4CBS13: a 4-cards blind backbuild bannathon season

[GoblinSmashmaster]

Goblin Game math

...

27 life is enough for Player A to kill with 4 Goblin Games no matter what opponent chooses.

I'm no GoblinMathmaster

[RoosterCocoa]

T1 tapped Woodlot (2 counters)
T2 Coliseum. Reito Lantern. (1 counter)
T3 upkeep sac Woodlot -> redraw Woodlot -> tapped Woodlot (2 counters)
T4 Ajani. +1 [Ajani=3, life=17, 1 counter]
T5 upkeep sac Woodlot -> replay tapped Woodlot. +1 [Ajani=4, life=17, 2 counters]
T6 +1 [Ajani=5]
T7 +1 [Ajani=6]
T8 -6. Emblem #1. Put Ajani in library. [life=17, 1 counter]
T9 upkeep sac Woodlot
Library = {Ajani, Woodlot}
Draw Ajani.
T10 Draw Woodlot. Tapped Woodlot [2 counters]
T11 Cast Ajani. +1 [Ajani=3, life=14, poison=2, 1 counter]
T12 upkeep sac Woodlot -> replay tapped Woodlot. +1 [Ajani=4, 2 counters]
T13 +1 [Ajani=5]
T14 +1 [Ajani=6]
T15 -6. Emblem #2. Put Ajani in library. [life=14, poison=2, 1 counter]
T16 Upkeep sac Woodlot. Draw Ajani.
T17 Draw Woodlot. Tapped Woodlot. [2 counters]
T18 Cast Ajani. +1 [Ajani=3, life=11, poison=6, 1 counter]
T19 Upkeep sac Woodlot -> Play tapped Woodlot. -3 Ajani. [Ajani dead, 2 counters]
T20 Upkeep put Ajani in library. Draw Ajani [1 counter]
T21 Cast Ajani. Woodlot dies. [life=8, poison=10, 0 counters]

This looks right, I assume I made a mistake in my calculations somewhere.

Me too! The Ajani is brand new, so maybe someone played it on Arena. It doesn't surprise me that people know about the Charmaw because it was hyped in Modern for a while. But to remember it and realize that it can be used here is the crazy part. An embarrassing number of my searches start with -t:creature or pow=0, cause things that can attack are just too powerful. Wolfcaller's Howl was also a crazy find, and then the ways that made use of opponent playing a land were creative too.

I actually found Ajani when playing a game against infect with a deck that incidentally lost a lot of life, so I realized there might be something there and went through all the cards with infect or that can create poison counters. Wolfcaller's Howl was the end of a long search where I attempted to find something like Iron Maiden the round that all of the target decks had Forbidden Orchard as their only land.

[dte]

Deadline is tomorrow, and only two decks received.

[jfb1337]

The OP says that the deadline is the 18th

[dte]

The OP says that the deadline is the 18th

Deadline Tuesday 18th at 19h.

next deadline is Tuesday October 18th at 19h CEST.

Damn, it seemed I screwed up - no clue why I put 18th rather than 11th. It probably explained why I received so few decks.
But then let's keep the 18th, one additional week for all to think about the last winning deck of the season.

[Reeplcheep]

It also was Canadian thanksgiving so I had no time.

[Reeplcheep]

Brain in a jar lets the goldfish cast biorhythm at instant speed, correct?

[dte]

Brain in a jar lets the goldfish cast biorhythm at instant speed, correct?

Correct.

[silkster]

It also was Canadian thanksgiving so I had no time.

A fellow Canadian! I had no idea!

I'd been thinking that it's customary to take a week break in between seasons, but maybe the extra break now means that won't be necessary. Of course, I still have to decide what that season will be. I haven't done a proper tally of the votes, and they seemed to be quite scattered, but at least most of them seemed to be in favour of most options.

