Wait are the flailers legal again?
Question: At the end of R5 (see post #403 on p. 21), I had 18.2 and Symbi had 16.8, so I was leading by 1.4. In R6, Symbi and I gained equal points, but the lead has narrowed to 1.0. How can that be?
Sometimes an error gets corrected in a spreadsheet and then numbers stored in other locations (for example in post #403) don’t get updated because that would be a lot of trouble. That is, maybe I was only ever up by 1.4 because of an error. Could that have happened?
Edit: Okay, sounds good, dte. I see now that Asthereal pointed out an error in the BoP/dte scores for R5 after you posted the standings for R5. Four points divided by twelve players would account for the discrepancy, with some rounding error. Case closed.
There was a round when there were some disqualifications, but the denominators didn't get updated, so all the points were artificially low. I went back and changed them, but that happened after the round report was published. Depending on how long ago you were looking from, maybe it was that.
It looks like they are legal. dte was unafraid of flailers with the added requirement of beating 4x Wastes, which was debatable. Now every deck-to-beat has a storage land, so I'm guessing that he's considering them truly unplayable unless someone comes up with brilliant new tech, something which he probably figures should be rewarded anyway. It seems reasonable to me.
It seems that the banned list in the google sheet hasn't been updated. Can we get a confirmation that the banned list is this list from post 2 on page 1 plus all cards in all target decks?
How do you beat Impatience?
You can't cast Change of Heart. No legal target.
Varchild's War-Riders costs 3 life. If you don't pay the upkeep, you lose to Impatience first. If you pay some upkeeps and attack, opponent will get more 1/1s than you can handle with Change of Heart.
If Impatience deck plays Impatience, dte’s deck waits until the turn when it’s at 6 life.
dte deck [6 life]: Cast War-Riders, drop to 3 life
Impatience deck [6 life]: Drop to 4 life
dte deck [3 life]: One token created. Attack. Impatience deck doesn’t block because 3 damage equals 2 damage when you’re at 4 life and all damage is in increments of 2 or 3. Impatience at 1 life from combat damage, dte deck at 1 life from Impatience.
Impatience deck [1 life]: Wants to attack, but dte casts Change of Heart. Pass, die from Impatience.
If Impatience deck doesn’t play Impatience, dte has infinite mana to use.
I updated the second post with the banned cards, snd corrected the fireball/ fall of the titans thingy - no clue how that one happened!
And in my calculations, I was saving life by casting change of heart twice on riders after combat. But from the two posts above, it seemed that there were a few lines :)
Ah right. I missed that indeed. I'll try to add it to my decks.
Ah yes, the danger of cool things. It's very real in MtG.
In chess too, by the way. It's one of the rules I teach.
I'll check my scores briefly tomorrow. I think they're mostly correct, but perhaps something slipped through.
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Exactly. Also, I do think they could be a healthy predator of storage land.deck. If they almost automatically lose to any deck that can make only 4 manas or less, I do not see that as overpowered, and we do not want to see only storage land decks.
My vision of the metagame would then be that there are at least these generic archetypes among a few unclassable:
Impatience-like (all that deals damage to everyone over the course of 10-30 turns, just 1-2 more damage to opponent)
slow (storage land + cumulative upkeep or very expensive loop)
painful big manabase
flailers.
Impatience beats (0-6) flailers, drawish vs slow, lose to painful.
slow beats painful, drawish vs impatience-like, lose to flailers
painful beats impatience, drawish vs flailers, lose to slow
flailers beats slow, drawish vs painful manabase, lose to impatience.
It is very coarse-grained, but seems equilibrated to me.
Confirmed. And I also added the line in post 2 saying that any card in a target deck is banned for the current round.
Was also one of my main problems in go for a long time.
A meta in a community game where you're trying to breed creativity seems pretty dull, TBH.
I can play rock paper scissors anywhere.
My scores are correct. Deck might be close in terms of deadline though.
Last edited by Asthereal; 09-26-2022 at 11:01 AM.
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In our week off just before the end of the season, it's probably a good time to vote on next season. Here are the options I have in mind, which are intended to make new cards and new strategies playable. Feel free to vote for one or to rank as many as you like.
Option 1, WUBRG: Each player starts with in their mana pool that doesn't empty.
Along with
a: Ban all cards from all decks scoring more than 3 round points.
b: Ban all cards from the top 3 decks (including those tied for third).
c: Selective bans to remove dominant strategies at my discretion to keep the banlist small.
Option 2, "Frontbuild": Each round has a target deck which you must go LL against. I chose the name to mirror backbuild as it's a similar legality requirement.
This has slightly more complicated subchoices.
A: Keep the same target deck for the whole league with ban strategy a, b, or c.
B: Use the lowest scoring legal deck from the previous round and apply ban strategy a, b, cor d: no bans.
C: Have a premade list of decks to LL against and no bans. (Possibly just one from each person who would like to submit one; we have about the right number of people.)
Season Length: You can just suggest a number, but I'm thinking either short≈8 or long≈12.
For WUBRG, I like 1a the best. For Frontbuild, I like each of 2Aa, 2Bd, and 2C. But of course, I'm okay with any of the things I'm suggesting. And whichever option isn't chosen for season 14 will likely be chosen for season 16.
I've played this game before where the ban list is every card used by anyone in any previous round. Best with a short season since the ban list grows really really fast, but it definitely shakes up the meta.
My favourite would be 2Bd with the additional rider of banning cards in the current deck to get beaten by. With only 1 target deck copycats would be a large problem.
1c, but all are good to me!
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