Howl forces the land to be played, then Piracy can tap it for green to activate Elderhall. Word of Command would work too.Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
Round: Hope your opponent gives you the tools to kill them.
dte (TO): rhystic cave,drifter il-dal,final fortune,summoner's pact, GT11
LL, 6-0. Can't stop the cave. Edit: I understood that jfb1337 played Summoner's Pact for the mirror, but I didn't realize it while reading your deck. That's cool that you played around Worst Fears. Or maybe you were playing around Word of Command.
Wrath of Pie: Halls of Mist, Hollow Trees, Living Plane, Eternal Dominion GT:26
LL, 6-0. If I play Barbed Wire, you wait until we're I'm up 4-3, then play Hollow Trees and attack for 1. If I block, you can attack next turn to win. If I don't block and I attack back, you can attack with the Trees to win.
If I don't play Barbed Wire, you have all the time in the world to save up mana and then you get to attack with the Halls first.
Symbi: Rhystic Cave, drifter il-dal, Mana Crypt, Arcane Signet GT:11
LL, 6-0. Edit 2: Oh, the Mana Crypt is to beat the Soldier and also lose to Word of Command. Or at least it gets to do that here. Nice.
GoblinSmashmaster: Black Lotus, Dark Ritual, Covetous Urge, Mana Crypt GT NA
WD, 1-4. Turn 1 discard.
FourDogsinaHorseSuit : Mercadian BazaarWild EvocationExert Influence Pendelhaven GT NA
WW, 0-6
jfb1337: Mage-ring network, River Delta, Worst Fears,Summoner's Pact GT NA
WW, 0-6.
FTW: Subterranean Hangar, Ostracize, Mortivore,Satyr's Cunning GT 27 (only if opponent has creature card)
WW, 0-6.
Alphastryk:Svyelunite Temple, Saprazzan Skerry,Dominate, Covetous Urge GT: N/A
WW, 0-6.
Reeplcheep: Lava Tubes, Cabal Pit, Word of Command,Word of Command, GT: N/A
WW, 0-6. Oh, I can kill you. Wow.
Dooey:Gateway Plaza, Fetid Heath, Dread Fugue,Animate Dead, GT: N/A
WW, 0-6.
RoosterCocoa: Skemfar Elderhall, Dreadship Reef, Wolfcaller's Howl, Piracy, GT: N/A
WW, 0-6
BirdsOfParadise: Ancient Tomb, Mox Emerald, Saproling Cluster, Street Wraith GT 21
LL, 6-0. I had been planning to submit Saproling Cluster all week until last night.
silkster: Mishra's Workshop, Barbed Wire, Brainwash, Bandage, GT: 20 + opponent's upkeep
Me, carefully using one of the most powerful lands ever printed in order to be unable to pay for Saproling Cluster or Rhystic Cave.
Asthereal: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Aura Flux, Teferi's Imp GT c. 45
LL, 6-0. You need to take 3 damage from the City to play the imp, and by 8 turns later you're ahead on life, so Barbed Wire isn't enough pressure.
16W, 1D, 9L = 31. I grossly misread my card somehow. I swear I read it a dozen times last week. Oh well.
A>B>>C, though it depends a little on what gets banned this week.
Rainbow Vale and Forbidden Orchard are truly terrible, and they allowed people to do basically nothing and also lose to the opponent giving them mana or making the creature for them. As long as a large pile of these cards get banned, I think it'll be fine going forward. If we want to make sure our decks beat 4x Wastes, I almost feel at this point that that's worth its own season.
Editing to make thread readable. Thanks for the answers!
Q: Reep, how do you WW against any of the target decks if they refuse to play a land drop?
A: Word of Command works on lands. Reep forces the Orchard deck to play Orchard and then forces it to play Flailing Soldier.
Q: Silkster, which target deck do you beat? I’m confused since you can’t shrink a Flailing creature.
A: Brainwash isn’t a brick, it lets Silkster win against the Rainbow Vale version of the Flailing Soldier deck.
I have no prefrence on the draw state
FourDogs: I beat the target deck by overcharging up my Storage land so that I can set the creature's P/T to 1/1. Activte pendlehaven to make it a 2/3. Then I can make it a 0/1 (and save two mana to stop op from changing it back) Only then can I target and steal it with my Converge Control Magic.
dte (TO): Nice final fortune. WW
Wrath of Pie: Pendlehaven: Mirror Breaker WW
Symbi: I assume Signet makes no mana? WW
GoblinSmashmaster: No wincon from you? DD from me (first points!)
jfb1337: Nice Summoner's Pact. WW
FTW:I have no creatures for Mortivore and I'm not going to let you cast the Satyr's Cunning DD
Alphastryk: Nothing to dominate: DD
Reeplcheep: Nothing to command: DD
Dooey:Nothing to reanimate: DD
RoosterCocoa: I'll play the land that doesn't make green and then I won't have 4 cards in hand, which means you can't make any woolves. DD
BirdsOfParadise: DD. I win if you cast burst (you can make 1 1/1. I can make 1 backed by pendlehaven), I lose if I go for evokation (I can make either 1 with pendlehaven, or 2 1/1s without it. Resolved Street Wraith beats both). So we spend infinite turns hopping the other takes a step towards any plan. DD
Silkster: I can't interact with the wire. LL (!!!!)
Asthereal: I can't beat a Teferi's Imp. LL
8-4-14
26 points
Word of Command can choose Forbidden Orchard. The next Word of Command can choose the Flailing Soldier. Tapping the land pre-emptively to stop the casting of Flailing Soldier doesn't help.
How do I protect myself from Barbed Wire? Only you can pay the 2.
Word of Command forces the opponent to play a card, so the first one forces the opponent to play the orchard. The second makes them tap it.
Find a way to make it flail to 1/1 (so storage land up to like 10 or so counters) -> Pendlehaven it to a 2/3. Flail it to a 0/1. -> Gain control.
Do you think that rhystic cave is better?
Also, I think 4dogs is right, and that changes a few of your MUs.
Silks wins against the rainbow vale deck, by brainwashing an eventual soldier.
That was truly beautiful btw.
I cannot. But I can make you cast either of your spells that say "lose the game"
Oh Damn. Hold on.
True!
Thanks, I edit my post.
GoblinSmashmaster Results for Round "Can't win"
dte (TO): rhystic cave,drifter il-dal,final fortune,summoner's pact, GT11
Can't win 2-2
Wrath of Pie: Halls of Mist, Hollow Trees, Living Plane, Eternal Dominion GT:26
Can't win 2-2
Symbi: Rhystic Cave, drifter il-dal, Mana Crypt, Arcane Signet GT:11
Can't win 2-2
GoblinSmashmaster: Black Lotus, Dark Ritual, Covetous Urge, Mana Crypt GT NA
That's me, playing a legal deck!
FourDogsinaHorseSuit : Mercadian BazaarWild EvocationExert Influence Pendelhaven GT NA
Can't win 2-2
jfb1337: Mage-ring network, River Delta, Worst Fears,Summoner's Pact GT NA
Can't win 2-2
FTW: Subterranean Hangar, Ostracize, Mortivore,Satyr's Cunning GT 27 (only if opponent has creature card)
Satyr smash! I won :| 0-6
Alphastryk:Svyelunite Temple, Saprazzan Skerry,Dominate, Covetous Urge GT: N/A
Can't win 2-2
Reeplcheep: Lava Tubes, Cabal Pit, Word of Command,Word of Command, GT: N/A
Crypt :( 6-0
Dooey:Gateway Plaza, Fetid Heath, Dread Fugue,Animate Dead, GT: N/A
Can't win 2-2
RoosterCocoa: Skemfar Elderhall, Dreadship Reef, Wolfcaller's Howl, Piracy, GT: N/A
Can't win 2-2
BirdsOfParadise: Ancient Tomb, Mox Emerald, Saproling Cluster, Street Wraith GT 21
Can't win 2-2
silkster: Mishra's Workshop, Barbed Wire, Brainwash, Bandage, GT: 20 + opponent's upkeep
Barbed Wire 4-1
Asthereal: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Aura Flux, Teferi's Imp GT c. 45[/QUOTE]
Can't win 2-2
Total: 30 points
Cool deck, but doesn’t piracy only let you use it to cast spells? Or can he float the mana?
Gatherer errata is
"Until end of turn, you may tap lands you don't control for mana. Spend this mana only to cast spells."
So you can activate the mana ability, then not be able to spend it. That's still enough to gain control of Rainbow Vale, then use Rainbow Vale to activate Elderfall.
If you activate opponent's Orchard, unsure who gets the token.
Backbuild is weird and I'm not really surprised a large number of entries can't beat a literal goldfish. Not sure that's truly solvable or just the reality of backbuild.
Lets see how many draws there are given none of us can beat 4x Wastes
dte (TO): rhystic cave,drifter il-dal,final fortune,summoner's pact, GT11
Either you play out Drifter and I can stop your Cave to kill it or you hold it and I can steal it with Urge but not keep it. DD
2-2
Wrath of Pie: Halls of Mist, Hollow Trees, Living Plane, Eternal Dominion GT:26
I can always take your Living Plane with Urge before you can cast it to force the draw DD
2-2
Symbi: Rhystic Cave, drifter il-dal, Mana Crypt, Arcane Signet GT:11
Either you play out Drifter and I can stop your Cave to kill it or you hold it and I can steal it with Urge but not keep it. DD
2-2
GoblinSmashmaster: Black Lotus, Dark Ritual, Covetous Urge, Mana Crypt GT NA
No win conditions. DD
2-2
FourDogsinaHorseSuit: Mercadian BazaarWild EvocationExert Influence Pendelhaven GT NA
No win conditions. DD
2-2
jfb1337: Mage-ring network, River Delta, Worst Fears,Summoner's Pact GT NA
No win conditions. DD
2-2
FTW: Subterranean Hangar, Ostracize, Mortivore,Satyr's Cunning GT 27 (only if opponent has creature card)
I'm able to steal your Satyr that you can't even cast and beat you with it - nice tech. WW
0-6
alphastryk: Svyelunite Temple, Saprazzan Skerry,Dominate, Covetous Urge GT: N/A
me
Reeplcheep: Lava Tubes, Cabal Pit, Word of Command, Word of Command, GT: N/A
I need to revisit how Word of Command works but can't the target decks all force a draw by holding their lands I didn't think you could force people to play lands with Word? Thats why I ended up with Covetous Urge. Either way, neither of us can win without the opponent having a threat to steal. DD
2-2
Dooey: Gateway Plaza, Fetid Heath, Dread Fugue,Animate Dead, GT: N/A
No win conditions. DD
2-2
RoosterCocoa: Skemfar Elderhall, Dreadship Reef, Wolfcaller's Howl, Piracy, GT: N/A
You can never produce green mana and I cannot Urge your Howl and still be able to cast it. DD
2-2
BirdsOfParadise: Ancient Tomb, Mox Emerald, Saproling Cluster, Street Wraith GT 21
If you play out Cluster, you lose. If you hold it I can take it with Urge (and even cast it) but then I lose. Stare. DD
2-2
silkster: Mishra's Workshop, Barbed Wire, Brainwash, Bandage, GT: 20 + opponent's upkeep
I cannot stop your Barbed Wire. LL
6-0
Asthereal: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Aura Flux, Teferi's Imp GT c. 45[/QUOTE]
I'm always able to Urge on my turn 3 just before you can cast the Imp I can't Dominate on your turn 4, forcing the draw. DD
2-2
Total: 28 points
Option ranking: C>B>>A
1. dte (TO): rhystic cave,drifter il-dal,final fortune,summoner's pact, GT11
Basically the same deck as my one. Note that due to how timing rules work, it is impossible to pay for a rhystic cave with a rhystic cave. However, it doesn't matter here as our creatures just trade. If I play mana crypt to kill your creature, I will die to crypt first. DD 2-2
0+2=2
2. Wrath of Pie: Halls of Mist, Hollow Trees, Living Plane, Eternal Dominion GT:26
You can kill my creature, but I get a hit in first, meaning you will lose the damage race if you play the living plane. dte is wrong here as living plane is symmetric so they will have a blocker DD 2-2
2+2=4
3. Symbi: Rhystic Cave, drifter il-dal, Mana Crypt, Arcane Signet GT:11
That's me!
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Black Lotus, Dark Ritual, Covetous Urge, Mana Crypt GT NA
You can take my creature, but can't keep it. If I play it first, you kill it but can't win from there. DD 2-2
4+2=6
5. FourDogsinaHorseSuit : Mercadian Bazaar,Wild Evocation,Exert Influence, Pendelhaven GT NA
Oh no! My mana crypt! LL 6-0
6+6=12
6. jfb1337: Mage-ring network, River Delta, Worst Fears,Summoner's Pact GT NA
Oh no! My mana crypt! LL 6-0
12+6=18
7. FTW: Subterranean Hangar, Ostracize, Mortivore,Satyr's Cunning GT 27 (only if opponent has creature card)
You ostracize or kill my creature, then beat down with mortivore. LL 6-0
18+6=24
8. Alphastryk:Svyelunite Temple, Saprazzan Skerry,Dominate, Covetous Urge GT: N/A
You take my creature, but you can't keep it. DD 2-2
24+2=26
9. Reeplcheep: Lava Tubes, Cabal Pit, Word of Command,Word of Command, GT: N/A
Oh no! My mana crypt! LL 6-0
26+6=32
10. Dooey:Gateway Plaza, Fetid Heath, Dread Fugue,Animate Dead, GT: N/A
You kill or dread fugue my creature and reanimate it, using gateway plaza for the upkeep cost. LL 6-0
32+6=38
11. RoosterCocoa: Skemfar Elderhall, Dreadship Reef, Wolfcaller's Howl, Piracy, GT: N/A
You can kill my creature, but you can't win. DD 2-2
38+2=40
12. BirdsOfParadise: Ancient Tomb, Mox Emerald, Saproling Cluster, Street Wraith GT 21
You can kill my creature, but you can't win with the cluster as I get to make a saproling as well. DD 2-2
40+2=42
13. silkster: Mishra's Workshop, Barbed Wire, Brainwash, Bandage, GT: 20 + opponent's upkeep
You can't pay for rhystic cave. WW 0-6
42+0=42
14. Asthereal: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Aura Flux, Teferi's Imp GT c. 45
This deck can beat 4 wastes (as does silkster's). And also my deck. LL 6-0
42+6=48
Total score: 48
P.S. Is there a better way to type these up than manually adding card tags to everything?
Use "reply with quote" on my post, then delete the beginning and the end. All cards already have the tag.
Mana crypt doesn't beat the soldier as I will die first, but it was in there to lose to mindslaver effects. I beat the forbidden orchard deck by abusing the fact that it has to give me 2 spirits (one to cast the soldier and the other to pay for cave).
dte (TO): rhystic cave,drifter il-dal,final fortune,summoner's pact, GT11
I reanimate drifter and kill you with it. WW - 0 points (0 total).
Wrath of Pie: Halls of Mist, Hollow Trees, Living Plane, Eternal Dominion GT:26
I can't win unless you play living plane, so you don't play living plane. DD - 2 points (2 total).
Symbi: Rhystic Cave, drifter il-dal, Mana Crypt, Arcane Signet GT:11
I reanimate drifter and kill you with it. WW - 0 points (2 total).
GoblinSmashmaster: Black Lotus, Dark Ritual, Covetous Urge, Mana Crypt GT NA
No threats. DD - 2 points (4 total).
FourDogsinaHorseSuit : Mercadian BazaarWild EvocationExert Influence Pendelhaven GT NA
No threats. DD - 2 points (6 total).
jfb1337: Mage-ring network, River Delta, Worst Fears,Summoner's Pact GT NA
No threats. DD - 2 points (8 total).
FTW: Subterranean Hangar, Ostracize, Mortivore,Satyr's Cunning GT 27 (only if opponent has creature card)
No threats. DD - 2 points (10 total).
Alphastryk:Svyelunite Temple, Saprazzan Skerry,Dominate, Covetous Urge GT: N/A
No threats. DD - 2 points (12 total).
Reeplcheep: Lava Tubes, Cabal Pit, Word of Command,Word of Command, GT: N/A
No threats. DD - 2 points (14 total).
Dooey:Gateway Plaza, Fetid Heath, Dread Fugue,Animate Dead, GT: N/A
It me. 12 total.
RoosterCocoa: Skemfar Elderhall, Dreadship Reef, Wolfcaller's Howl, Piracy, GT: N/A
No threats. DD - 2 points (16 total).
BirdsOfParadise: Ancient Tomb, Mox Emerald, Saproling Cluster, Street Wraith GT 21
Neat deck. I think we stare at each other though. I can't get street wraith into your yard to reanimate, unless you discard it, so you don't. I can't make a saproling unless you play cluster, so you don't. Thus neither of us have a threat. DD - 2 points (18 total)
silkster: Mishra's Workshop, Barbed Wire, Brainwash, Bandage, GT: 20 + opponent's upkeep
I can't stop the barbed wire kill. LL - 6 points (24 total)
Asthereal: City of Brass, Dreadship Reef, Aura Flux, Teferi's Imp GT c. 45
I can't stop the imp. LL - 6 points (30 total)
My vote for resolving draws is: C>A>>B. If the winners don't have a threat to steal, stealing the opponent's threat isn't viable, and you'll have to bring a threat, so with option A, maybe rounds will alternate between bring the worst thread, and bring the worst version of stealing your opponents threat. I think I prefer a meta of having to bring a threat, but the slowest, weakest, easiest to disrupt threat. Having to beat multiple different decks seems contorted to me, like the most effort for least benefit compared to the other two.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote