FTW, Rushwood Grove, Vesuva, Wolfcaller's Howl, Reality Smasher GT NA
I can only win if I can force you to play a colorless land, copy it, and cast Reality Smasher.
Any non-colorless land or artifact mana = draw or loss.
1. dte(TO): You can play only Horizon Canopy to stop my wolves, denying me colorless mana. DD 2-2
2. Reeplcheep: You can play only Veldt to stop my wolves, denying me colorless mana. DD 2-2
3. jfb1337: I kill Flailers but can't make a threat. DD 2-2
4. Dooey: I can't stop you. LL 6-0
5. RoosterCocoa: You can play only Woodlot to stop my wolves, denying me colorless mana. DD 2-2
6. Symbi: I can't cast my threat with shop mana. LL 6-0
7. FourDogsinaHorseSuit: I can actually beat this. Oops. WW 0-6
8. BirdsOfParadise: Lol. I was torn between TKS and Reality Smasher, couldn't tell which would win more. DD 2-2
9. GoblinSmashmaster: I can't stop you. LL 6-0
10. Silkster: Nice tech! But I can't stop you. LL 6-0
34 points (8 loss, 10 draw, 2 win)
dte(TO), Dreadship Reef, horizon canopy, Broodstar, mortivore, GT c. 35
2-0
0
Reeplcheep, Dark Depths, Boseiju, who shelters all, Seraph Sanctuary, Veldt GT: 23
2-0
0
jfb1337, Lotus Bloom, Conjurer's Bauble, Flailing Soldier, Obsidian Charmaw GT: 15
0-0-2 I can kill soldier, but if I do, then I can't win.
2
Dooey, Subterranean Hangar, Lich's Mastery, Serra's Sanctum, Lion Sash GT30
2-0I count it taking you exactly 9 turns to cast a lion sash, which is exactly the speed needed to beat my combo. Meaning whomever is on the play wins.
RoosterCocoa, Grand Coliseum, Hickory Woodlot, Reito Lantern, Ajani, Sleeper Agent, GT: 27
2-0
Symbi, Lotus Bloom, Mishra's Workshop, Mana Vault, Near-Death Experience, GT:24
2-0
FourDogsinaHorseSuit, Ancient Tomb, Brain in a Jar, Pact of the Titan, Biorhythm, GT9
that's me
5
BirdsOfParadise, Hollow Trees, Thought-Knot Seer, Vesuva, Wolfcaller's Howl
0-2 My tomb will let you Vesuva a way to cast seer, but if I don't play it I'm going to get Wolfcaller's Howl'd. Well. Unless I pact.
11
FTW, Rushwood Grove, Vesuva, Wolfcaller's Howl, Reality Smasher
0-2 I just talked about this!
17
GoblinSmashmaster, Mercadian Bazaar, Reito Lantern, Boggart Shenanigans, Goblin Assassin, GT183
2-0, i think?
Silkster, Chancellor of the Tangle, Eladamri's Vineyard, Copper Tablet, Shriekhorn, GT: 21+upkeep
2-0
E: 14-6-2
Last edited by FourDogsinaHorseSuit; 10-04-2022 at 05:53 PM.
GoblinSmashmaster Results for Round GY haters
dte(TO), Dreadship Reef, horizon canopy, Broodstar, mortivore, GT c. 35
Goblin smash :( 0-6
Reeplcheep, Dark Depths, Boseiju, who shelters all, Seraph Sanctuary, Veldt GT: 23
Goblin smash :( 0-6
jfb1337, Lotus Bloom, Conjurer's Bauble, Flailing Soldier, Obsidian Charmaw GT: 15
Goblin smash :( 0-6
Dooey, Subterranean Hangar, Lich's Mastery, Serra's Sanctum, Lion Sash GT30
Lion smash! 6-0
RoosterCocoa, Grand Coliseum, Hickory Woodlot, Reito Lantern, Ajani, Sleeper Agent, GT: 27
Ajani smash! 6-0
Symbi, Lotus Bloom, Mishra's Workshop, Mana Vault, Near-Death Experience, GT:24
Death smash! 6-0
FourDogsinaHorseSuit, Ancient Tomb, Brain in a Jar, Pact of the Titan, Biorhythm, GT9
Titan smash! 6-0
BirdsOfParadise, Hollow Trees, Thought-Knot Seer, Vesuva, Wolfcaller's Howl
Goblin smash :( 0-6
FTW, Rushwood Grove, Vesuva, Wolfcaller's Howl, Reality Smasher
Goblin smash :( 0-6
GoblinSmashmaster, Mercadian Bazaar, Reito Lantern, Boggart Shenanigans, Goblin Assassin, GT183
That's me on another Goblin combo!!
Silkster, Chancellor of the Tangle, Eladamri's Vineyard, Copper Tablet, Shriekhorn, GT: 21+upkeep
Goblin smash :( 0-6
Total: 24 points
dte(TO), Dreadship Reef, horizon canopy, Broodstar, mortivore Sash eats your yard. 0 points.
Reeplcheep, Dark Depths, Boseiju, who shelters all, Seraph Sanctuary, Veldt I deal 1 before you get marit lage. 0 points.
jfb1337, Lotus Bloom, Conjurer's Bauble, Flailing Soldier, Obsidian Charmaw I kill soldier. 0 points.
Dooey, Subterranean Hangar, Lich's Mastery, Serra's Sanctum, Lion Sash Me. 0 points
RoosterCocoa, Grand Coliseum, Hickory Woodlot, Reito Lantern, Ajani, Sleeper Agent I stop your combo in several ways. 0 points.
Symbi, Lotus Bloom, Mishra's Workshop, Mana Vault, Near-Death Experience I can keep you off exactly 1. 0 points.
FourDogsinaHorseSuit, Ancient Tomb, Brain in a Jar, Pact of the Titan, Biorhythm. See discussion below. Biorhythm wins. 6 points
BirdsOfParadise, Hollow Trees, Thought-Knot Seer, Vesuva, Wolfcaller's Howl. You can't do any damage. 0 points.
FTW, Rushwood Grove, Vesuva, Wolfcaller's Howl, Reality Smasher. You can't do any damage. 0 points.
GoblinSmashmaster, Mercadian Bazaar, Reito Lantern, Boggart Shenanigans, Goblin Assassin. I am too fast. 0 points.
Silkster, Chancellor of the Tangle, Eladamri's Vineyard, Copper Tablet, Shriekhorn. Copper tablet makes me lose to mastery. 6 points.
12 total points, I think.
Last edited by Dooey; 10-05-2022 at 05:05 AM.
I missed the round. Apologies. I was busy all day and forgot.
Join the 4 Card Blind competition!
Add 3 points, even if you cast lion sash you still have to sacrifice 19 permanants to Mastery+Biorhythm, which triggers masteryOriginally Posted by Dooey
Actually going through it now, I think I'm slower than you even on the play. My line is:
T1: Play tapped hangar.
T2-7: Make 6 storage counters. Play sanctum at some point.
T8: Play lich's mastery.
T9: Make 1 more storage counter.
T10: Play Lion Sash.
T11: Attack for the first time.
But having the creature doesn't actually save me because I still lose to mastery. Also: You can actually "fog" an attack with pact->block->biorhythm in response to pact trigger, so I can't attack you anyway once you have enough counters on brain.
So I think I get 6 points here actually?
My post says you should add three points, if you copied my work, then you should have 3 points already...
jfb1337, Lotus Bloom, Conjurer's Bauble, Flailing Soldier, Obsidian Charmaw GT: 15
Came up with this concept last round but couldn't find a way to make it beat any of the target decks. But this time there was a target deck that it could beat.
