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Thread: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

  1. #481

    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    4. Dooey: Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Den of the Bugbear, Mercadian Bazaar, Void Rend

    1. silkster: Spell Shrivel, Dreadhorde Invasion, Nullhide Ferox, Blood Baron of Vizkopa

    My answers beat your threats, WW.

    2. GoblinSmashmaster: Zirda, the Dawnwaker, Grim Monolith, Swan Song, Goblin Cannon

    Void rend on zirda, WW

    3. FTW: Solitude, Restoration Angel, Obscura Interceptor, Dryad Militant

    Disagreement. If you just attack with dryad, I wait until I have 12 mana to cast chandra twice. When I'm on the draw, this happens when I'm at 6 life. WW for me?

    5. Asthereal: Grapeshot, Helm of Awakening, Sensei's Divining Top, Sensei's Divining Top

    Void rend on helm, WW

    6. jfb1337: Witherbloom Apprentice, Chain of Smog, Mox Jet, Teferi, Time Raveler

    Teferi stops void rend, LL

    7. dte: Mishra's Workshop, Lodestone Golem, Lupine Prototype, Lupine Prototype

    I think I lose this one, I can't see a line that stops your threats fast enough. LL

    8. Wrath of Pie: Kor Haven, Selesnya Sanctuary, Generous Gift, Elixir of Immortality

    I don't think I fully understand this one. You can generous gift my chandra after I give you one emblem, and you can stop the 3/3 with kor haven. Then you can slowly make infinite 3/3s by gifting your own elixir in response to it's activation? But you can't do that and also activate kor haven on the same turn. I haven't mathed it out but I think the fact that I have 2 threats means I can win this one. I lead on my two lands. If you kill either one I can't attack with den, but then I can play chandra and give you 3 emblems before you can gift again, which requires you to elixir every turn to outrace with lifegain, which requires you to not gift again of activate kor, which means I get 2 3/3s, which then also outrace 5 life per turn? Weird matchup. Tentative WW.

    So far I see 10W4L, but 2 of those wins are disputed and another 2 are poorly understood.

  2. #482
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    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    My scores for round 13:

    1. silkster: Spell Shrivel, Dreadhorde Invasion, Nullhide Ferox, Blood Baron of Vizkopa LL
    2. GoblinSmashmaster: Zirda, the Dawnwaker, Grim Monolith, Swan Song, Goblin Cannon WL
    3. FTW: Solitude, Restoration Angel, Obscura Interceptor, Dryad Militant WW
    I have 2 mana extra, so I can recast Helm. And if you try to bounce a Top it's free to recast so it doesn't matter. Of course bouncing one of the 1000 Grapeshots won't help either.
    4. Dooey: Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Den of the Bugbear, Mercadian Bazaar, Void Rend LL
    Void Rend on my Helm with a Top on the stack will do.
    5. Asthereal: Grapeshot, Helm of Awakening, Sensei's Divining Top, Sensei's Divining Top <-me
    The fact that this is still legal is both funny and terrible at the same time.
    6. jfb1337: Witherbloom Apprentice, Chain of Smog, Mox Jet, Teferi, Time Raveler WL
    7. dte: Mishra's Workshop, Lodestone Golem, Lupine Prototype, Lupine Prototype WW
    Golem doesn't stop the artifacts and I have the extra mana for when I want to cast Grapeshot.
    8. Wrath of Pie: Kor Haven, Selesnya Sanctuary, Generous Gift, Elixir of Immortality DD
    Gift my Helm in response to the first Top, then I can Grapeshot for 3 and try to attack with the elephant but that's never fast enough.
    EDIT: But Wrath can never make a 3/3 himself, as he'd reshuffle both Elixir and removal, after which he draws Elixir first, and I'd be able to go off.
    So I do nothing and just wait. Wrath also waits. And we stare.

    Total: 20 points


    Disagreement:
    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    3. FTW: Solitude, Restoration Angel, Obscura Interceptor, Dryad Militant

    5. Asthereal: Obscura on Helm should stop your combo while Dryad beats. WW 6-0
    I make Helm. If you bounce it, I let the bounce resolve. On an empty stack I recast the Helm. Then I go off.
    Bouncing a Top won't help because they're free with Helm on the board, so those I can always recast.
    You don't have the mana to both use Restoration and Obscura, so double bounce isn't an option for your deck.
    Perhaps also relevant: the bounce only works on spells that are on the stack, so I can keep only one spell on the stack at a time and be safe.

    EDIT: Solved. FTW agreed to the above.
    Last edited by Asthereal; 02-09-2023 at 05:09 AM.
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  3. #483
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    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    1. silkster: Spell Shrivel, Dreadhorde Invasion, Nullhide Ferox, Blood Baron of Vizkopa
    6-0. Invasion does not beat 2 lupine prototypes.
    6

    2. GoblinSmashmaster: Zirda, the Dawnwaker, Grim Monolith, Swan Song, Goblin Cannon
    0-6. Wrong disruption on my side. Anyway most other would have fallen for swan song.
    6

    3. FTW: Solitude, Restoration Angel, Obscura Interceptor, Dryad Militant
    6-0. You do not gain anything by starting. I cast Lodestone. If you answer by obscura + connive, I will just cast it again next turn, and obscura + dryad will lose to my 3 beaters. So you do not. I pass. If you do nothing, golem beats you. So you have to use your 5 manas and remove it, and you keep angel + solitude. They lose to 2 lupine prototypes.
    12

    4. Dooey: Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Den of the Bugbear, Mercadian Bazaar, Void Rend
    6-0. I am too fast.
    18

    5. Asthereal: Grapeshot, Helm of Awakening, Sensei's Divining Top, Sensei's Divining Top
    0-6. Wrong disruption on my side again.
    18

    6. jfb1337: Witherbloom Apprentice, Chain of Smog, Mox Jet, Teferi, Time Raveler
    0-6. Wrong disruption on my side still. I had for a long while a similar deck, but with defense grid instead of Tefeiri, and it kept losing to PtE/StP or other cheap removal. Tefeiri is so much better, and the bounce is great in this format too.
    18

    7. dte: Mishra's Workshop, Lodestone Golem, Lupine Prototype, Lupine Prototype
    Me, playing good beaters but wrong disruption.

    8. Wrath of Pie: Kor Haven, Selesnya Sanctuary, Generous Gift, Elixir of Immortality
    6-0, I am just too fast. But I like the deck!
    24

  4. #484

    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    In fact vs FTW I should be DD. If you play out a threat you can no longer stop my combo.

  5. #485
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    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by jfb1337 View Post
    In fact vs FTW I should be DD. If you play out a threat you can no longer stop my combo.
    Militant for G is quite cheap for a threat. Obscura for WBUR does need a discard though, and then Solitude doesn't have an exile card anymore.
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  6. #486

    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    Last edited by Wrath of Pie; 02-08-2023 at 09:43 PM.

  7. #487
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    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Why would Den be a problem? It does not have haste.
    Options for Dooey:
    T1 chandra:
    T1 Den, Chandra
    WoP 19, kor + gift, pool RGB.
    T2 attack, WoP 16, MB
    WoP15, play elixir, sanctuary.
    WoP12, MB1
    WoP16, draw gift, play kor.
    WoP13, MB2
    WoP12, draw elixir, play it.
    MB3, attack, activate elixir and destroy it in response, trade elephants --> R in pool, WoP 17
    WoP16, draw gift
    MB4 -> gift it
    WoP 15, draw and activate elixir --> WoP20
    From now on, WoP can just draw and play elixir every turn for infinite life. Then he makes infinite elephant (destroy kor, shuffle it back, rinse and repeat).

    If Dooey want to go for Den.
    T1 Den
    Kor + elixir
    MB, attack with Den is not possible, as WoP can respond with gift + activation on elixir and trading den vs elephant. The lone goblin does not matter, and chandra cannot come before 4-5 more turns.
    Starting with MB doesn't help either.

    6-0 for WoP?

  8. #488
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    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    Asthereal vs WoP, shouldn't it be 2-2?

    WoP cannot make a 3-3 without exposing himself to infinite damage.

  9. #489

    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    Why would Den be a problem? It does not have haste.
    Options for Dooey:
    T1 chandra:
    T1 Den, Chandra
    WoP 19, kor + gift, pool RGB.
    T2 attack, WoP 16, MB
    WoP15, play elixir, sanctuary.
    WoP12, MB1
    WoP16, draw gift, play kor.
    WoP13, MB2
    WoP12, draw elixir, play it.
    MB3, attack, activate elixir and destroy it in response, trade elephants --> R in pool, WoP 17
    WoP16, draw gift
    MB4 -> gift it
    WoP 15, draw and activate elixir --> WoP20
    From now on, WoP can just draw and play elixir every turn for infinite life. Then he makes infinite elephant (destroy kor, shuffle it back, rinse and repeat).

    If Dooey want to go for Den.
    T1 Den
    Kor + elixir
    MB, attack with Den is not possible, as WoP can respond with gift + activation on elixir and trading den vs elephant. The lone goblin does not matter, and chandra cannot come before 4-5 more turns.
    Starting with MB doesn't help either.

    6-0 for WoP?
    I don't have to activate den and go for an attack immediately, I can sit around building up mana. If I build up enough mana to activate den, cast chandra, and keep my starting void rend mana all in one turn, I'm pretty sure I win, so WoP has to blink first (or maybe neither of us can blink and we draw?). WoP doesn't have any threats until they gift their own permanent, but once they do that, I have a window to get chandra out and put multiple (how many? not clear) emblems on before they redraw gift, and/or kill their 3/3. If they gift my permanent, I now have a 3/3 and they must either use kor every turn, restricting their mana, or take 3 every turn. With 2 chandra emblems, this ties 5 life every turn, with 3 chandra emblems, this outraces. But they also need to stop me from making more chandra emblems, which means they need to either gift or attack chandra. If they gift, I now have 2 3/3s and it is again questionable whether I can outrace 5 life per turn. If they attack, can I trade my 3/3? The game tree is both wide and deep here.

  10. #490
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    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooey View Post
    I don't have to activate den and go for an attack immediately, I can sit around building up mana. If I build up enough mana to activate den, cast chandra, and keep my starting void rend mana all in one turn, I'm pretty sure I win, so WoP has to blink first (or maybe neither of us can blink and we draw?). WoP doesn't have any threats until they gift their own permanent, but once they do that, I have a window to get chandra out and put multiple (how many? not clear) emblems on before they redraw gift, and/or kill their 3/3. If they gift my permanent, I now have a 3/3 and they must either use kor every turn, restricting their mana, or take 3 every turn. With 2 chandra emblems, this ties 5 life every turn, with 3 chandra emblems, this outraces. But they also need to stop me from making more chandra emblems, which means they need to either gift or attack chandra. If they gift, I now have 2 3/3s and it is again questionable whether I can outrace 5 life per turn. If they attack, can I trade my 3/3? The game tree is both wide and deep here.
    For every mana you store, WoP gets 5 life, so waiting is not great. And if you wait, you can only give 1 emblem to WoP, as the way he would start is EoT destroy one of your land, his turn shuffle and draw elixir. Your turn you have to play chandra or second land is blown. Then 1 emblem, and chandra is destroyed.

    I don't think you can ever get anything by waiting it out.

  11. #491

    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    Asthereal vs WoP, shouldn't it be 2-2?

    WoP cannot make a 3-3 without exposing himself to infinite damage.
    Turns out doing nothing is more powerful than it seems for Storm pilots.

  12. #492
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    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Turns out doing nothing is more powerful than it seems for Storm pilots.
    Very true in actual legacy games too.

  13. #493
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    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    Vs dte: Once I saw Lupines I kept thinking you had to play out your hand, but making just Lodestone forces Solitude while taxing me off Dryad, so I won't have enough bodies to kill both 5/5s (if I could make Dryad then I would be able to draw with double block 3/4 + 3/2 vs 5/5, then 3/x + 2/1 vs 5/5).
    Edit: Does the Evoke Solitude still get taxed by Lodestone, or is that cost replaced? If its replaced then I can Resto after Golem is exiled but before sacrifice (no tax), then play Dryad to draw.

    Vs Asthereal: Agree. Didn't notice you have enough mana to recast Helm and still combo off.

    Vs jfb: Normally I could Solitude first and then Obscura (can connive & discard nothing), but Teferi forces me to play Obscura before Solitude, which means I cannot make Dryad if you do nothing. DD

    Vs Dooey: If you wait till 12 mana & 6 life, instead of Obscura I can make EOT Solitude + Resto and attack Chandra or you. Void Rend can only stop 1.

  14. #494

    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    For every mana you store, WoP gets 5 life, so waiting is not great. And if you wait, you can only give 1 emblem to WoP, as the way he would start is EoT destroy one of your land, his turn shuffle and draw elixir. Your turn you have to play chandra or second land is blown. Then 1 emblem, and chandra is destroyed.

    I don't think you can ever get anything by waiting it out.
    Yep, 1 chandra emblem is clearly not enough. I think LL for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Vs Dooey: If you wait till 12 mana & 6 life, instead of Obscura I can make EOT Solitude + Resto and attack Chandra or you. Void Rend can only stop 1.
    Chandra goes to 5 to kill dryad, you put out solitude and resto, I void rend the resto, solitude hits chandra to 2 or me to 3, chandra -2 kills solitude, I kill you with den?

  15. #495
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    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Edit: Does the Evoke Solitude still get taxed by Lodestone, or is that cost replaced? If its replaced then I can Resto after Golem is exiled but before sacrifice (no tax), then play Dryad to draw.
    Evoking is taxed.
    One of the two certain things ;)

  16. #496
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    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    Asthereal vs WoP, shouldn't it be 2-2?

    WoP cannot make a 3-3 without exposing himself to infinite damage.
    Oh right, he needs to reshuffle both Elixir and the removal, and he'll draw the Elirir first, after which he'd die.
    So I do nothing and wait until he does a thing, be he can't, so we stare.
    Good point. Adjusting scores now.


    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Vs Asthereal: Agree. Didn't notice you have enough mana to recast Helm and still combo off.
    Cool. It's a really cheap combo indeed. I can go off through Spell Pierce, which is why last round I played Spell Snare over Pierce as a support spell with the TKS's.
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  17. #497
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    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooey View Post
    Chandra goes to 5 to kill dryad, you put out solitude and resto, I void rend the resto, solitude hits chandra to 2 or me to 3, chandra -2 kills solitude, I kill you with den?
    The -X mode is quite useful in saving you counters to kill 2 in a row. Agree.

  18. #498

    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    I filled in results for GoblinSmashmaster. Infinite combo is usually pretty easy to figure out, thankfully. I didn't understand why Lodestone Golem didn't stop the combo, but I figured it out while typing out my question in detail.

    The following are now banned:
    Chain of Smog
    Chandra, Awakened Inferno
    Den of the Bugbear
    Goblin Cannon
    Grim Monolith
    Lodestone Golem
    Lupine Prototype
    Mercadian Bazaar
    Mishra's Workshop
    Mox Jet
    Swan Song
    Teferi, Time Raveler
    Void Rend
    Witherbloom Apprentice
    Zirda, the Dawnwaker.
    4CB Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.

  19. #499

    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    ROUND 14 OF SEASON 14: WUBRG is now open.

    I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 14, and for fun I made a salted hash at https://emn178.github.io/online-tools/sha256.html which is f4de25332297688c51a1f1c42cd9a1ce5dbb67a16da33bbd8b8ecb92b9573bda

    [B]DEADLINE: Tuesday, February 14th at 1:00pm Eastern Standard Time (GMT-5).
    PLEASE NOTE:
    The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
    Please send your deck as follows:

    silkster: Smoke, Smoke Teller, Smokespew Invoker, Fire-Lit Thicket.

    So with name, colon, and card tags around each card, and not above each other, and with your Username and 4CB S14R14 in the topic.

    Usually you should keep an eye on the banned list, found in the second post and in the spreadsheet. Remember that the card pool is Vintage minus Unfinity.

    After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
    If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

    Happy listbuilding!

    PHP Code:
    name and 4CB S14R14
    YOURNAME
    : [cards]A[/cards], [cards]B[/cards], [cards]C[/cards], [cards]D[/cards]. 
    Note: Phyrexia All Will Be One is legal now.
    4CB Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.

  20. #500

    Re: 4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

    We're at 6 entries, missing FTW and GoblinSmashmaster from the recent regulars. They're both usually active in these hours, so I'm going to go climbing and grocery shopping, then post the lists around 6pm EST (~5 hours from now), or a bit earlier if I get both.
    4CB Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.

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