie: Neither of us can win. DD 2-2
6. RoosterCocoa: You could store enough mana to kill my 1/4 before it kills you. I'm forced to Wild Evocation, causing your artifact to die. DD 2-2
7. BirdsOfParadise: OTD T3 Elemental kills me before I can cast T6 creature. OTP I could kill it at 4 life and win, so you do nothing and I can't win. DD 2-2
8. silkster: Much better version of what I was trying to do. You have the 2nd land to lose to your own card. WW 0-6
9. jfb1337: Neither of us can win. DD 2-2
10. Alphastryk: Neither of us can win. DD 2-2
11. Symbi: Neither of us can win. DD 2-2
12. GoblinSmashmaster: Neither of us can win. DD 2-2
18 points (18 draws, 4 wins)
I wanted to submit another deck, but could not confirm it beats one of the target decks, so I replaced it last minute with this deck that can't win but also can't lose. The other deck had both City of Brass and Dreadship Reef... did not even realize it was illegal for that reason too!
Last edited by FTW; 09-06-2022 at 10:54 PM.
dte (TO) dark depths, contested war zone, city of brass, veldt GT23
Illegal; would have been LL 6-0.
FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Pact of the Titan Biorhythm GT9
LL 6-0
Reeplcheep Imperial Mask, Fountain of Cho, Sustaining Spirit, Blackblade Reforged GT451
WW 0-6 - you're slower and don't disrupt me
Asthereal Island of Wak-Wak, Mishra's workshop, Barbed Wire, Leviathan GT20
LL 6-0 - I'm not able to gain life before turn 24
Wrath of Pie Mana Confluence, Mage-Ring Network, Rusting Golem, Hidetsugu's Second Rite GT around 11
LL 6-0 - I'm not able to gain life before turn 24
RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Mechanized Production, Naked Singularity, Pemmin's Aura GT186
LL 6-0 - you're faster
BirdsOfParadise Desecration Elemental, Eureka, Havenwood Battleground, Teferi's Isle GT6
WW 0-6 assuming this is legal, which I don't see how
silkster Dwarven Hold, Wild Evocation, Rivalry, Sorrow's Path GT20
WW 0-6 - clever deck. You can't win vs my deck with only 1 land in it.
jfb1337 Icatian Store Test of Endurance Archangel's Light Codex Shredder GT212
That's me!
Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance GT153
LL 6-0 - you're faster
Symbi Drain Life, Brass's Bounty, Mercadian Bazzar, Reito Lantern GT221
DD 2-2 - Appears to be a draw, as you point out and I analyse further in a later post.
GoblinSmashmaster Volrath's Stronghold, Molten Slagheap, Goblin Commando, Aetherflux Reservoir GT242
WW 0-6 - you're slower
FTW Mercadian Bazaar, Wild Evocation, Elturel Survivors, Gravitational Shift GT20
DD 2-2 - if I play my land, you beat me with survivors. So I don't play it, and if you play evocation to force out my land then you can't beat me due to shift and I win. So you do nothing too.
Total: 8L 4D 6W = 28
Last edited by jfb1337; 09-06-2022 at 07:42 PM.
GoblinSmashmaster Results for Round "Can win"
dte (TO) dark depths, contested war zone, city of brass, veldt
20/20 smash! 6-0
FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Pact of the Titan Biorhythm
Titan smash! 6-0
Reeplcheep Imperial Mask, Fountain of Cho, Sustaining Spirit, Blackblade Reforged
Mask 2-2
Asthereal Island of Wak-Wak, Mishra's workshop, Barbed Wire, Leviathan
Goblin smash :( 0-6
Wrath of Pie Mana Confluence, Mage-Ring Network, Rusting Golem, Hidetsugu's Second Rite
Golem smash! 6-0
RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Mechanized Production, Naked Singularity, Pemmin's Aura
Goblins naked 6-0
BirdsOfParadise Desecration Elemental, Eureka, Havenwood Battleground, Teferi's Isle
Goblin stare 2-2
silkster Dwarven Hold, Wild Evocation, Rivalry, Sorrow's Path
Rivals 2-2
jfb1337 Icatian Store Test of Endurance Archangel's Light Codex Shredder
Archangel smash! 6-0
Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance
Goat smash! 6-0
Symbi]Deck Drain Life, Brass's Bounty, Mercadian Bazzar, Reito Lantern
Goblin smash :( 0-6
GoblinSmashmaster Volrath's Stronghold, Molten Slagheap, Goblin Commando, Aetherflux Reservoir
That's me, on Goblin combo!!