dte(TO), Dreadship Reef, horizon canopy, Broodstar, mortivore, GT c. 35
LL 6-0 You kill the flailer and win
Reeplcheep, Dark Depths, Boseiju, who shelters all, Seraph Sanctuary, Veldt GT: 23
DD 2-2 You kill the flailer, but you can't win without enabling charmaw
Dooey, Subterranean Hangar, Lich's Mastery, Serra's Sanctum, Lion Sash GT30
LL 6-0 You kill the flailer and win
RoosterCocoa, Grand Coliseum, Hickory Woodlot, Reito Lantern, Ajani, Sleeper Agent, GT: 27
LL 6-0 You kill the flailer and win
Symbi, Lotus Bloom, Mishra's Workshop, Mana Vault, Near-Death Experience, GT:24
DD 2-2 You can kill the flailer using the lotus, but then you can't win
FourDogsinaHorseSuit, Ancient Tomb, Brain in a Jar, Pact of the Titan, Biorhythm, GT9
DD 2-2 You can kill the flailer but then you can't win
BirdsOfParadise, Hollow Trees, Thought-Knot Seer, Vesuva, Wolfcaller's Howl
DD 2-2 You can kill the flailer but then you can't win
FTW, Rushwood Grove, Vesuva, Wolfcaller's Howl, Reality Smasher
DD 2-2 You can kill the flailer but then you can't win
GoblinSmashmaster, Mercadian Bazaar, Reito Lantern, Boggart Shenanigans, Goblin Assassin, GT183
LL 6-0 You kill the flailer and win
Silkster, Chancellor of the Tangle, Eladamri's Vineyard, Copper Tablet, Shriekhorn, GT: 21+upkeep
WW 0-6 You can only kill the flailer by playing vineyard, which allows me to play the charmaw
Total: 8L 10D 2W = 34 points
Edit: Fix Reeplcheep matchup
Last edited by jfb1337; 10-05-2022 at 08:39 AM.
Hey FTW, nice deck! ;-)
So, I went over FTW’s scores, and I can’t find any instance in which TKS performs differently than Reality Smasher, so I believe FTW and I score identically.
As always, I’m amazed at the creativity of everyone in this round. How some of you even find these cards is beyond me. (An Ajani that poisons people? Seriously? And what is with that red flier that cares about enemy {C}-producing lands? How did you even...?)
And GoblinSmashmaster, how in the world are you able to come up with a viable Goblin tribal deck every round?
If dte is banning Flailers, I can share my tech: Oppressive Rays. I was almost gonna use that plus Flailing Soldier, City of Traitors, and Boros Garrison — or, alternatively, Hollow Trees, Hypergenesis, Flailing Soldier, Oppressive Rays — last round. I think after the final round, it will be fun to share our ideas that never saw play. I bet there are some really crazy things that got thought up but not used.
1. dte(TO), Dreadship Reef, horizon canopy, Broodstar, mortivore, GT c. 35
You cast mortivore, then wait until I am at 1 life to swing. If I hold NDE, you can just kill me anyway. LL 6-0, 6 total.
2. Reeplcheep, Dark Depths, Boseiju, who shelters all, Seraph Sanctuary, Veldt GT: 23
You are one turn faster. LL 6-0, 12 total
3. jfb1337, Lotus Bloom, Conjurer's Bauble, Flailing Soldier, Obsidian Charmaw GT: 15
I can kill the soldier, but then I can't win. DD 2-2, 14 total
4. Dooey, Subterranean Hangar, Lich's Mastery, Serra's Sanctum, Lion Sash GT30
I die to lion sash. LL 6-0, 20 total
5. RoosterCocoa, Grand Coliseum, Hickory Woodlot, Reito Lantern, Ajani, Sleeper Agent, GT: 27
I get NDE off as poison isn't life loss. WW 0-6, 20 total
6. Symbi, Lotus Bloom, Mishra's Workshop, Mana Vault, Near-Death Experience, GT:24
That's me!
7. FourDogsinaHorseSuit, Ancient Tomb, Brain in a Jar, Pact of the Titan, Biorhythm, GT9
You kill me with biorhythm before I can win. LL 6-0, 26 total
8. BirdsOfParadise, Hollow Trees, Thought-Knot Seer, Vesuva, Wolfcaller's Howl
Mishra's workshop can't cast TKS. WW 0-6, 26 total
9. FTW, Rushwood Grove, Vesuva, Wolfcaller's Howl, Reality Smasher
Mishra's workshop can't cast Reality smasher. WW 0-6, 26 total
10. GoblinSmashmaster, Mercadian Bazaar, Reito Lantern, Boggart Shenanigans, Goblin Assassin, GT183
If you cast assassin when I am at 1 life, you get to keep it and I win. If you cast assassin when I am above 1 life, you don't get to keep it. WW 0-6, 26 total
11. Silkster, Chancellor of the Tangle, Eladamri's Vineyard, Copper Tablet, Shriekhorn, GT: 21+upkeep
If I am at 1 life at the beginning of my upkeep, NDE and tablet will trigger, but because of how triggered abilities are ordered, the tablet will resolve first and I will die. If I am above 1 life, NDE simply won't trigger and I don't win. Therefore, I can't win with copper tablet in play. LL 6-0, 32 total
@Rooster and @Symbi: I don't think that RoosterCocoa 's GT is correct, so you may want to revisit your MU.
