I think then it's a draw, because you're limited by leyline to moving up the chain before making the next token which means if I can survive long enough I can eventually bounce every token:Originally Posted by dte
I accept that there's no way to win, so commit to leyline Karakas. (Which, since I'm going first I can do.)
t1, Karakas
t1, Foundry, pass
t2, first decision point: I think here you should pass because next turn you'll be in the same position but with more mana. so even if it's suboptimal we know that you have infinite time to set up which means you should start from the strongest position, so 7 mana instead of 6.
t2 pass
t3 my end step you make a token. If I bounce you can spend 4 (1 starting remaining) to make it a thopter. Letting me bounce it puts us back to your t2: My untapped Karakas+Leyline vs You with 7 Mana, foundry and no attackers
t3 attack me to 19
t4 my end step you can make a 1/1, and I'll bounce the flying 1/1, you can't afford an untap here. OR You can choose to promote the 1/1, which would let me bounce a 4/4 instead. OR you can choose to do nothing: **
t4 you attack me to 18
t5 pass, you can't make a token here because leyline would kill it. You can't promote because of karakas. So you can exit this turn with 1 token, 1 spare mana.
t5 onward: Attack into karakas, make one token by your next combat and be put in the same fork where you promote into my untap and I tag the token or just make a token which I also can hit with karakas
**t4 you attack me for 1, I go to bounce it, you promote it to a 4/4
t5 pass
t5 attack for four, I bounce, and then between now and my next turn you make a 1/1
t6 I bounce it, we're in a 1/1 karakas loop because you're out of mana to do the make->untap->promote trick you did the first time
Some additional wrinkles for the above:
Even with city dte can’t blackmail and Power sink x>5.
Costing dte 3 mana by casting sigarda into power sink is better than holding karakas up.
@4dogs, indeed, I did not thought about the legend rules for the tokens.
So it should be WD.
7. Wrath of Pie: Treetop Village, Golgari Rot Farm, Elixir of Immortality, Assassin's Trophy
1. silkster:Negate, Assassin's Trophy, Saprazzan Cove, Shark Typhoon DD
2. FourDogsinaHorseSuit: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Misdirection DD
3. Dooey: Containment Priest, Phyrexian Revoker, Outland Liberator, Swan Song DD
4. dte: City of Traitors, Retrofitter Foundry, Power Sink, Blackmail LL
5. Asthereal: Karakas, Leyline of Singularity, Barbed Shocker, Memory Lapse WL
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Quagnoth, Force of Negation LL
8. Symbi: Surrak Dragonclaw, Simic Growth Chamber, Treetop Village, Void Rend WW
9. RoosterCocoa: Sand Silos, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Memory Lapse, Abeyance WW
10. Reeplcheep: Elite Spellbinder, Fountain of Cho, Consign // Oblivion, Chancellor of the Annex WW
11. FTW: Chancellor of the Annex, Solitude, Restoration Angel, Flusterstorm DD - Slow Trophy (minimizing storm count) means that going all-in is really bad, so you just Solitude Treetop Village.
7w8d = 29 points
Trophy lives!
I put the results I saw into the spreadsheet. We're just missing summaries from Symbi and RoosterCocoa. Some disagreements about Quagnoth (one of them mine). We're almost ready to confirm bans for next week.
Round 4 still has one unresolved match, with Turn the Earth and Iona both claiming victory. I think Turn is always able to tuck Iona to fizzle the Unburial Rites, yes?
4CB Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.
1. silkster:Negate, Assassin's Trophy, Saprazzan Cove, Shark Typhoon
If you have shark typhoon in hand on my T4, I cast Surrak with my lands, void rend any tokens, and trophy can only stop 1 threat. If you cycle shark typhoon early, I wait until T4 then do Surrak + void rend. If you blow up a land early, I win with Surrak. WW 6-0, 6 total.
2. FourDogsinaHorseSuit: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Misdirection
Can't beat Karakas + Sigarda, LL 0-6, 6 total.
3. Dooey: Containment Priest, Phyrexian Revoker, Outland Liberator, Swan Song
Surrak just beats this. WW 6-0, 12 total.
4. dte: City of Traitors, Retrofitter Foundry, Power Sink, Blackmail
Blackmail ensures I never get simic growth chamber. Then retrofitter can beat Surrak without void rend backup. LL 0-6, 12 total.
5. Asthereal: Karakas, Leyline of Singularity, Barbed Shocker, Memory Lapse
Void rend Shocker and you can't stop treetop village. WW 6-0, 18 total.
6. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Quagnoth, Force of Negation
Can't beat karakas + Quagnoth. LL 0-6, 18 total.
7. Wrath of Pie: Treetop Village, Golgari Rot Farm, Elixir of Immortality, Assassin's Trophy
Trophy blows up all my stuff. LL 0-6, 18 total.
8. Symbi: Surrak Dragonclaw, Simic Growth Chamber, Treetop Village, Void Rend
That's me, teching against discard which wasn't played.
9. RoosterCocoa: Sand Silos, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Memory Lapse, Abeyance
You're too slow. WW 6-0, 24 total.
10. Reeplcheep: Elite Spellbinder, Fountain of Cho, Consign // Oblivion, Chancellor of the Annex
You cast spellbinder on T1 and bind Surrak. Then if I void rend, I can't cast Surrak at all and you consign the spellbinder to save it. Then I lose. If I Surrak in response, it gets consigned and I lose. If I wait to cast Surrak, the same thing happens. LL 0-6, 24 total.
11. FTW: Chancellor of the Annex, Solitude, Restoration Angel, Flusterstorm
If you cast resto + solitude early, I void rend resto then cast Surrak and attack with it while leavened treetop village as a blocker. If you sandbag, I can then attack with treetop village. This forces solitude + resto in response (Life totals 23-20). Next turn (17-23) I cast Surrak leaving BW in my mana pool. If you attack with solitude I block it and rend resto. So you attack with just resto (14-23). I then kill solitude on my next turn, then I have a 4 turn clock while you have a 5 turn clock, and leaving resto as a blocker doesn't help you. Edit: This is actually a draw because if I attack with treetop village, you cast resto and leave solitude. Then if I don't void rend immediately, treetop village dies and you have solitude for Surrak. If I do, you solitude the village and I don't have the mana for Surrak. DD 2-2, 26 total.
Last edited by Symbi; 11-24-2022 at 08:03 AM.
I did my best guess at RoosterCocoa's results. One of them disagrees with the other summary. There's also still two disagreements about Quagnoth (one of them is mine), but it doesn't look like the cards earning bans will change. They are:
Blackmail
Chancellor of the Annex
City of Traitors
Consign // Oblivion
Elite Spellbinder
Force of Negation
Fountain of Cho
Karakas
Leyline of Singularity
Misdirection
Power Sink
Quagnoth
Retrofitter Foundry
Sigarda, Host of Herons
I'll likely open the round tomorrow some time.
4CB Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.
Fun fact: Solitude is the only card that has been played in all five rounds so far.
Working out the disagreements:
Isn’t 9 mana a 6/6 shark and you only need a 5/5?
S, etb tapped G quagnoth
S add a counter G smashes to 16
S add a counter G smashes to 12
S add a counter G smashes to 8
S add a counter G smashes to 4
S taps for UUUU, pays GB for trophy and WRU UUUU for a 6/6 shark.
Shouldn’t this be WW silk?
Goblin edited their post, seems they agree on 3-3 vs dte.
If we both just deploy our cheapest threats, spellbinder kills on t8 and R casts Kozilek through chancellor and spellbinder taxes and with memory lapse up for consign when R has 15 mana, which 15-5+2= t12.
Memory lapse on spellbinder clears the chancellor trigger and postpones spellbinder 4 turns (to keep my U mana), but that gives R no answer to consign on kozilek.
WW 6-0 for me
Since containment priest has flash, and can attack before D casts liberator if D is OTD, D always gets in 10 attacks before Rs t11. WW Dooey
Based on your own math, sounds like a 5/5 Shark to me. WRU+UUUU=7 mana.
WL silk?
9 manas is for 5/5, 4 being taken by AT and cycling typhoon --> 3-3 between silk and gob.
Yes I thought the cycle was XU not X1U
Doesn't speak well for the card, always played and never succeeds.
It does make sense a bit, if you have plenty of mana, 2 cards for an effect slightly worse than PtE (which never saw play) doesn't sound so great.
I hoped comboing it with Chancellor of the Annex and Restoration Angel would be enough
(3 cards for 3 effects: Daze + 2 creatures, Daze + removal + creature, or even Daze + 2x removal + 2 creatures)
Still not good enough. Should not have gambled on a card that consistently missed the bar when other good decks were on the table.
Sometimes there is a lot of randomness. My deck that barely made 1 point last week would almost have made 5.1 this week.
Kozilek costs 10, so RoosterCocoa needs 12 mana total to play Lapse and Kozilek, which means 7 mana from the storage land, so Kozilek is cast on turn 9. From there, it can block and then attack and annihilate.
4CB Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.
D can always resolves liberator, using song if needed ==> 7 turns clock.
WW Dooey.
ROUND 6 OF SEASON 14: WUBRG is now open.
I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 6, and for fun I made a salted hash at https://emn178.github.io/online-tools/sha256.html which is 0f527872c5ad61b25c2a2dcee2f0604e6c37fbe9e0b3f99fcef58b23690e5468
[B]DEADLINE: Tuesday November 29th at 1:00pm Eastern Standard Time (GMT-5).
PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows:
silkster: Fire Shrine Keeper, Fire Sprites, Firehoof Cavalry, Backfire.
So with name, colon, and card tags around each card, and not above each other, and with your Username and 4CB S14R06 in the topic.
Usually you should keep an eye on the banned list, found in the second post and in the spreadsheet. Remember that the card pool is Vintage minus Unfinity.
After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.
Happy listbuilding!
PHP Code:name and 4CB S14R06
YOURNAME: [cards]A[/cards], [cards]B[/cards], [cards]C[/cards], [cards]D[/cards].
4CB Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.
My explanation is why it is WW not WL, assuming r answers Liberator. The first 2 sentences of dopey's are still correct if r doesn't answer Liberator.
Oh, you guys were counting Abeyance + Lapse as countering the Liberator. Makes sense.
We're up to 7 entries now, including mine, but still over 15 hours to go.
Up to 10 entries with just under 2 hours to go.
Still at 10 entries with 30 minutes to go. Missing jfb1337 (who missed last week) and RoosterCocoa (who hasn't posted since last week's submission). So maybe 10 is all we're going to get? I don't mind waiting, but I don't want to hold people up if they had planned specific time to review their matches.
Last edited by silkster; 11-29-2022 at 12:31 PM.
4CB Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.
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