[Phasmoid]

I got curious about the Goblin Game problem (per FTW's post), so I wrote my own Python code for it.
The outcome is,

FTW is correct that 27 life is enough for Player A to kill with 4 Goblin Games no matter what opponent chooses.
and
There is indeed no such line with 26 life, or for that matter with fewer Goblin Games.
and
With 27 life, hiding exactly 15 objects is the only way for the Goblin Game player to win at all, let alone with just 4 of those Games.

.



The code is below.


gamesneededtobeat = [[55 for y in range(50)] for x in range(50)]

for x in range(1,50):
​ ​ ​ gamesneededtobeat[x][0] = 0

def result_of_choices_(xstartswith,ystartswith,xchooses,ychooses):
​ ​ ​ if xchooses <= ychooses:
​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ xendswith = (xstartswith-xchooses)-((1+xstartswith-xchooses)//2)
​ ​ ​ else:
​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ xendswith = xstartswith-xchooses
​ ​ ​ if ychooses <= xchooses:
​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ yendswith = (ystartswith-ychooses)-((1+ystartswith-ychooses)//2)
​ ​ ​ else:
​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ yendswith = ystartswith-ychooses
​ ​ ​ return gamesneededtobeat[max(0,xendswith)][max(0,yendswith)]

for sumoflifetotals in range(2,50):
​ ​ ​ for xstartswith in range(2,sumoflifetotals):
​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ystartswith = sumoflifetotals-xstartswith
​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ gamesneededtobeat[xstartswith][ystartswith] = 1+min(max(result_of_choices_(xstartswith,ystartswith,xchooses,ychooses) for ychooses in range(1,2+xchooses)) for xchooses in range(1,max(2,xstartswith)))

print(gamesneededtobeat[26][20])
print(gamesneededtobeat[27][20])
print(sorted(set(max(result_of_choices_(27,20,xchooses,ychooses) for ychooses in range(1,2+xchooses)) for xchooses in range(1,27))))
print([xchooses for xchooses in range(1,27) if max(result_of_choices_(27,20,xchooses,ychooses) for ychooses in range(1,2+xchooses)) == 3])

​

[dte]

Deadline is tomorrow, and only two decks received.

This time it is really tomorrow!

[silkster]

Are other people late too? My braining is churning as fast as it can!

[dte]

And here are the decks for the final round!

dte(TO), summoner's pact, forsaken wastes, show and tell, sand silos, GT25+upkeep
GoblinSmashmaster, City of Traitors, Treasure Map, Hallowed Ground, Goblin Cannon, GT150
Dooey, Hidetsugu's Second Rite, Molten Slagheap, Sorin’s Vengeance, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, GT11
Asthereal, Dark Depths, Boseiju, who shelters all, Seraph Sanctuary, Veldt, GT23
Reeplcheep, Dark Depths, Barbarian Ring, Kher Keep, Veldt, GT23
RoosterCocoa, Lotus Bloom, Hypergenesis, Oath of Mages, Lich, GT27
Symbi, Mana Vault, Kessig Flamebreather, Forgotten Cave, Mana Clash, GT22
FourDogsinaHorseSuit, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Sand Silos, Torpor Orb, March of the Machines, GT c. 16
BirdsOfParadise, Darksteel Reactor, Flame Blitz, Mana Vault, Mox Tantalite, GT c. 24
jfb1337, Calciform Pools, Gemstone Mine, The Royal Scions, Nexus of Fate, GT178
FTW, Teferi's Isle, Flooded Grove, Hypergenesis, Roiling Vortex, GT25
Silkster, Gemstone Mine, Mana Vault, Darksteel Reactor, Shield Sphere, GT c. 22

[silkster]

no, it is only you among the "sure" ones. I will post at 19h10, send something before then!

I actually just posted before seeing your post, then edited so you could not see it. I will start editing the spreadsheet, so do not open it.

Thanks! I sent something in just now. A few minutes ago I had what felt like a brilliant idea, but it couldn't quite beat the target decks. So instead I just used half the idea.