Goblin Assassin
May be a bit late given that we are basically at the end, but I never did understand the rule on random effects... what actually happens when goblin assassin ETBs? I had been working under an assumption somewhat along the lines of: opponent of the submitter of the deck with random effects chooses the outcome of the random effect, and is assumed to choose the the one that results in the submitter of the deck with random effects getting the fewest points. But if this card works the way goblin smashmaster wants it to, I must not be understanding.
The basic rules of 4CB apply, except that we exchange decks at the beginning of each match.
So "you" play optimally to win, but random effects work against you.
While on goblins, random effects and 4CB rules, a certain player no one would recognise tried to submit a deck killing by recursive Goblin Game, with a 1 life head start. I said I thought the deck would not be legal, but was not sure as I have no clue as to how to resolve the card. Anyone wants to chime in?
I'd treat Goblin Game as though it were worded the same as Wheel of misfortune; and then resolve it by having the players make choices in APNAP order in which the second player gets to see the first player's choice.
A python script confirms that if a player on 21 life vs a player on 20 life has to make the first choice, then they cannot guarantee staying ahead on life. So it probably doesn't win.
Deck X contains random-effect card R. When R is played, it operates in whichever way causes Deck X to lose. But Deck X is trying to win. Deck X will only actually choose to cast R if doing so helps it win.
Previously FTW had Wild Evocation in a match against me. It turned out that FTW’s deck’s optimal line was to cast Wild Evo, but once it was in play, it operated in a way that tried to make FTW lose. (I think maybe the results was that we drew).
GoblinSmashmaster has Goblin Assassin. Smashie’s deck will, playing optimally, cast Goblin Assassin because doing so helps Smashie win games (it causes a 2/2 to be in play or leads to 1 damage with Boggart Shenanigans). But the Goblin Assassin decides what to do in a way that causes Smashie to lose games. In particular, vs Symbi, Goblin Assassin always chooses to sacrifice itself, resulting in 1 damage to Symbi, except when Symbi is at 1 life. When Symbi is at 1 life, Goblin Assassin chooses to remain in play as a 2/2 with summoning sickness, which enables Symbi to win with NDE.
Casting Mana Clash makes any deck lose on the spot, but no deck will choose to cast Mana Clash for this reason. You can run it, but your deck only casts it if the opponent’s deck is, say, forcing it to be cast with Word of Command, in which case Mana Clash functions like a Pact.
As for Goblin Game... that’s weird. It’s not random. Both sides get to write down whatever number they want. But both sides must play optimally. What happens if each side’s optimal choice is contingent on the choice the opponent is making? Simultaneous decision making is kind of like hidden information. In this format no information is hidden, but how do you get around the simultaneity of the decisions?
This is what happens if you don’t read what “Compleated” actually says, just as I didn’t.
[Incorrect]
I believe RoosterCocoa does as follows:
T1: Play Woodlot.
T2: Play Coliseum. Cast Reito Lantern
T3: Sac Woodlot, put it back in deck
T4: Play Woodlot.
T5: Cast Ajani, +1 Ajani (now 5).
T6: Sac Woodlot, put it back in deck. +1 Ajani (now 6)
T7: Play Woodlot. -6 Ajani. One emblem.
T8: Put Ajani back in deck.
T9: Sac Woodlot. Put Woodlot back in deck.
T10: Play Woodlot.
T11: Cast Ajani. Two poison counters. +1 Ajani (now 5).
T12: Sac Woodlot, put it back in deck. +1 Ajani (now 6).
T13: Play Woodlot. -6 Ajani. Two emblems.
T14: Put Ajani back in deck.
T15: Sac Woodlot. Put Woodlot back in deck.
T16: Play Woodlot.
T17: Cast Ajani. Four new poison counters makes six counters. +1 Ajani (now 5).
T18: Sac Woodlot, put it back in deck. +1 Ajani (now 6).
T19: Play Woodlot. -6 Ajani. Three emblems.
T20: Put Ajani back in deck.
T21: Sac Woodlot. Put Woodlot back in deck.
T22: Play Woodlot.
T23: Cast Ajani. Six new poison counters makes twelve counters. That’s lethal.
[/Incorrect]
Ajani actually comes into play with two fewer loyalty counters, which slows down the clock. I have Symbi winning on turn 24, so if RoosterCocoa wins several turns slower than turn 23, it sounds like LL for Rooster. What do others compute?
Compared to my incorrect computation, Ajani spends two additional turns in its first life, two additional turns in its second life, and one less turn in its third life (since it can go 2 +1 -3 = 0). But in its third life, taking one turn less doesn’t speed things up bc you’re on Hickory Woodlot time (see T17–20 in my incorrect math, which really should be T21–24, I think). So I’m leaning towards thinking RoosterCocoa was right to begin with.
Reeplcheep, Dark Depths, Boseiju, who shelters all, Seraph Sanctuary, Veldt GT: 23
Since the target decks take so long to do the first point of damage I though it would be good to do a kill yourself deck.
dte(TO), Dreadship Reef, horizon canopy, Broodstar, mortivore, GT c. 35
You do 1 damage well before I can make marit lage. LL 6-0
jfb1337, Lotus Bloom, Conjurer's Bauble, Flailing Soldier, Obsidian Charmaw GT: 15
Very impressive, you managed to make flailers work. Disagreement, I can kill soldier with only one colourless producing land but to actually win I need 2. DD 2-2
Dooey, Subterranean Hangar, Lich's Mastery, Serra's Sanctum, Lion Sash GT30
You do 1 damage well before I can make marit lage. LL 6-0
RoosterCocoa, Grand Coliseum, Hickory Woodlot, Reito Lantern, Ajani, Sleeper Agent, GT: 27
I’m faster and you don’t interact. WW 0-6
Actually your GT is 19? LL 6-0
Symbi, Lotus Bloom, Mishra's Workshop, Mana Vault, Near-Death Experience, GT:24
Assuming this is legal (is losing life unfavourable if it wins you the game?), I’m slightly faster. WW 0-6
FourDogsinaHorseSuit, Ancient Tomb, Brain in a Jar, Pact of the Titan, Biorhythm, GT9
I can’t make a creature in time. LL 6-0
BirdsOfParadise, Hollow Trees, Thought-Knot Seer, Vesuva, Wolfcaller's Howl
I have 2 non-colourless producing lands, but I can’t win without all of them. DD 2-2
FTW, Rushwood Grove, Vesuva, Wolfcaller's Howl, Reality Smasher
I have 2 non-colourless producing lands, but I can’t win without all of them. DD 2-2
GoblinSmashmaster, Mercadian Bazaar, Reito Lantern, Boggart Shenanigans, Goblin Assassin, GT183
You do 1 damage well before I can make marit lage. LL 6-0
Silkster, Chancellor of the Tangle, Eladamri's Vineyard, Copper Tablet, Shriekhorn, GT: 21+upkeep
You lose to sanctuary if you do anything, and vineyard stops me from hurting myself so I can still win. WW 0-6
4W 6D 10L for 36/60.
Last edited by Reeplcheep; 10-05-2022 at 02:09 PM.
I feel like it goes against the spirit of "Randomness always hurts you" if, because we're playing buildback I have to always choose the outcome that wins me the game, and therefore costs me the points.
I would think Goblin Game would be done like any other "each player chooses" card, heads up with perfect psychic information. Or everyone always has to choose zero because getting objects to hide is not allowed in 4cb, just like you can't wish.
I would ban it though because I do not want to figure out all 400 possibilities each resolution of the spell and decide which ones are favorable.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote