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Thread: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

  1. #1

    [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Undermountain Adventurer is very underrated (largely because its not on MTGO). In addition to giving us Initiative, its a solid body and has a very relevent abilty. I actually think the card is strong enough to build a deck around...

    Green Initiative Stompy

    //Spells
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Once Upon A Time
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Grist, the Hunger Tide
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Trinisphere

    //Threats
    4 Undermountain Adventurer
    1 Allosaurus Shepherd
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Outland Liberator
    1 Collector Ouphe
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Tireless Tracker
    1 Malanthrope
    1 Endurance
    1 Shifting Ceratops
    1 Questing Beast
    1 Elder Gargaroth
    1 Avenging Hunter
    1 Old One Eye

    //Mana
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    3 Boseiju, Who Endures
    3 Turntimber Symbiosis
    3 Snow-Covered Forest
    1 Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Lotus Petal

    //Sideboard
    3 Choke
    3 Force of Vigor
    2 Endurance
    2 Veil of Summer
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Toxicrene
    1 Run Afoul
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Mindbreak Trap

    I am curious if there are any excellent anticombo or powerful but narrow green creatures that warrant a maindeck or sideboard slot as potential Zenith targets. Fiend Artisan is probably too slow and Collector Ouphe could easily be moved to the board due to its nonbo with Chrome Mox but its strength against a wide variety of opposing decks made me want to maindeck it. Green has some interesting fight based removal options as well that should probably be slotted in somewhere. A light white splash for more initiative creatures or a light red splash to play Caves of Chaos Adventurer and some Minsc and Boo and Pyroblasts in the board is an option, but splashing also makes the deck less consistent.

    Edit: I have since switched over to the red splash alluded to above in the OP for the two very powerful threats, Minsc & Boo and Caves of Choas Adventurer as well as to be able to abuse SSG and win games off of Blood Moon.

    Red Green Initiative Stompy

    //Disruption
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Blood Moon
    2 Trinisphere
    2 Once Upon A Time

    //Threats
    4 Fable of the Mirror Breaker
    4 Minsc & Boo
    4 Undermountain Adventurer
    4 Caves of Choas Adventurer
    4 Fury

    //Mana
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    3 Lotus Petal (Chrome Mox or more lands could also work)
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Wooded Foothills
    2 Snow-Covered Mountain
    2 Snow-Covered Forest
    1 Shatterskull Smashing
    1 Boseiju, Who Endures
    1 Taiga

    //Sideboard
    3 Choke
    3 Force of Vigor
    3 Endurance
    2 Dead/Gone
    1 Blood Moon

    I am still testing Once Upon a Time (as just a 2 of for now) to get a better sense of how often Once Upon a Time fails to find something relevant in this list. Itís possible Once Upon a Time proves to be quite effective as it substantially increases the probability of being able to open with a Sol Land + ESG/SSG + Threat on turn one, Once Upon A Time is able to grab any of those three pieces that you need to make this play.

    I think overall Fable of the Mirror Breaker is a much stronger card than Bonecrusher Giant as it fills several different roles. However if Once Upon a Time proves very effective and becomes a staple 4 of, replacing some Fables for a creature like Giant makes sense.

    Below is the green list but incorporating Natural Order as this manabase is perfectly suitable for NO if we stay mono green.

    Mono Green NO Initiative Stompy

    //Spells
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Natural Order
    1 Grist, the Hunger Tide

    //Creatures
    4 Undermountain Adventurer
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Allosaurus Shepherd
    1 Collector Ouphe
    1 Cankerbloom
    1 Elvish Visionary
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Llanowar Visionary
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Tireless Tracker
    1 Endurance
    1 Malanthrope
    1 Shifting Ceratops
    1 Questing Beast
    1 Elder Gargaroth
    1 Atraxa, Grand Unifier
    1 Progenitus
    1 Old One Eye

    //Mana
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    3 Boseiju, Who Endures
    3 Turntimber Symbiosis
    3 Snow-Covered Forest
    1 Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth

    //Sideboard
    3 Choke
    3 Force of Vigor
    2 Endurance
    2 Veil of Summer
    1 Mindbreak Trap
    1 Run Afoul
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Toxicrene

    In this Natural Order build, I cut the Once Upon a Times to accommodate 4 Zeniths and 4 more green creatures that have a powerful etb effect and thus dont mind being sacced to Natural Order. I wanted 3 NO targets since you really want a good target for the NO to still be in your library once it resolves. Atraxa and Progenitus are auto includes but the third alternative is difficult to narrow down. 42/60 cards are creatures or lands so Torsten also draws you 4 cards, a budget Atraxa of sorts. However Archon of Valorís Reach and Ruric Thar are excellent versus combo decks and Titan of Industry has tons of utility in virtually any scenario.

    Toxicrene is a GSZ target that shuts down Lands and Marit Lage strategies. Absolutely deserves atleast a sideboard slot but might be good enough to warrant a maindeck slot since it also has reach and deathtouch.

    Malanthrope is a GSZ target that does the same thing Endurance does, but it also pitches to FoW and in the midgame, it often doubles as a very large beater that can go toe to toe with Murktide and clocks 2-3x as fast as Endurance. It can't be flashed in like Endurance so there is no reason to play multiple copies, but GSZing an Endurance also only occurs at sorcery speed, so Malanthrope is the perfect e 1 of GSZ target when you want a giant beat stick.

    Old One Eye is the perfect alternate NO target for the occasions when both NO targets (1x Atraxa and 1x Progenitus) are out of the library. Its 11 power trampler with recursion so it clocks just as fast as any NO target, but its almost just as easy to hardcast as Elder Gargaroth. There is no reason for a 3rd NO target if we add an Old One Eye to the list. It has now replaced Elder Gargaroth as the deck's hardcastable curve topper, though Atraxa is also hardcastable off of either Hieratch or Toxicrene.
    Last edited by Clark Kant; 02-19-2023 at 06:32 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    The hunter seems really meh.

    Wouldn't you rather go for Sarevok's Tome and go for fatties?
    This list looks like NO would also slot in there somewhere.

    Is Cankerbloom better than Liberator?

  3. #3

    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoid View Post
    The hunter seems really meh.

    Wouldn't you rather go for Sarevok's Tome and go for fatties?
    This list looks like NO would also slot in there somewhere.

    Is Cankerbloom better than Liberator?
    Solid suggestions.

    Hunter costs one more mana than it should have but still, the 5/4 trampler is better than tome especially when accounting for Once Upon a Time. 4 toughness means its out of bolt range and bigger than all the 3/3s and 3/4s in Delver and White Initiative decks.

    I cant imagine the proliferate in cankerbloom mattering. The 3 power IS a nice bonus but Liberator can deal with multiple artifacts and enchantments if it flips and Chalice and Trini can help it flip. It also flips if your Urzas Saga opponent is using their mana and land drops to make constructs, it can usually take out atleast two constructs in that situation or can force your opponent to play a spell thereby preventing the creation of one of the constructs and can take out the other.

  4. #4

    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoid View Post
    This list looks like NO would also slot in there somewhere.
    Natural Order has potential due to Atraxa Grand Unifier. But the deck would need a good density of cheap creatures it doesnt mind saccing, so far Dryad Arbor is the only such creature. Also a countered NO is a 2 for 1 loss for you so you need cards that help make sure NO doesnt get countered. So the deck would look very different than this. This list is just about playing powerful threats one after another until one sticks and wins you the game.

    I prefer Natural Order in a deck with discard and FoW to help it resolve such as Blue Nic Fit ala the list I posted in the Nic Fit threadÖ

    3 Cabal Therapy
    2 Thoughtseize
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Green Suns Zenith
    3 Natural Order
    1 Ponder
    1 Noble Hierach
    2 Veteran Explorer
    3 Ice Fang Coatl
    1 Grist
    1 Malanthrope
    1 Endurance
    1 Uro, Titan
    1 Undermountain Adventurer
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Collector Ouphe
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Questing Beast
    1 Old One Eye
    1 Atraxa, Grand Unifier
    1 Progenitus
    21 Lands

    SB: 1 Toxicrene

    Unlike every other Nic Fit list, this actually has game against combo due to its 6 discard effects and 4 FoW. Atraxa even pitches to FoW. Vet Explorer is awesome at ramping you so hardcasting Atraxa using Noble Hieratch for the white mana or using Zenith to cast it is perfectly doable.

    I added cheap creatures that have a powerful etb effects and thus dont mind being sacced to Natural Order. (So Knight of Autumn, Eternal Witness and Reclaimation Sage are preferred to Outland Liberator).

    I also wanted 2-3 NO targets since they pitch to FoW/Endurance and you really want a good target for the NO to still be in your library once it resolves. Atraxa and Progenitus are auto includes and decided on Old One Eye for the third NO target since its a two turn recurring clock that is easy to hardcast.

    Alternative potential NO targets includeÖ
    Old One Eye
    Titan of Industry
    Archon of Valorís Reach
    Ruric Thar
    Tyrranax Rex
    Torsten, Founder of Benalia
    38/60 cards are creatures or lands so Torsten also draws you 4 cards, a budget Atraxa of sorts. However Archon of Valorís Reach and Ruric Thar are excellent versus combo decks and Titan of Industry has tons of utility in virtually any scenario.
    Last edited by Clark Kant; 02-16-2023 at 07:18 AM.

  5. #5
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Hi, I've been playing a mono green stompy list for about a year and a half now and would recommend trying Garruk Wildspeaker. He is very good with the sol lands. One of the best plays the deck has is Garruk into Trinisphere.

    Hexdrinker is also easy to level up with the sol lands and can get around your own Chalice with either Allosaurus Shepherd or using Green Sun's.
    Quote Originally Posted by danpo View Post
    At minimum I'd say it outclasses Beetleback Chief.

  6. #6
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    You could go up to 3 or 4 Allosaurus Shepherd, since it has no anti-synergy with Chalice (Chalice does not counter it). It gives more early creatures and also helps ensure your 4 mana initiative guy isn't countered by FoW or Daze.

    Avenging Hunter seems too slow at 5 mana, getting raced by white decks (remember they have a lot of removal so being bigger than 3/3 isn't enough to catch up).
    Note you already have 4x Initiative at 4 mana (Adventurer) and 4x Initiative at 5 mana (GSZ into Adventurer) so adding more 5 mana Initiative isn't what the deck is missing. It would be nice to have more Initiative at 4 mana or 3 mana. How else could you get it at 4 mana?
    - Natural Order into Initiative creature
    - Sarevok's Tome (also helps cast Turntimber Symbiosis into big creature)
    - splash white for White Plume Adventurer or red for Caves of Chaos
    Any of those plans should help get Initiative faster (which is what Initiative decks really need)

    Endurance is very strong against many decks (even as a surprise 3/4 blocker vs Initiative). You could play more copies main.

  7. #7

    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    I love Natural Order and I am open to trying it (eventhough I feel its far stronger in the list I posted above that plays FoW, Thoughtseize and Cabal T to make sure it resolves and Brainstorm to shuffle back in NO targets).

    Here is how I am considering incorporating it into this deckÖ

    //Spells
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Natural Order
    1 Grist, the Hunger Tide

    //Creatures
    4 Undermountain Adventurer
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Allosaurus Shepherd
    1 Collector Ouphe
    1 Outland Liberator
    1 Elvish Visionary
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Llanowar Visionary
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Tireless Tracker
    1 Malanthrope
    1 Endurance
    1 Shifting Ceratops
    1 Questing Beast
    1 Elder Gargaroth
    1 Atraxa, Grand Unifier
    1 Progenitus
    1 Old One Eye

    //Mana
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    3 Boseiju, Who Endures
    3 Turntimber Symbiosis
    3 Snow-Covered Forest
    1 Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth

    //Sideboard
    3 Choke
    3 Force of Vigor
    2 Endurance
    2 Veil of Summer
    1 Run Afoul
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Mindbreak Trap
    1 Toxicrene

    I cut the Once Upon a Times to add 4 more creatures that have a powerful etb effect and thus dont mind being sacced to Natural Order. I wanted 3 NO targets since you really want a good target for the NO to still be in your library once it resolves. Atraxa and Progenitus are auto includes but the third alternative is difficult to narrow down. 42/60 cards are creatures or lands so Torsten also draws you 4 cards, a budget Atraxa of sorts. However Archon of Valorís Reach and Ruric Thar are excellent versus combo decks and Titan of Industry has tons of utility in virtually any scenario.
    Last edited by Clark Kant; 02-15-2023 at 11:32 PM.