[dte]

The excel spreadsheet is updated!

My scores for the final round:

dte(TO), summoner's pact, forsaken wastes, show and tell, sand silos, GT25+upkeep
Me, being not very original.

GoblinSmashmaster, City of Traitors, Treasure Map, Hallowed Ground, Goblin Cannon, GT150
6-0, you deal me 1 fast enough.
6

Dooey, Hidetsugu's Second Rite, Molten Slagheap, Sorin’s Vengeance, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, GT11
6-0, any of your spells kill me. But if only I had thought of Urbog instead of pact! It is a great solution vs land that hurt.
12

Asthereal, Dark Depths, Boseiju, who shelters all, Seraph Sanctuary, Veldt, GT23
2-2, we stare
14

Reeplcheep, Dark Depths, Barbarian Ring, Kher Keep, Veldt, GT23
0-6, I beat that.
14

RoosterCocoa, Lotus Bloom, Hypergenesis, Oath of Mages, Lich, GT27
6-0, lich does not care about life loss, only damage.
20

Symbi, Mana Vault, Kessig Flamebreather, Forgotten Cave, Mana Clash, GT22
6-0, you can always kill me.
26

FourDogsinaHorseSuit, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Sand Silos, Torpor Orb, March of the Machines, GT c. 16
6-0, you kill me.
32

BirdsOfParadise, Darksteel Reactor, Flame Blitz, Mana Vault, Mox Tantalite, GT c. 24
0-6. If I understand correctly APNAP rules and that forsaken wastes has been errated, You lose just before winning :/
32

jfb1337, Calciform Pools, Gemstone Mine, The Royal Scions, Nexus of Fate, GT178
6-0, you kill me.
38

FTW, Teferi's Isle, Flooded Grove, Hypergenesis, Roiling Vortex, GT25
2-2, I think we stare
40

Silkster, Gemstone Mine, Mana Vault, Darksteel Reactor, Shield Sphere, GT c. 22
0-6, Again I think APNAP and errata should have me.
40

[dte]

Thanks! I sent something in just now. A few minutes ago I had what felt like a brilliant idea, but it couldn't quite beat the target decks. So instead I just used half the idea.

So what was the other half?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

dte(TO), summoner's pact, forsaken wastes, show and tell, sand silos, GT25+upkeep
I don't play it out vs summoner's pact. Blame modern.
0-2, 6pts.

GoblinSmashmaster, City of Traitors, Treasure Map, Hallowed Ground, Goblin Cannon, GT150
CANNON SMASH! (Literally. It attacks!)
0-2, 12 points

Dooey, Hidetsugu's Second Rite, Molten Slagheap, Sorin’s Vengeance, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, GT11
Urborg pals! We shake hands, like the Urborg buds we are, and ID. It's round 8 after all, and it's a long drive home.
0-0-2, 14 pts.

Asthereal, Dark Depths, Boseiju, who shelters all, Seraph Sanctuary, Veldt, GT23
I'm just happy to be beating dark Depths
2-0

Reeplcheep, Dark Depths, Barbarian Ring, Kher Keep, Veldt, GT23
The lands deck I can't lose to!
2-0

RoosterCocoa, Lotus Bloom, Hypergenesis, Oath of Mages, Lich, GT27
Chose march, you went Opalescence.
2-0

Symbi, Mana Vault, Kessig Flamebreather, Forgotten Cave, Mana Clash, GT22
According to the program I wrote you win t2 when you cast Mana Clash. It's proprietary so you can't see it. But it's professional, so you have to trust it.
0-2. 20pts

FourDogsinaHorseSuit, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Sand Silos, Torpor Orb, March of the Machines, GT c. 16
What a deck! What a smart and beautiful deck!

BirdsOfParadise, Darksteel Reactor, Flame Blitz, Mana Vault, Mox Tantalite, GT c. 24
If you go first you can cast the Reactor before I can march dem machines (which kills your mox).
1-1 23pts

jfb1337, Calciform Pools, Gemstone Mine, The Royal Scions, Nexus of Fate, GT178
2-0

FTW, Teferi's Isle, Flooded Grove, Hypergenesis, Roiling Vortex, GT25
2-0

Silkster, Gemstone Mine, Mana Vault, Darksteel Reactor, Shield Sphere, GT c. 22[/QUOTE]
Losing to Darksteel reactor the old fashioned way. Where it punches me in the face.
0-2 29 points.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

The excel spreadsheet is updated!
FourDogsinaHorseSuit, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Sand Silos, Torpor Orb, March of the Machines, GT c. 16
6-0, you kill me.

I snap concede to summoner's pact. You, having perfect information know how many times I've done this, know I will in all formats including 4cb. So it's 2-0 you, zero points.

[FTW]

FTW: Teferi's Isle, Flooded Grove, Hypergenesis, Roiling Vortex, GT25+upkeep

I wanted to play Simic Guildgate, Eladamri's Vineyard, Hypergenesis, Roiling Vortex to play around pain mana but realized it could not beat any of the target decks.

1. dte(TO): lol pseudo-mirror. Whoever resolves first wins, since opponent takes upkeep first. You have T5 Show and Tell. I can only do T6 Hypergenesis. You win both. LL 6-0
2. GoblinSmashmaster: If I ever play Hypergenesis, you get Cannon + mana to deal damage so Vortex would kill me. LL 6-0
3. Dooey: You can wait till Vortex gets me to 10 life and then kill me. LL 6-0
4. Asthereal: This is where Vineyard would help. You can't win. I can't beat your lifegain. But can you even beat a target deck? DD 2-2?
5. Reeplcheep: Same as Asthereal, except you can beat Biorhythm and can't gain life. WW 0-6
6. RoosterCocoa: Ha, one of my decks had Oath of Mages but I didn't see the combo with Lich. Clever! WW 0-6
7. Symbi: If I cast Hypergenesis I lose, but you can't play yours first either. DD 2-2
8. FourDogsinaHorseSuit: You can deal me damage. LL 6-0
9. BirdsOfParadise: Edit: Vortex trigger goes on top of Reactor trigger, so I can win in response. WW 0-6
10. jfb1337: You can deal 1 damage before turn 25. LL 6-0
12. Silkster: Edit: Illegal deck

34 points (10 loss, 4 draw, 6 wins)

Other decks I had for this round:
Mana Confluence, Molten Slagheap, Urza's Rage, Hidetsugu's Second Rite GT17 at 4 life
Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Molten Slagheap, Rusting Golem, Hidetsugu's Second Rite GT9 at 4 life (more fragile but could be too fast)
Karplusan Forest, Teferi's Isle, Oath of Mages, Shock GT22 at 1 life (this seemed too good at winning. Lich is better)
Teferi's Isle, Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Dark Depths, Mana Vault GT22 at 1 life (too slow to race faster Ajani clock)
Calciform Pools, Veldt, Reduce to Dreams, Draco GT94 (beats Lich's Mastery)

[silkster]

ILLEGAL DECK: Read for Fun Only

dte(TO), summoner's pact, forsaken wastes, show and tell, sand silos, GT25+upkeep
Show and Tell lets me win, but tapping Mana Vault lets you win. DD
I was so preoccupied with getting a free Darksteel Reactor that I didn't realize that your Wastes trigger will resolve first on my 20th post school presentation upkeep.
LL

GoblinSmashmaster, City of Traitors, Treasure Map, Hallowed Ground, Goblin Cannon, GT150
I haven't done the math, but I'm pretty sure you can do 1 damage before turn 20.
LL

Dooey, Hidetsugu's Second Rite, Molten Slagheap, Sorin’s Vengeance, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, GT11
Ooh, Urborg is a nice touch against people playing intentionally bad lands. You can get to Rites mana before I go below 10, and if I do nothing you can eventually cast both in one turn. Lucky for me, neither my mana sources does damage to me right away.
LL

Asthereal, Dark Depths, Boseiju, who shelters all, Seraph Sanctuary, Veldt, GT23
I almost submitted something very close to this, but I wanted to something something newish. I think taking damage while not dealing damage is a very good way to go. I also couldn't quite make it work because I thought the Ajani deck could win on turn 21. Lion Sash can get 1 damage in early, and Biorhythm kills you.
WW for now

Reeplcheep, Dark Depths, Barbarian Ring, Kher Keep, Veldt, GT23
Ah, Kher Keep to beat the Biorhythm deck. You only end up doing 10 or 11 damage to yourself, but you get the benefit of being able to play Depths.
WW

RoosterCocoa, Lotus Bloom, Hypergenesis, Oath of Mages, Lich, GT27
Oooh, that's a cool use of Lich. I've long known that Oath of Mages is a terrible card that does damage and I tried briefly to make it work, but couldn't see it actually winning. And I was just reading how weird the original Lich was while reviewing Lich's Mastery, but I didn't put them together.
Same result as against dte.
DD
Edit: No longer the same as against dte, but still a draw since Oath of Mages triggers on your upkeep.

Symbi, Mana Vault, Kessig Flamebreather, Forgotten Cave, Mana Clash, GT22
At first I was like "a 1/3? That's way too powerful!" Then I was like, oh, Mana Vault. So you must need Mana Clash to race your own Vault. And I remembered that Mana Clash did damage in a stupid way, but I had to read it before I realized that it's the Flamebreather trigger that matters. I appreciate that the self destruction on Mana Clash is even more immediate than on Summoner's Pact.
[strike]In any case, I do too much damage to myself. LL [\strike]
Shield Sphere plays too much defense to lose, though not so much defense as to allow me to win.
DD

FourDogsinaHorseSuit, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Sand Silos, Torpor Orb, March of the Machines, GT c. 16
I play a big artifact. :(
WW
I'm curious what Torpor Orb is for. My instinct would have been to go for Cursed Totem so that you can salvage a draw against the Manticore. I'm also now curious about the Urborg that you don't have to play. Did you mean to use a Time Spiral charge land that requires mana to charge? Even still, March is cool tech.

BirdsOfParadise, Darksteel Reactor, Flame Blitz, Mana Vault, Mox Tantalite, GT c. 24
Wow, Flame Blitz is really dumb! My mana is too fast. I shouldn't have been worried about being able to make mana every turn.
WW

jfb1337, Calciform Pools, Gemstone Mine, The Royal Scions, Nexus of Fate, GT178
You can get the first point of damage in too quickly.
LL

FTW, Teferi's Isle, Flooded Grove, Hypergenesis, Roiling Vortex, GT25
[strike]Same as against dte and RoosterCocoa. DD[\strike]
Still same as dte.
LL

Silkster, Gemstone Mine, Mana Vault, Darksteel Reactor, Shield Sphere, GT c. 22
Squeaking in at the last second. I really wanted to play Rith's Lair, Eladamri's Vineyard, Mana Vault, Darksteel Reactor, but it wasn't beating the target decks.

I wanted to play Dark Depths as a thing to lose life towards without doing damage along the way, but I couldn't find a good way to lose 19 life, be slow, and still beat any of the targets. I thought about running back the same Flailing Manticore deck as before. Last week there were 5 storage lands to beat. It felt like there were a lot of storage lands this week, but there were really only 3, but it felt like more because I winced with regret each time I saw one.

I'm not surprised to see a bunch of Mana Vaults and Dark Depths. I am surprised to see no Flailing Manticores and no Eladamri's Vineyards. It is true that Chancellor of the Tangle gave it a lot of its power.

10L, 4D, 8W = 34