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Thread: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

  1. #21
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    The reason for it to be a creature is Initiative Stompy wants creatures, to either chump opponent's attacker or attack and take the Initiative. Stingscourger is not just Unsummon but also blocks. That means if you have the Initiative but a tapped creature (attacked) and opponent has 2 creatures, Stingscourger stops both from taking the Initiative (bounce one, block the other). Or you can choose to pay the Echo if you flood out and then you still have a blocker. That seems considerably better than Dead//Gone, which only holds off 1 creature and costs more mana to do so.

    That doesn't even include the creature synergies with OUAT, Fable, the final dungeon room, etc.

    Edit: Based on the feedback from 90sMTG, I am looking at this


    //Mana: 30
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Wooded Foothills
    2 Taiga
    1 Mountain
    1 Forest
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Shatterskull Smashing

    //Spells: 8
    4 Once Upon A Time
    4 Green Sun's Zenith

    //Threats: 22
    1 Collector Ouphe
    1 Reclamation Sage
    4 Undermountain Adventurer
    4 Caves of Chaos Adventurer
    4 Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes
    4 Mawloc
    4 Fury

    //Sideboard: 15
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Endurance
    2 Force of Vigor
    1 Meltdown
    1 Anarchy
    2 Stingscourger
    2 Trinisphere


    Without the prison pieces, it feels low on early plays. It probably needs more beatdown at 3 mana. Fable could work. Bonecrusher also fits that spot.
    Maybe regular old Tarmogoyf?
    Last edited by FTW; 02-25-2023 at 09:44 PM.

  2. #22

    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Stingscourger would be better if it had flash. But by todays standards, it really should cost 2R and not have echo.

    I would cut either OuaT or the GSZ package to play 4 Chalice and 2-3 Trini.

    Otherwise you are straight up conceding game 1 to every combo deck. Plus, game 1, ur delver has no answer to chalice/trini

    So overall, I like the rg list in the op more than that list from the rg discord. In fact, I think that if the op list replaced blood moon with magus of the moon and replaced the fable with either goyf or mawloc, the list is perfect.

    I imagine this is most optimal verison…

    Red Green Initiative Stompy

    //Disruption
    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Magus of the Moon
    2 Trinisphere

    //Threats
    4 Once Upon A Time
    4 Minsc & Boo
    4 Undermountain Adventurer
    4 Caves of Choas Adventurer
    4 Fury
    3 Mawloc

    //Mana
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    3 Chrome Mox
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Wooded Foothills
    2 Taiga
    2 Snow-Covered Forest
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    1 Shatterskull Smashing
    1 Boseiju, Who Endures

    //Sideboard
    3 Endurance
    2 Choke
    2 Cursed Mirror
    2 Force of Vigor
    1 Meltdown
    1 Anarchy
    1 Mawloc
    1 Vandalblast
    1 Run Afoul
    1 Dead/Gone

    Maybe moon isnt needed. Mawloc is better against delvers and against other initiative decks.

    Chalice and Trinisphere turn 1 either draw out a FoW 2 for 1ing your opponent and clear the path for your initiative creature, or outright win the game too often not to play.
    Last edited by Captain Hammer; 02-25-2023 at 11:33 AM.

  3. #23
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Yeah, you're probably right. When drafting the other list, the SB had to immediately start with 4 Chalice to not auto-lose to combo. Chalice is probably better main. It's only bad in Initiative/stompy mirrors. 3Sphere seems good too, since this deck has more ways to make turn 1 3sphere than most stompy shells.

    OUAT is amazing here. I agree GSZ should be the cut. I added it on recommendation from Tobitzki, but it's underwhelming. It takes 5 mana to get Initiative and doesn't have many great targets for less mana, unless you radically change the threat package. Too slow.

    I don't like Moon here since it can sabotage your fetch/Taiga when you need green mana. The manabase is a bit unreliable to get stable access to both colors (e.g. Mawloc), and powering out turn 1 Moon could just make that worse. Blood Moon is also risky vs Dark Depths decks with Boseiju/FoV (i.e. all of them), since they can use your own card to help them make EOT 20/20 and kill you. Magus of the Moon risks the same thing vs creature removal. Basically, Moon is not a stable plan to stop Depths anymore. Nowadays they can EOT remove it and it helps them combo off without wasting a Stage/land. So without Stingscourger and with only 1 Dead//Gone, what is your plan vs Marit Lage? Or Show & Tell fatties? Reanimator threats? Big Murktide? Run Afoul is a decent plan against all of them. Maybe more copies of that.

    Instead of Moon effects, another option is to play Blood Sun. An older version of RG stompy used to do that. Blood Sun hates on fetches, Saga, and Stage-Depths without hurting your own colored mana or enabling Marit Lages. All you have to do is change the manabase away from fetches. Instead of
    4 Wooded Foothills
    2 Taiga
    2 Forest
    1 Mountain

    Switch it up to
    3 Taiga
    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Mountain
    1 Forest

    Then you even have the option for Punishing Fire in the SB.

    I don't know if Choke is where you want to be against blue. All the prison pieces are already relevant against blue so they're not coming out. That means cutting threats, in a deck that already has 30 mana sources + 6-8 prison. Then you cut threats for more prison & make OUAT worse. The risk of losing to internal variance (flooding on non-threats) is high. Instead of Choke, your anti-blue slot could be a proactive uncounterable threat like Shifting Ceratops or Thrun, the Last Troll. Both dodge Force, Daze, blasts, Bolt, Decay, Ending. Ceratops blocks Murktide. Thrun dodges StP. Different advantages. Chandra, Awakened Inferno or Carnage Tyrant are also options vs slow blue, but 6 mana is a lot (unplayable vs blue tempo), while the 4-mana guys are probably relevant more often.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    Stingscourger would be better if it had flash. But by todays standards, it really should cost 2R and not have echo.
    There are several Man-o'-War variants that have been around for years. Unfortunately none in RG.

    The main counterargument here is that if you're playing Stingscourger in an aggressive tempo-oriented deck (Initiative plan falls into this), then you often get value without paying the Echo just by having a blocker up for 1 turn. Unfortunately it's bad against EOT Marit Lage or Sneak Attack-Emrakul, and much better in an Aether Vial deck.

  4. #24
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    couple of points:

    - GSZ is for T1 ramp (Dryad Arbor), for finding Mawloc as well as, post-board, Ouphe & such (Painter strong rn). Late-game Initiative creatures #9 - X. (stuff like Hexdrinker is just a cute cherry on top). So the flexibility is great, but I also wouldn't play the full playset (on 2 currently). And I agree: OuaT is more important here

    - I like the old Blood Sun stuff, but I'm afraid P Fire & TKS have been powercrept out of the format. One cool thing to do with the colorless mana from Grove or Karplusan Forest is Eldrazi Obliterator.

    - if you're so concerned with Marit Lage, just throw in a couple of Dead//Gone

    - Shifting Ceratops probably not great as long as Delver plays Snuff Out

    - Chalice is a controversial topic rn: white initiative players seem to be split on it. I personally would rather maindeck Bolts/Swords than Chalice in the current format, but obviously Chalice is a strong card that wins games on its own. As for folding to combo: I've had good success with 2-3 The Stone Brain in addition to Trinisphere and red blasts. For Reanimator and Breakfast I like 3 Faerie Macabre. You'll have to pick yr poison, though, and probably can't build a SB with tools for every combo deck.

    Here's my current build for reference. Jegantha is a budget consideration (not buying Fury & Endurance right now)--that aspect of the deck is not optimal, but I also haven't really missed Chalice & the pitch elementals, and every once in a while the Elk does come in handy.

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5264006#paper

  5. #25

    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Endurance and the 4th Mawloc are both better creatures than Magus of the Moon. And I think Lotus Petal is better than Chrome Mox since our whole thing is getting an explosive turn 1 every game. Otherwise the list looks perfect.

    Endurance is great against most combo decks. Mawloc is mostly useless against combo but is quite a bit better against creature decks and it also pitches to Fury. Both are great against the current top decks (Delver and Initiative). Endurance is better against Delver and Mawloc is better vs Initiative but both cards are far better than Magus against those matchups.

    Momo321 just 5-0ed with the below list…

    Artifact (11)
    3 Trinisphere
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lotus Petal

    Creature (23)
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    1 Progenitus
    3 Endurance
    4 Ignoble Hierarch
    4 Caves of Chaos Adventurer
    1 Allosaurus Shepherd
    1 Atraxa, Grand Unifier
    1 Tyrranax Rex

    Land (18)
    2 Dryad Arbor
    2 Taiga
    4 Wooded Foothills
    4 Ancient Tomb
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    1 Snow-Covered Forest
    4 Misty Rainforest
    Planeswalker (4)
    4 Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes
    Sorcery (4)
    4 Natural Order

    Sideboard (15)
    2 Defense Grid
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    4 Torpor Orb
    1 Faerie Macabre
    1 Abrade
    3 Allosaurus Shepherd

    34 mana sources (counting ignoble, lotus petal and the spirit guides) seems like a lot!

    MTGO doesn’t yet have Undermountain Adventurer or Mawloc and without Mawloc, the red count falls a bit too low for Fury. And with 12 fewer beaters OuaT becomes too unreliable as a way of reliably getting a win condition out on turn one. Momo’s list instead plays a Natural Order package with 3 tutor targets, Endurance and Ignoble Hierarch in those slots, and it plays Lotus Petal instead of Chrome Mox.

    What are people’s thoughts on Ignoble+NO? I think its worth playing only until MTGO gets Undermountain and Mawloc. On paper, NO lists should definitely play Old One Eye as the the backup third NO target instead of Tyrranax Rex since Old One Eye is almost as good and far easier to hardcast.

    Im also curious to hear people’s thoughts on Chrome Mox vs Lotus Petal. Is Petal better since our whole thing is getting an explosive turn 1 every game. Or is Chrome Mox better as a permanent source since we already play 8 one shot mana sources in the spirit guides.

  6. #26
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    I would think about something like this:

    // Deck: Jund Stompy (60)

    // Lands
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 Boseiju, Who Endures
    2 City of Traitors
    3 Forest
    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Mountain
    2 Taiga

    // Creatures
    4 Caves of Chaos Adventurer
    4 Undermountain Adventurer
    4 Endurance
    4 Mawloc
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide

    // Other
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Trinisphere
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes
    4 Once Upon a Time

    // Sideboard
    SB: 3 Choke/Blood Moon/Blood Sun/Magus...
    SB: 3 Collector Ouphe
    SB: 3 Fury
    SB: 3 Punishing Fire
    SB: 3 Thought-Knot Seer

    You get a bunch of fast Starts, get Initiative rolling and have some options vs Creatures and Combo as well.

    Sideboard is Made with OUAT in mind vs most Matchups - find what you need. TKS shouldnt be so bad and could easily replace Mawloc vs Combo etc. PF + Furry + Mawloc should keep most creature Decks in check too.
    Last edited by MD.Ghost; 03-07-2023 at 04:00 PM.
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  7. #27

    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    White Green Initiative Stompy (and RW Initiative Stompy) is now officially a thing thanks to White Plume’s ban. Curious what the final list will end up looking like…

    4 Once Upon A Time
    4 Undermountain Adventurer
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Seasoned Dungeoneer
    4 Archon of Emeria
    4 Touch the Spirit Realm
    4 Solitude
    3 Thalia
    3 Elite Spellbinder
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 City
    4 Tomb
    10 GW Lands

    is what I am picturing.

    Basically White Initiative Stompy but replace White Plume with Undermountain and playing 4 OuaT, 4 ESG and very few other green cards pre board.

  8. #28
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Kant View Post
    White Green Initiative Stompy (and RW Initiative Stompy) is now officially a thing thanks to White Plume’s ban. Curious what the final list will end up looking like…

    4 Once Upon A Time
    4 Undermountain Adventurer
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Seasoned Dungeoneer
    4 Archon of Emeria
    4 Touch the Spirit Realm
    4 Solitude
    3 Thalia
    3 Elite Spellbinder
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 City
    4 Tomb
    10 GW Lands

    is what I am picturing.

    Basically White Initiative Stompy but replace White Plume with Undermountain and playing 4 OuaT, 4 ESG and very few other green cards pre board.
    Dont get why you only want 3 Thalia - even DnT played the full set (and that in the days before Solitude or even Chrome Mox pitch option). Solitude itself gets weaker with OUAT and green/red Options like Spirit Guides or Initiative Cards, so a full set isnt as juicy here. I would also never play a White Version without Displacer here (but i get thats a personal choice, that gets better if you count less on chrome mox or solitude card effects)

    I think RG now is valid too, cause the biggest push for white was the Orc thanks to cc3 and the ability to slam it on the field as early as possible and with less mana sources compared to all the cc4 initiative cards.

    The RG shell comes with 8 spirit guides and much more aggressiv cards. You only suffer vs combo (white really shines here) cause you don't have hate cards printed as creatures besides Endurance (which isnt bad at main, cause its not only solid vs Delver, it also is active vs Graveyard Decks cause Reanimator gets some upwind now with Atraxa).
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  9. #29

    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by MD.Ghost View Post
    I would think about something like this:

    // Deck: Jund Stompy (60)

    // Lands
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 Boseiju, Who Endures
    2 City of Traitors
    3 Forest
    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Mountain
    2 Taiga

    // Creatures
    4 Caves of Chaos Adventurer
    4 Undermountain Adventurer
    4 Endurance
    4 Mawloc
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide

    // Other
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Trinisphere
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes

    // Sideboard
    SB: 3 Choke/Blood Moon/Blood Sun/Magus...
    SB: 3 Collector Ouphe
    SB: 3 Fury
    SB: 3 Punishing Fire
    SB: 3 Thought-Knot Seer

    You get a bunch of fast Starts, get Initiative rolling and have some options vs Creatures and Combo as well.

    Sideboard is Made with OUAT in mind vs most Matchups - find what you need. TKS shouldnt be so bad and could easily replace Mawloc vs Combo etc. PF + Furry + Mawloc should keep most creature Decks in check too.
    Thats very juicy. I love it. Its been ages since I played Grove + Punishing Fire so I have no idea if its any good (a lot more creatures seem to be /3s rather than x/2s) but theres still many x/2s and Fire can even take out x/4s so thats a non issue.

    Love the synergy between TKS and Grove. I had honestly forgotten that the Eldrazi exist.

    Now that Undermountain (and hopefully Mawloc, Toxicrene and Old One Eye) are making it to MTGO, do Ignoble and NO still have a role in the deck, or…

    Would Momo321s list be better served by more big creatures and ouat ala…

    Artifact (10)
    2 Trinisphere
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lotus Petal

    Creature (25)
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Caves of Chaos Adventurer
    4 Undermountain Adventurer
    4 Endurance
    3 Mawloc
    2 Fury

    Spell (4)
    4 Once Upon a time

    Planeswalker (4)
    4 Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes

    Land (17)
    3 Taiga
    4 Wooded Foothills
    4 Ancient Tomb
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    1 Snow-Covered Forest
    4 City of Traitors

    Are two basic lands enough, if not, the third should be an extra forest right?
    Does Fury belong in the list?
    Does Ignoble?
    Does Endurance?
    Does City of Traitors?
    Does Boseiju, Who Endures?
    Does Chrome Mox?