  8. #8
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    If you're worried about resolving Natural Order, FoW and Thoughtseize protect it, but so does Allosaurus Shepherd in monogreen. Allosaurus makes NO uncounterable and also gives a creature to sacrifice.

    I think you can get away with 3 NO, and then only 2 NO targets (Progenitus/Archon, Atraxa). If for some reason both NO targets are out of library, you can always NO into Elder Gargaroth or Undermountain Adventurer. That should be better than running too many expensive cards you can't cast.

  9. #9

    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    I hadn't paid any attention to the Warhammer set and just saw on reddit that there are a couple of cards from that set that are must includes in GSZ decks, but arent out on MTGO yet so no one pays attention to them (the same way that Minsc&Boo and the Initiative creatures flew under the radar for months).

    Toxicrene
    Malanthrope
    Old One Eye

    Toxicrene is a GSZ target that shuts down Lands and Marit Lage strategies. Absolutely deserves atleast a sideboard slot but might be good enough to warrant a maindeck slot since it also has reach and deathtouch.

    Malanthrope is a GSZ target that does the same thing Endurance does, but it also pitches to FoW and in the midgame, it often doubles as a very large beater that can go toe to toe with Murktide and clocks 2-3x as fast as Endurance. It can't be flashed in like Endurance so there is no reason to play multiple copies, but GSZing an Endurance also only occurs at sorcery speed, so Malanthrope is the perfect e 1 of GSZ target when you want a giant beat stick.

    Old One Eye is the perfect alternate NO target for the occasions when both NO targets (1x Atraxa and 1x Progenitus) are out of the library. Its 11 power trampler with recursion so it clocks just as fast as any NO target, but its almost just as easy to hardcast as Elder Gargaroth. There is no reason for a 3rd NO target if we add an Old One Eye to the list. It could easily replace Elder Gargaroth slot as the deck's hardcastable curve topper.

    I will be updating my above lists to incorporate these three cards.

  10. #10

    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Proxied the cards up and Old One Eye is insane. 11 power trample damage is a lot.

    Also the fact that you can hardcast Atraxa using Toxicrene and Undermountain Adventurer is very relevant.

    Both are autoincludes imo.

    Should I still play a Progenitus since its an out vs Karakas. Toxicrene shuts off Karakas too.

    So either I should cut the 4th Natural Order and the Progentius and add Toxicrene and another blue card (Misdirection or Misstep or Ponder),

    Or if I keep Progenitus in, then I should still play 4 NOs since I would now be playing 3 excellent targets for NO.

    Lastly, its a damn shame that Arcane Proxy cant be pitched to Force. Because the card could be great in the deck, but I need to prioritize keeping the blue count up for FoW

  11. #11

    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    I have now switched over to the red splash like I alluded to in the OP for Minsc&Boo and Caves of Choas Adventurer. It turns out, the splash is completely justifiable, the red cards are quite powerful.


    //Disruption
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Blood Moon
    2 Trinisphere
    2 Once Upon A Time

    //Threats
    4 Fable of the Mirror Breaker
    4 Minsc & Boo
    4 Undermountain Adventurer
    4 Caves of Choas Adventurer
    4 Fury

    //Mana
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    3 Lotus Petal (Chrome Mox or more lands could also work)
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Wooded Foothills
    2 Snow-Covered Mountain
    2 Snow-Covered Forest
    1 Shatterskull Smashing
    1 Boseiju, Who Endures
    1 Taiga

    //Sideboard
    3 Choke
    3 Force of Vigor
    3 Endurance
    2 Dead/Gone
    1 Blood Moon
    Last edited by Clark Kant; 02-19-2023 at 05:46 PM.

  12. #12
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    The RG plan looks much stronger!

    Based on what works well in other Initiative decks, I think you need more creatures/removal to keep the Initiative. Bonecrusher Giant seems strong for that.

    31 mana sources also seems like too many. You could cut a few Spirit Guides and play a few Once Upon A Time, which helps find both mana and threats. Cutting Blood Moon should help your mana too (Blood Sun is an option).

  13. #13

    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Fair points.

    I went ahead and cut a mana source and a Trinisphere to try out 2 Once Upon a Time (updated list above) to get a better sense of how often Once Upon a Time fizzles in this list. Itís possible Once Upon a Time proves to be quite effective as it substantially increases the probability of being able to open with a Sol Land + ESG/SSG + Threat on turn one, Once Upon A Time is able to grab any of those three pieces that you need to make this play.

    I think overall Fable of the Mirror Breaker is a much stronger card than Bonecrusher Giant as it fills several different roles. However if Once Upon a Time proves very effective and becomes a staple 4 of, replacing some Fables for a creature like Giant makes sense.

  14. #14
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    OUAT should be strong exactly because it fixes everything you need on turn 1: Sol Land, Spirit Guide, Initiative creature. It should just increase consistency of big turn 1 plays! Then later in the game it helps dig past the mana to find more threats. It's so good that RW Initiative decks splash green just for OUAT ("Naya Initiative" is Tier 1).

    Overall Fable is a very strong card. However it's not a tool that would help keep the Initiative or steal it back (2/2 too small). It's a much slower and grindier card, while the Initiative plan is a lot about tempo and steamrolling the game. Initiative already provides the card advantage and digging that Fable normally would, as long as you have the tools to keep the Initiative. Definitely test both if you can. I just have a feeling Bonecrusher will prove useful.

    For reference Mono W Initiative runs 4 Solitude + 2 Walking Ballista + 2 Palace Jailer + 4 Swords to Plowshares + 4 Touch the Spirit Realm in the 75. That's a whole lot of removal, although sometimes 6 of them are in the SB. The game plan is to stick a fast Initiative creature and then stop opponent from ever attacking back, until you get through several rooms and just run away with the game. That plan really abuses T1 Initiative. Its best when many of the cards aren't dead when opponent has no creatures (Solitude, Ballista, Jailer, Touch). In red Fury is great. I suspect Bonecrusher would also shine because it fills that role - fast removal & threat that isn't dead vs creatureless decks. Needs testing.

  15. #15

    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Youre right. I was enamored by the idea of constantly making copies of your initiative creature with the mirror breaker to advances two spots in the dungeon every turn, but maybe that is win more.

    Bonecrusher is nice but it cant answer Murktide/Dark Depths like Solitude can. Wish there was a red or green creature that bounces creatures or kills flyers.

    Maybe Ill cut the 4 Fable for 2 more OuaT, 1-2 Bonecrusher and play Magus of the Moon instead of Blood Moon (or a 2/2 split of 2Magus and 2Blood Moon). Magus can be grabbed with OuaT decreasing the odds of OuaT failing to find a threat when your hand is already full of Mana), and Magus can prevent the UU for Murktide, hurts lands and is a lightning rod for your opponents creature removal letting your bigger threats survive.

  16. #16

    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Kant View Post
    Bonecrusher is nice but it cant answer Murktide/Dark Depths like Solitude can. Wish there was a red or green creature that bounces creatures or kills flyers.
    Poor Stingscourger is forgotten about.

  17. #17
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    There are expensive and unplayable options like Stingerfling Spider, Elvish Skysweeper, and Hammerheim Deadeye. Stingscourger may be the most efficient option.

    Vivien Reid is also a card with many useful modes, but it doesn't kill Marit Lage and is way too slow vs Murktide+Daze.

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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    The card you're missing for removal is Mawloc (much better than BCG!)

    GR Initiative already exists & has been featured heavily on 90smtg over the past month or so--start here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw8a...KQqf2&index=36

    This is not to say, don't brew, just build on the experience already out there.

    I've been playing around with GR since late last year & just ditched Birds of Paradise and Tinder Wall for GSZ & the full sets of Spirit Guides, which seems correct. Also been progressively cutting almost all the prison pieces: the deck just wants to slam big fat bangers & overwhelm the board rather than hide behind a Blood Moon or Chalice and chip in with Goblins. This is also why I'm still unsure about Fable. The card is obviously fantastic (but as has been pointed out in this thread) it's more grind than aggro.

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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Thanks for posting the video!

    So 8 Spirit Guides, 4 GSZ, cut Moon. Cut Chalice too? Chalice in the SB?

    Mawloc looks good. It still doesn't answer the creatures Clark mentioned, so maybe Stingscourger still has a role in the 75?

  20. #20
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    maybe Stingscourger still has a role in the 75?
    If you're not tutoring for Stingscourger or have another reason to want it for being a creature, it's probably better to just run Dead/Gone.
    Quote Originally Posted by danpo View Post
    At minimum I'd say it outclasses Beetleback Chief.

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