FTW Mercadian Bazaar, Wild Evocation, Elturel Survivors, Gravitational Shift
Goblin stare 2-2
Total: 36 points
Last edited by GoblinSmashmaster; 09-06-2022 at 11:34 PM.
1. dte (TO) dark depths, contested war zone, city of brassveldt GT23
Illegal deck
2. FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Pact of the Titan Biorhythm GT9
I can't get enough mana to even drain life for two before I die. LL 6-0, 6 total.
3. Reeplcheep Imperial Mask, Fountain of Cho, Sustaining Spirit, Blackblade Reforged GT451
Objection! I can't win through your imperial mask as drain life targets. However, I can still kill the spirit and prevent your win. DD 2-2, 8 total
4. Asthereal Island of Wak-Wak, Mishra's workshop, Barbed Wire, Leviathan GT20
I can't even drain life for 1 before T20. LL 6-0, 14 total
5. Wrath of Pie Mana Confluence, Mage-Ring Network, Rusting Golem, Hidetsugu's Second Rite GT around 11
Still can't drain life for 1 before you kill me. LL 6-0, 20 total
6. RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Mechanized Production, Naked Singularity, Pemmin's Aura GT186
I'm slower. LL 6-0, 26 total
7. BirdsOfParadise Desecration Elemental, Eureka, Havenwood Battleground, Teferi's Isle GT6
This deck is legal as the mindslaver deck is one turn too slow to cast mindslaver and demonic pact has that pesky "lose the game" clause. However, my deck is not too slow. WW 0-6, 26 total
8. silkster Dwarven Hold, Wild Evocation, Rivalry, Sorrow's Path GT20
You can't win but I can. WW 0-6, 26 total
9. jfb1337 Icatian Store Test of Endurance Archangel's Light Codex Shredder GT212
Should have played solvedi digger. Edit: You can mill me with codex shredder to prevent me from redrawing brass's bounty. I can counteract this by using two activations of lantern, however this means I will need a 14-turn cycle instead of an 11-turn cycle to cast brass's bounty. This is slow enough to allow you to cast archangel's light, activate codex shredder, and cast archangels light again every second cycle, when I am tapped out from casting brass's bounty. This allows you to keep pace with my wincon, even if I try storing enough mana to cast brass's bounty the turn after to dodge codex shredder. DD 2-2, 28 total
10. Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance GT153
I'm slower. LL 6-0, 34 total
11. Symbi Drain Life, Brass's Bounty, Mercadian Bazzar, Reito Lantern GT221
That's me!
12. GoblinSmashmaster Volrath's Stronghold, Molten Slagheap, Goblin Commando, Aetherflux Reservoir GT242
You're slower but your lifegain outpaces my wincon. Edit: However my lifegain also outpaces your wincon. DD 2-2, 36 total
13. FTW Mercadian Bazaar, Wild Evocation, Elturel Survivors, Gravitational Shift GT20
Staring contest! DD 2-2, 38 total
Last edited by Symbi; 09-07-2022 at 02:48 AM.
Direct link to round 4 google sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=951981841
By the way, with two illegal entries in round 3, the quotient in the sheet should be 11 instead of 13. I fixed it now.
dte (TO) dark depths, contested war zone, city of brass, veldt
4 lands is smart. But City of Brass is banned. :/
FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Pact of the Titan Biorhythm
0-6, pactOh, you cast the pact yourself on upkeep and the Biorhythm kills me. 6-0. Super lucky for me.
Reeplcheep Imperial Mask, Fountain of Cho, Sustaining Spirit, Blackblade Reforged
6-0, I think. I can force out the Spirit before you're ready to pay for it, but then I would die to my own Rivalry.
Asthereal Island of Wak-Wak, Mishra's workshop, Barbed Wire, Leviathan
6-0, I think. I have no attack if you hold the Island. If I try to play out Evocation, you decide on the randomness so you get Leviathan first and I can never do damage.
Wrath of Pie Mana Confluence, Mage-Ring Network, Rusting Golem, Hidetsugu's Second Rite
2-2, If you try to get charge counters, I can just play Rivalry alone and win. I'm realizing now that I should have used a two-land charge system. I thought someone's win condition might have been Rishadan Port, so I outsmarted myself by playing around that.
RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Mechanized Production, Naked Singularity, Pemmin's Aura
6-0. I actually have Naked Singularity + Mechanized Production in my gauntlet. Great minds! Same as against Sustaining Spirit: I can force your combo out before you can pay for it, but then die to my own Rivalry.
BirdsOfParadise Desecration Elemental, Eureka, Havenwood Battleground, Teferi's Isle
6-0. You play Eureka and Elemental, and I have to cast something. But anything I cast will force my whole hand out, and you have 0.5 lands to my 2. I had a Desecration Elemental + Rishadan Port deck in my gauntlet this week, but the fact that the Elemental could beat the Mindslaver deck was throwing me off, cause the deck was designed to beat the Wastes and the City of Brass.
silkster Dwarven Hold, Wild Evocation, Rivalry, Sorrow's Path
Me, trying my best not to have a win condition and hoping that no one plays Pacts of any kind.
jfb1337 Icatian Store Test of Endurance Archangel's Light Codex Shredder
6-0. Playing any of my spells kills me, so I don't.
Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance
0-6. I wondered if we'd see more Islands of Wak-Wak. I thought it was silly at first, but then I almost played it myself this week. Then I almost played a flying threat, like a real creature like Rustwing Falcon, but I didn't think that many people would play it.
Symbi]Deck Drain Life, Brass's Bounty, Mercadian Bazzar, Reito Lantern
6-0. I can do nothing, so I lose slowly.
GoblinSmashmaster Volrath's Stronghold, Molten Slagheap, Goblin Commando, Aetherflux Reservoir
2-2. Disagreement here. If you play out both lands, I can kill you with Rivalry alone, not playing Invocation. So you can't win. I still can't win either.
For a moment I thought Goblin Commando was Skirk Commando, and I wondered what you could have been thinking, but as I was searching for it I realized that it must be "uncastable" on an empty board just like Flametongue Kavu. A very clever use of a Goblin. I appreciate staying true to your name while staying on-format.
FTW Mercadian Bazaar, Wild Evocation, Elturel Survivors, Gravitational Shift
6-0. Ooh, I like this version. I had to read Elturel Survivors, and then I had to read another card with myriad to make sure it did what I thought it did. Then I thought I knew what Gravitational Shift did but it didn't make sense, but then I figured out the careful -2/-0 and +2/+0 balance. Then I wondered how you beat either of the target decks, then realized it was the exact same way that I did! I don't have enough lands for the Survivors to do damage, so normally I'd do nothing, but you can Wild Evocation out my Rivalry and kill me with it.
2W, 4D, 16L for 52 points. 8 more points if I play a two-land charge system, but I was too worried about Pacts to realize it. Luckily, most people went with one-land win conditions, which makes sense, cause you have to include your other terrible terrible cards.
Asthereal has a fast clock, but you can beat it by waiting until you're at 1 life and casting the Spirit to save yourself. Then Asthereal dies. Since Barbed Wire loses, Asthereal waits and loses in 451 turns instead.
Desecration Elemental is amazingly fast. It lands on turn 3 and kills on turn 6, while Mindslaver lands on turn 7.
I haven't yet had time for my full scoring, but quickly:
How is my deck legal? (quoted from my submission to dte)
My deck defeats the target deck Academy Ruins, Dreadship Reef, Mindslaver, Demonic Pact. The target deck can cast Mindslaver no sooner than T7. My deck will play T1 Teferi's Isle, T2 Havenwood Battleground, T3 Eureka -> Desecration Elemental, T4 swing (12 life remaining), T5 swing (4 life remaining), T6 swing lethal. This is fast enough on the play or on the draw. The target deck gets no benefit from putting anything into play with Eureka. If the target deck kills Desecration Elemental by casting Demonic Pact, then the target deck eventually dies to its own Pact. My deck defeats 4x Wastes in the obvious way.
@FourDogs:
>>> LL-On t3 You cast Eureka and put in your 8/8. I can kill it at any time but that means dying to pact.
I think DD. I can't win if you hold back Brain in Jar and use it to kill 8/8.
@FTW:
>>> 7. BirdsOfParadise: OTD T3 Elemental kills me before I can cast T6 creature. OTP I could kill it at 4 life and win, so you do nothing and I can't win. DL 4-1
[incorrect]I think I LL. If I go Eureka, you drop Wild Evo. On your turn, you cast a spell using Wild Evo, 8/8 Ele dies. You kill me at your leisure with your creature. If I hold Ele back, you eventually cast Wild Evo, same result.[/incorrect]
Edit: No, I think Silkster is right. If Wild Evo’s randomness works in the direction of causing you to lose (or preventing you from winning), then we DD because my best play is to do nothing and you can’t win against that.
@GoblinSmash
>>>BirdsOfParadise Desecration Elemental, Eureka, Havenwood Battleground, Teferi's Isle
Elemental smash! 6-0
I think I LL. I goldfish T6, you can always cast Reservoir T5, so if I play 8/8 Ele I will just lose OTP & OTD. But if I hold it back, you accumulate infinite mana and then you deploy Reservoir and start using combo, always with the option to use Gobbo within 2 turns since you have infinite mana stored; so there's no timing window where 8/8 kills you.
Last edited by BirdsOfParadise; 09-07-2022 at 12:01 AM.
Ah that's interesting that we have similar cycles and disrupt each other.
So first of all I definitely can't win, since you *can* always hold up 3 mana to prevent me from gaining life. The question is can you win; which you could if you could make treasures sufficiently fast.
When I have light in hand and shredder in yard:
- I'd rather not play light as you tuck shredder and I'm down 8 mana to your 3
- You'd rather not tuck shredder early as I could then use it to disrupt your recursion
- If you play bounty, your best bet is to spend 13 mana; to play bounty + tuck shredder (so it costs me a lot more mana to gain life) and bounty. I then replay shredder. I can mill bounty but you re-tuck on your upkeep for an additional 3 mana.
When I have shredder on board and light in hand:
- In order for me to make progress / try to outpace you, I'd need to play light, crack shredder, and play light again. This costs me 21 mana. I only need to do this once per 2 treasures you make though. And I can only do it effectively when you're tapped out.
- In order for you to make progress, you need to play bounty, then tuck it. It seems like the best way to do so is across 2 turns - play it, then tuck it on your upkeep (which you need to commit 6 mana to for 2 tucks; even if I don't mill it; as if you only commit 3 mana then I *do* mill it) - this costs 13 mana total (but 15 effective turns).
So yeah it looks like I can keep pace with you gaining 2 life for every 2 treasure you make. I'm not fully sure all the potential lines have been explored but it does seem like it is indeed a draw.
Wrath of Pie Mana Confluence, Mage-Ring Network, Rusting Golem, Hidetsugu's Second Rite GT around 11
FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Pact of the Titan Biorhythm GT9 - DD
Reeplcheep Imperial Mask, Fountain of Cho, Sustaining Spirit, Blackblade Reforged GT451 - LL - Imperial Mask has this nasty thing called relevant text. Guessing you needed it to beat Slaver lock.
Asthereal Island of Wak-Wak, Mishra's workshop, Barbed Wire, Leviathan GT20 - WW
RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Mechanized Production, Naked Singularity, Pemmin's Aura GT186 - LL - Pemmin's Aura should keep you from ever going to 10 life.
BirdsOfParadise Desecration Elemental, Eureka, Havenwood Battleground, Teferi's Isle - GT6 - DD
silkster Dwarven Hold, Wild Evocation, Rivalry, Sorrow's Path GT20 - DD - Wild Evocation to beat Wastes via Rivalry is clever. Wild Evocation to force out Demonic Pact is even more clever.
jfb1337 Icatian Store Test of Endurance Archangel's Light Codex Shredder GT212 - WW
Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance GT153 - LL - Turns out a rusty golem and someone's second rite is stopped by a mere goat.
Symbi Drain Life, Brass's Bounty, Mercadian Bazzar, Reito Lantern GT221 - WW
GoblinSmashmaster Volrath's Stronghold, Molten Slagheap, Goblin Commando, Aetherflux Reservoir GT242 - LL - Also stopped by a suicidal goblin.
FTW Mercadian Bazaar, Wild Evocation, Elturel Survivors, Gravitational Shift GT20 - DD - Guess dte has to ban Wild Evocation, he won't be happy about people gaming the 4x Wastes hand.
8l8d = 32 points
I probably should not have played to lose to self-damaging lands in a round which had one of them banned. (This is part of why I wanted the longer list, although then I guess someone wouldn't have found an actual application for Archangel's Light.)
If Wild Evo’s randomness works against FTW’s game-winning prospects (and for FTW’s point-scoring prospects), then I believe you’re correct. Edited.
That said, do I control the Wild Evo triggers on my own upkeep or no? If yes, does that randomness work against my prospects of winning? If so, I LL. I think the answer is no but I’m looking for clarification.
My understanding is that since I control the thing that is most proximally causing the randomness (here, the enchantment), my opponent chooses how it resolves for both of us. In Ostracize v Emrakul, it is the Emrakul that causes the shuttle. Also that after casting Mnemonic Nexus my opponent would choose the orders of both libraries.
It is definitely not the owner. Otherwise Mana Crypt + Donate does not work (under our rules it has in past seasons).
I think it is against the controller of the spell or ability though.
Hymn to Tourach at opponent -> opponent chooses and discards 2 cards
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn to your graveyard -> your library arranges in the worst possible order for you
Mana Crypt -> deals controller 3 damage each upkeep
We haven't had many instances of a card causing both players to have random effects. But I think
Mana Clash -> caster takes infinite damage
Timetwister -> your library arranges in worst order, opponent's library arranges in best order (if optimal order depends on the other, then it's the joint configuration worst for Timetwister's caster)
In this case it means if BoP does nothing, I can't force Desecration Elemental or Eureka out because Wild Evocation would play the 2 lands first (then I run out of spells and lose to Elemental). However if BoP casts Eureka -> Elemental, I can drop Wild Evocation and cast a spell fast enough to kill Elemental both OTP and OTD (I missed that), but my creature is too small to win. DD 2-2
Unfortunately Wild Evocation and Elturel Survivors are both red! If they are different colors, I would have to play Wild Evocation first, Gravitational Shift is forced out, and then I have no clock unless opponent has 3+ lands. That was my goal. It would LL to everything except your deck and the Pact deck. The +2/+0 helps lose to Teferi's Imp and other expected flyers.
But I can cast Elturel Survivors without Evocation. If opponent plays any land, I have a 1/4 threat. Too fast! Just about every deck is forced to sandbag land and do nothing. It's a whole pile of draws. So I kept this idea on the backburner. But my main idea didn't quite beat the target deck (and had illegal cards anyway), so I panic-submitted this at the deadline.
Your Rivalry tech was a much cleaner way to attack the same concept. Nice deck!
Last edited by FTW; 09-07-2022 at 12:30 PM.
Thanks, all.
On the same page now, BoP vs FTW = DD.
Me: BirdsOfParadise Desecration Elemental, Eureka, Havenwood Battleground, Teferi's Isle
dte (TO) dark depths, contested war zone, city of brass, veldt
Illegal deck. Shucks.
FourDogsinaHorseSuit Ancient Tomb Brain in a Jar Pact of the Titan Biorhythm
You hold back Brain to kill 8/8 if I play 8/8, so I don't.
DD (2 pt)
Reeplcheep Imperial Mask, Fountain of Cho, Sustaining Spirit, Blackblade Reforged
You can do your plan while always keeping a spell handy (first the equipment, later the mask).
LL (2 + 6 = 8 pt)
Asthereal Island of Wak-Wak, Mishra's workshop, Barbed Wire, Leviathan
You hold back Wire to kill 8/8 in case I play 8/8, so I don't.
DD (8 + 2 = 10 pt)
Wrath of Pie Mana Confluence, Mage-Ring Network, Rusting Golem, Hidetsugu's Second Rite
You hold back Golem to kill 8/8 in case I play 8/8, so I don't.
DD (10 + 2 = 12 pt)
RoosterCocoa Sand Silos, Mechanized Production, Naked Singularity, Pemmin's Aura
If I play 8/8, you kill it with Pemmin's Aura, then win at your leisure. If I don't play 8/8, you can also win. Jaw-droppingly slow goldfish you've got there!
LL (12 + 6 = 18 pt)
silkster Dwarven Hold, Wild Evocation, Rivalry, Sorrow's Path
You have several lines that all result in me winning.
WW (still 18 pt)
jfb1337 Icatian Store Test of Endurance Archangel's Light Codex Shredder
If I'm not mistaken, you can proceed with your plan while always keeping a spell handy to kill 8/8. (Store one million counters while holding back Codex at first, if necessary.)
LL (18 + 6 = 24 pt)
Alphastryk Island of Wak-Wak, Molten Slagheap, Springjack Pasture Test of Endurance
Looks like you can't cast your spell very quickly, so 8/8 kills you.
WW (still 24 pt)
Symbi]Deck Drain Life, Brass's Bounty, Mercadian Bazzar, Reito Lantern
You can hold Reito Lantern as 8/8 removal until you have one million storage counters, then you can do your plan while always being able to remove 8/8.
LL (24 + 6 = 30 pt)
GoblinSmashmaster Volrath's Stronghold, Molten Slagheap, Goblin Commando, Aetherflux Reservoir
You can go Reservoir in time to kill 8/8 if I rush out the 8/8. If I don't rush it out, you can do your plan without leaving open a timing window for 8/8 by first stockpiling one million storage counters.
LL (30 + 6 = 36 pt)
FTW Mercadian Bazaar, Wild Evocation, Elturel Survivors, Gravitational Shift
As detailed above, DD.
DD (36 + 2 = 38 pt)
Total = 38 pt --- and hopefully an achievement for fastest goldfish submitted so far? ;-)
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