4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

[silkster]

GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Mox Ruby, Magus of the Moon, Broadside Bombardiers, comment: Boastful goblins
WW - I thought this was an easy win at first, but I do take 4 damage along the way, both on the play and on the draw, so I'm only winning at 1 life. It's a good thing Emrakul isn't 16 to cast.

FTW: Forest, Mox Emerald, Channel, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, comment: Form of the Spaghetti
WL - Great minds or fools? Thought this was DD at first as the second Emrakul kills the first, but actually the first removes the life required to cast the second.

Tirrit: Leyline of Anticipation, Mox Pearl, Lotus Petal, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, comment: I'm hoping people are too afraid of land destruction to do land things
LL

Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Mox Ruby, Blood Moon, Lupine Prototype, comment:
WW - I almost played a non basic because I forgot about Blood Moon, but I couldn't think of a good one.

Reeplcheep: Mishra’s Factory, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Mox Pearl, Chancellor of the Annex, comment: Taxes
LL - I thought I was ready for Chancellor. The decks I came up with were losing to Karn and Karakas redundantly. These Karakas specific cards are very nice.

Silkster: Forest, Mox Emerald, Channel, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, comment: hopefully the right monster

dte: Mishra's workshop, Ensnaring bridge, Scalding Tongs, Maze of ith, comment:
LL - I can fly! I don't need to cross the darn bridge!

5W, 7L

[FTW]

I thought the deadline was being pushed back by 24 h? I was planning on changing. Too late now. The other deck beats Ensnaring Bridge, but loses to Blood Moon OTD & still loses to Lavinia & Thalia, so maybe Emrakul was better.

Same score as silkster.
15 points (5 wins, 7 loss)

I thought this round would be free of most T0/T1 prison, with Forest + Mox beating Chancellor & Moon. Lavinia & Thalia are clever.

Does Reeplcheep's deck LL to the ceiling deck or just DD?

[dte]

GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Mox Ruby, Magus of the Moon, Broadside Bombardiers, comment: Boastful goblins
3-3

FTW: Forest, Mox Emerald, Channel, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, comment: Form of the Spaghetti
6-0
9

Tirrit: Leyline of Anticipation, Mox Pearl, Lotus Petal, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, comment: I'm hoping people are too afraid of land destruction to do land things
6-0. Feeling lucky here
15

Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Mox Ruby, Blood Moon, Lupine Prototype, comment:
3-3
18

Reeplcheep: Mishra’s Factory, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Mox Pearl, Chancellor of the Annex, comment: Taxes
0-6. Nice how it loses so narrowly to the target deck.
18

Silkster: Forest, Mox Emerald, Channel, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, comment: hopefully the right monster
6-0
24

dte: Mishra's workshop, Ensnaring bridge, Scalding Tongs, Maze of ith, comment:
Me, who was on illegal deck.

[dte]

Does Reeplcheep's deck LL to the ceiling deck or just DD?

Reeplcheep loses LL. Bounce Thalia EoT pay tax for lotus, bounce Thalia end of turn, play Karn.

[tirrit]

Tirrit: Leyline of Anticipation, Mox Pearl, Lotus Petal, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, comment: I'm hoping people are too afraid of land destruction to do land things


GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Mox Ruby, Magus of the Moon, Broadside Bombardiers, comment: Boastful goblins
I cast lavinia on your upkeep, which means mox ruby will be countered and you can't cast any other spells: WW

FTW: Forest, Mox Emerald, Channel, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, comment: Form of the Spaghetti
I cast lavinia on your upkeep, which means mox emerald will be countered and you can't cast any other spells: WW

Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Mox Ruby, Blood Moon, Lupine Prototype, comment:
I cast lavinia on your upkeep, which means mox ruby will be countered. You can still cast Lupine Prototype, and since I am empty handed your 5/5 smashes me. If I don't cast lavinia you eventually empty your hand and smash me: LL

Reeplcheep: Mishra’s Factory, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Mox Pearl, Chancellor of the Annex, comment: Taxes
Chancellor beats my whole deck: LL
For some reason it didn't occur to me that chancellor was legal. I feel very lucky there was only one copy this week!

Silkster: Forest, Mox Emerald, Channel, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, comment: hopefully the right monster
I cast lavinia on your upkeep, which means mox emerald will be countered and you can't cast any other spells: WW

dte: Mishra's workshop, Ensnaring bridge, Scalding Tongs, Maze of ith, comment:
I cast lavinia on your upkeep and then maze of ith just destroys me just by being a second land letting you cast tongs, and then fogging lavinia: LL

18/36

[GoblinSmashmaster]

GoblinSmashmaster Results for "Round 3, Part 2, Turn 1"

GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Mox Ruby, Magus of the Moon, Broadside Bombardiers, comment: Boastful goblins
That's me playing a Goblin!

FTW: Forest, Mox Emerald, Channel, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, comment: Form of the Spaghetti
Goblin... almost :( 0-6

Tirrit: Leyline of Anticipation, Mox Pearl, Lotus Petal, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, comment: I'm hoping people are too afraid of land destruction to do land things
Lavinia :( 0-6

Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Mox Ruby, Blood Moon, Lupine Prototype, comment:
Moon smash! 3-3

Reeplcheep: Mishra’s Factory, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Mox Pearl, Chancellor of the Annex, comment: Taxes
Goblin smash! 6-0

Silkster: Forest, Mox Emerald, Channel, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, comment: hopefully the right monster
Goblin... almost :( 0-6

dte: Mishra's workshop, Ensnaring bridge, Scalding Tongs, Maze of ith, comment:
Goblin smash, then bridge 3-3

12 goblin points

[silkster]

I thought the deadline was being pushed back by 24 h? I was planning on changing. Too late now. The other deck beats Ensnaring Bridge, but loses to Blood Moon OTD & still loses to Lavinia & Thalia, so maybe Emrakul was better.

That's next week. The 7th rather than the 6th. Sorry for the confusion.

Tirrit: Leyline of Anticipation, Mox Pearl, Lotus Petal, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, comment: I'm hoping people are too afraid of land destruction to do land things

dte: Mishra's workshop, Ensnaring bridge, Scalding Tongs, Maze of ith, comment:
I cast lavinia on your upkeep and then maze of ith just destroys me just by being a second land letting you cast tongs, and then fogging lavinia: LL

I missed how absolutely brutal Maze of Ith is against you. Ouch! Amazingly, the Maze of Ith also acts as a second mana source to cast Scalding Tongs through Blood Moon. That Maze is doing some serious moonlighting.

I took a quick look at the match ups for Wrath of Pie and Reeplcheep. I think Reeplcheep takes their head-to-head because Blood Moon gets stranded in hand. All of the other scores everyone has against them seem correct, which means that Wrath of Pie and GoblinSmashmaster tie on points. I think this is the first time we'll need a tie-breaker, and the fine print from a while ago will tell you that the tie-breaker is that the earlier submission counts as scoring higher, so the next ceiling deck would be City of Traitors, Mox Ruby, Blood Moon, Lupine Prototype. I'll confirm in a day or two, and this is the week with a delayed deadline.

[FTW]

GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Mox Ruby, Magus of the Moon, Broadside Bombardiers, comment: Boastful goblins
That's me playing a Goblin!

Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Mox Ruby, Blood Moon, Lupine Prototype, comment:
Moon smash! 3-3

The Blood Moon mirror is funny: I just realized neither of you can present a threat if the other plays T1 Moon (GSM can't cast either creature, and Wrath can't empty hand).

Moon vs dte is also funny: dte can still resolve a threat thanks to Maze, the threat's just too slow without Bridge.

[silkster]

We might discuss what we should play after this round.

1) extend the same thing that we're doing a few more rounds (say, default extension = 2)
2) Change the format from which we make our lists.
a) taking the ceiling deck from the previous week as usual
b) making a new ceiling deck the same way we did originally (everyone submits whatever and we take the median)

When we do change the format, I plan to do something like 10 rounds with a few small pools (~block/standard size), a few large pools (~modern/historic), and a few vintage/legacy rounds (which will hopefully playout differently against comically weaker ceiling decks).

You can vote, or suggest something, or abstain cause it's all pretty similar anyway.

[tirrit]

Tirrit: Leyline of Anticipation, Mox Pearl, Lotus Petal, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, comment: I'm hoping people are too afraid of land destruction to do land things


Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Mox Ruby, Blood Moon, Lupine Prototype, comment:
I cast lavinia on your upkeep, which means mox ruby will be countered. You can still cast Lupine Prototype, and since I am empty handed your 5/5 smashes me. If I don't cast lavinia you eventually empty your hand and smash me: LL


18/36

I just realized that on the play I can simply choose not to put the leyline into play, and thus not be empty-handed, while still casting lavinia in time to strand blood moon in hand. This doesn't work on the draw, so it's actually WL

Final score actually 21/36

[dte]

We might discuss what we should play after this round.

1) extend the same thing that we're doing a few more rounds (say, default extension = 2)
2) Change the format from which we make our lists.
a) taking the ceiling deck from the previous week as usual
b) making a new ceiling deck the same way we did originally (everyone submits whatever and we take the median)

When we do change the format, I plan to do something like 10 rounds with a few small pools (~block/standard size), a few large pools (~modern/historic), and a few vintage/legacy rounds (which will hopefully playout differently against comically weaker ceiling decks).

You can vote, or suggest something, or abstain cause it's all pretty similar anyway.

My favorite would be to alternate backbuild and ceiling, taking the top deck as target.

That should bring diversity.

It seems clear now that the power level doesn't go down in ceiling alone, and I don't think the starting point matters much: we could play squire, 3x plains as target, and have next round lotus/thoracle with double pact or Fow/Leyline backup as a legal deck. We end up playing rounds of best deck in an environment that loses to FoW/chancellor /LD

[Reeplcheep]

Reeplcheep: Mishra’s Factory, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Mox Pearl, Chancellor of the Annex, comment: Taxes
Chancellor + loses to karakas seemed like the most niche way to lose.

GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Mox Ruby, Magus of the Moon, Broadside Bombardiers, comment: Boastful goblins
Tax evasion. LL

FTW: Forest, Mox Emerald, Channel, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, comment: Form of the Spaghetti
Annex slows you enough to cast Thalia. wW

Tirrit: Leyline of Anticipation, Mox Pearl, Lotus Petal, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, comment: I'm hoping people are too afraid of land destruction to do land things
Chancellor WW

Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Mox Ruby, Blood Moon, Lupine Prototype, comment:
Blood moon and chancellor stuck in hand. WW

Silkster: Forest, Mox Emerald, Channel, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, comment: hopefully the right monster
Annex slows you enough to cast Thalia. wW

dte: Mishra's workshop, Ensnaring bridge, Scalding Tongs, Maze of ith, comment:
Thalia + factory races tongs + maze. WW

10 W 2 L for 30/36

[silkster]

I think the reason that the ceiling isn't lowering is that so many of the decks are playing powerful answers like Force of Will. As soon as that's there, the next decks can play very powerful cards. I'm not convinced that Squire would get there so quickly, though I suppose Sunlance could be the stepping stone to Lab Man.

There have been some really interesting innovations, and I think doing away with a dozen or so problem cards would make a new season more diverse. Of the top of my head, I'd nix Force of Will, Force of Negation, Chancellor of the Annex, Black Lotus, Dark Depths, Mishra's Workshop, Channel in addition to the seven already banned.

Are you suggesting a whole season of backbuild, or a session where the rounds alternate backbuild - regular, with floor/ceiling decks as appropriate?

I'm thinking that we move on to the next season of feeling drawing from different "formats" after this round, and it might be fun to roll a new starting ceiling deck now that people have an idea of how it affects the rounds. For making that new deck, I'll post the lists I get by Friday morning at 11 EDT. I suppose if people want, they can submit for that this weekend by putting something like "proposed new ceiling deck" in the comment, but I'll see them while posting round 4, which might or might not matter to people.

Reminder that the deadline for this round is Wednesday at 11am EDT.

[dte]

I think the reason that the ceiling isn't lowering is that so many of the decks are playing powerful answers like Force of Will. As soon as that's there, the next decks can play very powerful cards.

I don't think that anymore, I think it is more on the concept of a ceiling season: everyone tries to play broad answers and/or a powerful, resilient combo.
So the ceiling deck present broad answers and/or a powerful, resilient combo.
you ban Fow & FoN, but if Foil goes in the ceiling deck, every combo is legal and now there isn't any other free counter to foil them. Leyline of anticipation + CotV makes any deck with lotus/moxen legal, etc.

What we saw up to now is every round full of powerfull decks, except one round because the ceiling deck came from a miscalculation, and was actually unable to beat 3*plains, squire - or even 3* mountain, squire. Yet next round was immediately back to full powerlevel. Because overall we play the best decks that still have a specific weakness defined by the answer in the ceiling deck.

I see it a bit as natural selection: whatever restriction you try to impose, we will find way to go back to full power. Because we only design decks that we think are good as possible. And that was very very interesting to see (for me at least, as I thought first that powerlevel would drop instead).

I'm not convinced that Squire would get there so quickly, though I suppose Sunlance could be the stepping stone to Lab Man.

From 3x plains, squire, the most catch-all cards that don't do anything are chancellor, FoN, and wasteland. so some would play it, and most would play around it, making them likely to appear in a ceiling deck. And any ceiling deck with chancellor or FoN makes lotus/Thoracle legal.

Are you suggesting a whole season of backbuild, or a session where the rounds alternate backbuild - regular, with floor/ceiling decks as appropriate?

An alternate session.
We play ceiling, and top deck becomes floor deck for backbuild. The top backbuild deck becomes ceiling for next round.
Here there would be a good tension betweeen the two: playing the narrowest answers that still beat a topdeck from the ceiling round, being ceiled by narrow answers from backbuild.

I would be very interested to see how such a system evolves. I also think it would force us to think outside of the box, and that the cardpool will change a lot, because backbuid forces to play odd cards.

it might be fun to roll a new starting ceiling deck now that people have an idea of how it affects the rounds. For making that new deck, I'll post the lists I get by Friday morning at 11 EDT. I suppose if people want, they can submit for that this weekend by putting something like "proposed new ceiling deck" in the comment, but I'll see them while posting round 4, which might or might not matter to people.

So here I think a starting ceiling deck affects only the starting round.
But in any case, I am completely convinced I will have a lot of fun playing what you end up chosing ;)

[silkster]

Okay, I'm convinced of the Squire -> Channex/FoN -> Lotus Thoracle pipeline.

An alternate session.
We play ceiling, and top deck becomes floor deck for backbuild. The top backbuild deck becomes ceiling for next round.
Here there would be a good tension betweeen the two: playing the narrowest answers that still beat a topdeck from the ceiling round, being ceiled by narrow answers from backbuild.

This does sound awesome and ridiculous. Does this still want to be Vintage format, or legacy, or smaller? And would you do this instead of (or just before) doing a ceiling season of smaller cardpools (like standard, modern, premodern, Masques block, all the Ravnicas, to name a few)?

[dte]

This does sound awesome and ridiculous. Does this still want to be Vintage format, or legacy, or smaller? And would you do this instead of (or just before) doing a ceiling season of smaller cardpools (like standard, modern, premodern, Masques block, all the Ravnicas, to name a few)?

Great that you liked the idea!
For me the larger the cardpool the better, so vintage or legacy, with a preference for legacy as we just played vintage. I think the alternating format fits better eternal.

There was recently a post from Tylert saying they would be interested in playing with smaller card pools. They're maybe not alone thinking that. Ceiling should be nice with smaller card pool. Maybe the comment section of the submission could be used to poll what players prefer (large/small, ceiling/alternance)?

[silkster]

193eb5ad0c0bf8b5796a7ee20364f69eed3592c26f1ba61d88fd63acae30fc05

[FTW]

Leyline of anticipation + CotV makes any deck with lotus/moxen legal, etc.

I'd been waiting a few rounds to play that. It seemed to fly under the radar and then hasn't been legal in a while. There was 1 round where Leyline + Lotus + Chalice + threat was legal and Chalice @ 0/1 would have swept, but it seemed too narrow so I submitted something else (maybe Thoracle).

Otherwise I agree. The power hasn't dropped as predicted.

The power level only dips when GoblinSmashmaster submits an underpowered Goblin deck or Asthereal has 2 minutes and submits a slower T3 deck with karoos. Then it becomes a puzzle to find the broadest answers that can't beat those threats, or the best combo that loses to their disruption. Usually we still find a fast busted deck. If the ceiling deck is too slow, you can even "help" the ceiling deck with tech like Eladamri's Vineyard or Mana Crypt.

The 1 time it really dropped was Show and Tell Empty the Warrensx3, which can't beat 3 basics + Squire or even Chancellor of the Dross + 3 Phage the Untouchable. Even that was just due to the forced goblin theme. Elemental Eruptionx3 beats a lot of decks.

I like the idea of either backbuild or alternating. Either way, you've been organizing these well!

[silkster]

Ceiling Season - Final Round

GoblinSmashmaster: Mountain, Mana Crypt, Magus of the Moon, Krark-Clan Grunt, comment: Goblin Tinkerer too smashy
Tirrit: Black Lotus, Sheltered Valley, Leatherback Baloth, Pithing Needle, comment:
dte: Chancellor of the Annex, Karakas, Black lotus, Wrenn and Realmbreaker, comment: Alternating in legacy
FTW: Chancellor of the Annex, Chrome Mox, Mutavault, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, comment: Reeplcheep & Taxes
Wrath of Pie: Shelldock Isle, Lion's Eye Diamond, Simian Spirit Guide, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, comment:
Silkster: Ancient Tomb, Black Lotus, Mana Vault, Bane of Bala Ged, comment: scared of Unsummon
Reeplcheep: Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender, Crystal Vein, Black Lotus, Blood Sun, comment: Copycat


After this, we'll do 10 rounds total of backbuild/ceiling (5 of each) in Legacy, with the same 7 cards banned. We'll roll a new starting deck, so please use the same entry form to submit a deck that you would like to be the very first FLOOR deck (we're starting with backbuild). I'll publish them on Friday and take the median deck (or one lower if even number).

[Reeplcheep]

Reeplcheep: Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender, Crystal Vein, Black Lotus, Blood Sun, comment: Copycat
I made the call that lots of people would lose to bloodmoon or artifact creature rather than lose to 5/5.

GoblinSmashmaster: Mountain, Mana Crypt, Magus of the Moon, Krark-Clan Grunt, comment: Goblin Tinkerer too smashy
Two threats LL

Tirrit: Black Lotus, Sheltered Valley, Leatherback Baloth, Pithing Needle, comment:
You get to attack first. LL

dte: Chancellor of the Annex, Karakas, Black lotus, Wrenn and Realmbreaker, comment: Alternating in legacy
Judge? I’m rusty on my layers knowledge but I think it’s LL.

FTW: Chancellor of the Annex, Chrome Mox, Mutavault, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, comment: Reeplcheep & Taxes
I have the bigger creature but no first strike. DD

Wrath of Pie: Shelldock Isle, Lion's Eye Diamond, Simian Spirit Guide, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, comment:
Blood Sun WW

Silkster: Ancient Tomb, Black Lotus, Mana Vault, Bane of Bala Ged, comment: scared of Unsummon
Blood sun doesn’t work. LL


8 L 2 D 2W for 8/36