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Thread: Mono W Initiative Stompy

  1. #1
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    Mono W Initiative Stompy

    Apparently this deck is all rage right now, putting up results left and right with a win percentage against the format to back it up. It's odd not to have a discussion thread for that.

    Sample decklist

    Most people have adopted SFM by now, but there are still great differences between the lists.

    Your thoughts on the deck/current lists?

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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    I saw this deck that was also running Palace Jailer.
    Watching them lock the game up and get value off Monarch and Initiative was pretty impressive.
    This was before Unfinity was fully spoiled, but the player was saying they were interested in putting Attractions into the list to go all the way into "out of game" effects
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    This version has impressive win rates against Tier 1 decks: https://mtgmeta.io/decks/29417

    8x tax effect (4 Esper Sentinel, 4 Thalia) seems strong against a format of Brainstorms. It also has 8x Stp (4 Swords, 4 Solitude) vs creatures, when Stp currently answers the best fair creatures (Murktide, Uro) and combo creature (Marit Lage), so Swords effects are well-positioned.

    White creature-based stompy was always good at taxing but typically lacked card advantage. The main way to get card advantage was the Soldier mechanic, so Soldier Stompy was the dominant archetype. Solitude and the modal land improved threat density. Now initiative puts card advantage onto midrange white creatures. The initiative mechanic is a bit too 1-sided if you can back it up with prison/protection.

    ThrabenU trophies with a SFM version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnthWhkI__A
    ThrabenU on earlier version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e9eiYAPnLk
    ThrabenU 4-1 on Winota Boros version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unyn7d1d9Gg

    The Boros version seems more meme. Mono white looks promising.

    Radiant Solar looks weak. Archon of Emeria, Elite Spellbinder, or Anointed Peacekeeper offer good variety for 3-mana hate creatures.
    Last edited by FTW; 11-30-2022 at 01:55 PM.

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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    I expect the win percentage to go down a bit once the format has adapted to it. E.g. people are starting to run Torpor Orb now.

    The Initiative is so strong because it gives you immediate CA in form of a basic land, which ensures you your next land drop as well while negating all card disadvantage from using fast mana like Moxen or Lotus, and putting massive pressue on the opponent with the two +2/+2 counters and the 5 life loss the next turn. A T1 White Plum Adventurer turns into a pseudo-vigiliance 5/5 beater on T2. Combine that with Trap and your opponent is already down 15 life at T3, with White Plum threatening lethal on T4 -all with no further mana investment, so you can start playing other stuff as early as T2. White Stompy decks never had access to threats this fast before. And it isn't like Dungeoneer isn't shabby, either, with its explore mechanic and pro creature attack trigger.

    Archon of Emeria is really strong, but I'm not too sold on the other 3-drop options yet. They're all cute, but don't feel as impactful as the rest of deck. There's probably streamline potential there.

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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    Good points.

    The core slots seem to be

    //Mana: 28+
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Emeria's Call
    1-2 Karakas
    x Plains

    //Creatures: 16
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 White Plume Adventurer
    4 Seasoned Dungeoneer
    4 Solitude


    Most players are on Chalice instead of 1 drops
    //Prison: 4
    4 Chalice of the Void

    That leaves about 10-12 other slots. Although some builds trim on Thalia, Solitude or Petal to create space.

    Many are on the Stoneforge package:
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    1 Kaldra Compleat
    0-1 Lion Sash
    0-1 Umezawa's Jitte
    0-1 Batterskull

    Some are on the Saga package:
    4 Urza's Saga
    1 Shadowspear

    The packages are cute but also limit density of disruptive creatures. The remaining slots seem up for grabs, with a range of disruptive options:
    Spirit of the Labyrinth
    Archon of Emeria
    Elite Spellbinder
    Anointed Peacekeeper
    Cloudsteel Kirin
    Palace Jailer
    Touch the Spirit Realm
    Wasteland
    Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire
    Timeless Dragon
    The Wandering Emperor

    Multiples of Eiganjo are common now. But I think basic Plains will prove more valuable long-term. All threats are white so you can't afford to get hated off white.

    The SFM package is popular for boosting threat density. Is that better than the disruption?

    Archon of Emeria seems very strong at slowing opponent down enough for the engine to take over.

    Timeless Dragon is a great card in general but not seeing much play yet.

    Flickerwisp is unplayed but has good interactions, retaking the Initiative via ETB trigger or flying combat. It is weak to Torpor Orb though. Touch the Spirit Realm is good flicker tech that also answers Torpor or flying attackers.

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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    Emeria's Call is a card choice I'm not sure I fully understand, it looks like Chrome Mox food that can also be a land? Is casting it just for the memes then?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dissection View Post
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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    Emeria's Call is a card choice I'm not sure I fully understand, it looks like Chrome Mox food that can also be a land? Is casting it just for the memes then?
    It's the former, pitch fodder for Chrome Mox that doubles as land, if necessary. You would very rarely cast the actual spell.

    Same reason why Red Stompy runs Shatterskull Smashing. It's about slot efficiency.

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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    Emeria's Call is a card choice I'm not sure I fully understand, it looks like Chrome Mox food that can also be a land? Is casting it just for the memes then?
    Spell lands decrease mulligans, thus directly increasing CA. This is why every deck that can plays them; getting better while cantrip cartel does not get better.

    Now the white spell lands are pretty worthless on the spell side as compared to a burn spell, but you have up to 12 ways to pitch them (Mox, Solitude, March).

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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    Currently very few builds are on March of Otherworldly Light. Sometimes 2 copies in the SB. I expect this to increase as the meta adjusts. March is such a powerful and flexible card, especially with the MDFC to pitch for white.

    Threats to watch out for...

    Torpor Orb/Dress Down stopping abilities. They're also good against Doomsday, Yorion D&T, 4c Yorion, Goblins, and Esper Vial so they should see play. March pitching 1 card cleanly answers them without loss of tempo.

    Humility could enter UWr sideboards if they're on the walker plan. March answers this too.

    EOT Brazen Borrower, ambushing to steal the Initiative and/or bouncing an accelerated creature. March handles flash creatures. Even Marit Lage.

    T1 DRC with fast Delirium, threatening to steal the Initiative. March cleanly answers it.

    Urza's Saga -> Meekstone (lol, not completely impossible vs 3/xs). March kills Saga before it does anything.

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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    //Mana: 28+
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Emeria's Call
    1-2 Karakas
    x Plains

    So, FTW and friends, how many plains are supposed to be here? I would probably lean towards 2x karakas depending on the number of plains. Since we search for plains fairly regularly, we want a certain minimum of them of them though.

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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    It depends. The deck is new. There isn't a stock build yet. That's the rough core common to most builds with strong online results.

    Many lists are on
    2 Karakas
    2 Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire
    5 Plains

    29 mana sources total, leaving 11 slots after the core. Then the Stoneforge package often takes another 6-7 slots, leaving only 4-5 flex slots for disruptive creatures.

    But some lists run more basic Plains and fewer nonbasics.
    Some run colorless utility lands (Wasteland, Urza's Saga) and only 4 Plains.

    It's not clear what is optimal yet.

  12. #12
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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Currently very few builds are on March of Otherworldly Light. Sometimes 2 copies in the SB. I expect this to increase as the meta adjusts. March is such a powerful and flexible card, especially with the MDFC to pitch for white.

    Threats to watch out for...

    Torpor Orb/Dress Down stopping abilities. They're also good against Doomsday, Yorion D&T, 4c Yorion, Goblins, and Esper Vial so they should see play. March pitching 1 card cleanly answers them without loss of tempo.

    Humility could enter UWr sideboards if they're on the walker plan. March answers this too.

    EOT Brazen Borrower, ambushing to steal the Initiative and/or bouncing an accelerated creature. March handles flash creatures. Even Marit Lage.

    T1 DRC with fast Delirium, threatening to steal the Initiative. March cleanly answers it.

    Urza's Saga -> Meekstone (lol, not completely impossible vs 3/xs). March kills Saga before it does anything.
    March seems good and nuking Sagas for should be pretty decent. The deck has alot of mana due to the Initiative, although I wouldn't go all-out on the pitching since the deck is already quite pitch-hungry.

    One of the neat things about Touch the Spirit Realm that I've just realized is that you can pitch-play Solitude, then pay 1W to flicker it in response to keep it around and get another StP ETB. That's pretty nifty.

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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    Plan A should be to pay for March. But it's nice that you can choose to pitch cards. The Initiative is about tempo. Opponents will try to disrupt it with tempo tricks, stopping the trigger or stealing the initiative. March lets you choose to trade cards for tempo, protecting the Initiative when you need to.

    Example 1:
    You cast White Plume. Fair blue player flashes Dress Down. You can exile with March for W (exiling 1 card), then still get the Initiative. That means you only need W open to protect against potential Dress Down, instead of needing 2W extra (i.e. opponent gains 5 Time Walks) or missing the Initiative (get Elked). Pitch is risky vs blue but can also prevent blowout.

    Example 2:
    On the draw. Plains go. Nonblue opponent plays Torpor. You can EOT March exiling Torpor for W (exiling 1 card), then untap and play White Plume on curve. No tempo loss.

    Of course it works as a fair card too.

    Touch the Spirit Realm is very flexible. Flicker uncounterably protects Dungeoneer from removal and steals the Initiative back. You could also do the Solitude trick, get a 2nd equip with Stoneforge, exile & regain the Monarch with Palace Jailer... Or it can just be fair Oblivion Ring.

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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    Challenge results showed top players came ready to beat Stompy: https://www.mtgo.com/en/mtgo/decklis...-12-0412499782

    W Stompy players shifted off Stoneforge package to play more disruptive creatures and the very techy Touch the Spirit Realm, but their SBs were not geared towards hate brought against them. Many wasted slots on Empty-Shrine Kannushi for the mirror.

    1st place deck had 4x Dress Down in the SB. Touch is good against Torpor but weaker against flash Dress Down. You have to flicker to re-enter after Dress Down dies, then you're still down tempo and a card. None of the SBs had March of Otherworldly Light. Would that have helped the tempo at least? Even worse for cards though.

    The top Delver deck ran 2 Unchained Berserker. Not even Blood Knight, but a 2-drop that can attack through X/3s, steal the initiative back, and race 3/xs. None of the Stompy players came ready to fight protection creatures.

    Another deck played Anarchy. The hate is here.

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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    European Legacy Masters Winner
    Winner Samuel Zahorcak

    maindeck
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    2 Anointed Peacekeeper
    4 Elite Spellbinder
    4 White Plume Adventurer
    3 Touch the Spirit Realm
    4 Seasoned Dungeoneer
    2 Palace Jailer
    4 Solitude
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    2 Karakas
    1 Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire
    3 Plains
    3 Cavern of Souls
    4 Emeria's Call // Emeria, Shattered Skyclave

    sideboard
    2 Faerie Macabre
    2 Containment Priest
    2 Aven Mindcensor
    3 Empty-Shrine Kannushi
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Loran of the Third Path
    On a different note, I'm interested to see how Archon of Absolution would perform in SBs. It should have some more utility compared to Kannushi.

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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    Great white Stompy get attention - i mean i already posted at september my take on White Eldrazi. It should perform nearly equal - the current Mono W Initiative is more all in in terms of Mana and throwing a T1 cc2-3 card onto the field. I think i would still find some place for some copies of Eldrazi Displacer, cause you have the mana and the ability to flicker White Plume Adventurer, Palace Jailer, Solitude, Elite Spellbinder/Peacekeeper etc isnt bad - Displacer alone also handle creature from opponent.

    Overall great that stompy shell get some cool results - on the other hand, players will have you on the radar now and are more prepared, which will make it a bit harder
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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    Archon is interesting. It seems better against other decks, but worse against the mirror on the draw, due the high mana cost. Kannushi is a cheap T1 response on the draw.

    Archon would be hilarious vs Mentor (tax on token attacks, blocks the biggest attacker, protection from white removal). That's quite niche though.

    Displacer could be good tech. It's much slower and grindier than Touch the Spirit Realm, which is more of a tempo play. They have advantages in different scenarios.

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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    It depends. The deck is new. There isn't a stock build yet. That's the rough core common to most builds with strong online results.

    Many lists are on
    2 Karakas
    2 Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire
    5 Plains

    29 mana sources total, leaving 11 slots after the core. Then the Stoneforge package often takes another 6-7 slots, leaving only 4-5 flex slots for disruptive creatures.

    But some lists run more basic Plains and fewer nonbasics.
    Some run colorless utility lands (Wasteland, Urza's Saga) and only 4 Plains.

    It's not clear what is optimal yet.
    My current list would be something like this:

    // Deck: White Stompy 2022 Winter Edition (60)

    // Lands 24
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cavern of Souls
    2 City of Traitors
    2 Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire
    2 Karakas
    6 Plains
    4 Wasteland

    // Creatures 26
    4 Archon of Emeria
    2 Eldrazi Displacer
    4 Esper Sentinel
    2 Palace Jailer
    2 Seasoned Dungeoneer
    4 Solitude
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 White Plume Adventurer

    // Artifacts 10
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lotus Petal
    2 Mox Diamond

    // Sideboard
    SB: 2 Cathar Commando
    SB: 2 Containment Priest
    SB: 1 Loran of the Third Path
    SB: 1 March of Otherworldly Light
    SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
    SB: 2 Selfless Squire
    SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 2 Swords to Plowshares

    Its overall more land heavy and less turbo/all in than the current 8 Mox Version, i played stompy a lot over the years and the good old Sylvan Plug times showed, that balance matters, cause while it is cool to jam 8 double mana lands (tomb/city) and max Mox, it also tends to Mulligan more and quickly got out of tempo if the start gets disrupted (and the time for unprepared meta is over with current results).

    With Archon of Emeria i still like the additional Wasteland Option to attack enemy manabase, which could be good for mirror too - but with Esper Sentinel i got also see Urza's Saga with some Utility working.

    Esper Sentinel - why not, a 1 drop that disrupt or draw some cards and could be caverned as a human into chalice isnt so bad overall and works well with stacking taxing like thalia, archon, wasteland etc.

    I am a great fan of Eldrazi Displacer in a white stompy shell, cause flicker each turn is super strong. It's not a white card, which is bad for Solitude but less critical without Chrome Mox - on the other hand its a little bonus if meta/mirror techs goes for protection white and yes @FTW Touch the Spirit Realm is the better Tempo Card - but as i said, tempo may not be the answer once meta adapts and opponent knew the deck cards and how to play against the shell.

    Sideboard is a quick draft and while i really like Loran of the Thord Path, i feel that Cathar Commando could be the better tech vs Orb & Co, while also function as a flash blocker/attacker at mirror (to gain Initiative) or vs Walkers etc.

    March of Otherworldly Light is still a good flexible solution too.

    Selfless Squire is more of a pet card but nobody will see it coming and it can quickly swing some games if timed well.
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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    Related in a big way to this deck, it's crazy to me that Brainstorm/FoW/Ponder now have competition for being the most-played nonland card in Lotus Petal (albeit a mana card), in the last two weeks. Not saying it'll stay that way, but I don't remember that ever happening, or Brainstorm being at 42%.

    Last edited by Scott; 12-09-2022 at 11:04 PM.

  20. #20
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    Re: Mono W Initiative Stompy

    I wonder when the geniuses at Wizards start talking about putting the W Initiative cards on a watch list. What if Brainstorm and FoW dipped 8-12%?? Does that constitute the format was being warped?
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