  10. #30
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by MD.Ghost View Post
    I would think about something like this:

    // Deck: Jund Stompy (60)

    // Lands
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 Boseiju, Who Endures
    2 City of Traitors
    3 Forest
    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Mountain
    2 Taiga

    // Creatures
    4 Caves of Chaos Adventurer
    4 Undermountain Adventurer
    4 Endurance
    4 Mawloc
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide

    // Other
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Trinisphere
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes

    // Sideboard
    SB: 3 Choke/Blood Moon/Blood Sun/Magus...
    SB: 3 Collector Ouphe
    SB: 3 Fury
    SB: 3 Punishing Fire
    SB: 3 Thought-Knot Seer

    You get a bunch of fast Starts, get Initiative rolling and have some options vs Creatures and Combo as well.

    Sideboard is Made with OUAT in mind vs most Matchups - find what you need. TKS shouldnt be so bad and could easily replace Mawloc vs Combo etc. PF + Furry + Mawloc should keep most creature Decks in check too.
    Where's the OUAT?

    Yeah, I like the old Blood Sun builds with Grove, Punishing Fire and TKS. Blood Sun has to be maindeck for that build to make sense. It punishes most decks and doesn't hurt this deck, and it cantrips, so there's little reason not to play 3-4 main. Maybe play 3ball in the board instead?

    Is TKS too slow to be maindeckable now? It does have a lot of new competition at 4 mana. It makes sense as tech vs spell-heavy decks where Mawloc is bad.

    I don't think you need both Punishing Fire and Fury. Fury should be enough. Save the PFire slots for another matchup.

  11. #31
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Where's the OUAT?

    Yeah, I like the old Blood Sun builds with Grove, Punishing Fire and TKS. Blood Sun has to be maindeck for that build to make sense. It punishes most decks and doesn't hurt this deck, and it cantrips, so there's little reason not to play 3-4 main. Maybe play 3ball in the board instead?

    Is TKS too slow to be maindeckable now? It does have a lot of new competition at 4 mana. It makes sense as tech vs spell-heavy decks where Mawloc is bad.

    I don't think you need both Punishing Fire and Fury. Fury should be enough. Save the PFire slots for another matchup.
    SORRY - 4x OUAT is in the deck, missed to write down one of the best cards ;) Full playset cause it nearly find everything and i builded the sideboard with OUAT in mind too - at least in most cases.

    Blood Sun - yeah, never really used it. Feel it can work here. I think it depends on the Meta, i mean it cant be found with OUAT so if you want it maindeck the only Slots are Trinisphere and Mincs Walker here. So it depends on the local meta. But yes it may has a wider impact vs random matchups than trinisphere.

    TKS could be in the Mincs Slot but overall you go down on GR in this case. So i think it deserves as a good additional Hate at Sideboard, unless you have a Meta that need to be tuned vs Combo G1.

    PFire will depend on the meta too, now without White Plume taking over the meta, we may see a little comeback from other fair creature decks, besides Elves (which is never a fair creature deck ;) ) having access to Fury and PFire should break all these Matchups easily. I mean vs DnT, Elves you cut a Playset of Endurance here, moving up with Trinisphere vs Creature Decks, means already 7 slots that could be changed without much trouble.

    With the build above you have 9 Slots vs Elves (Fury, PF, TKS) and could use 9 too vs DnT (Fury, PF and Oophe).

    Without Zenith or other real manipulation it comes down to OUAT to find the right sideboard spells, means for me 3 shouldnt be the least number to get out some randomness. Finding a one off solution in a non blue shell is more a joke in most decks too.
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  12. #32
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Ah OK good. OUAT is great!

    Quote Originally Posted by MD.Ghost View Post
    Blood Sun - yeah, never really used it. Feel it can work here. I think it depends on the Meta, i mean it cant be found with OUAT so if you want it maindeck the only Slots are Trinisphere and Mincs Walker here. So it depends on the local meta. But yes it may has a wider impact vs random matchups than trinisphere.
    My point was that the 4x Grove manabase is for RG builds with maindeck Blood Sun. It also helps Punishing Fire and TKS. If none of those cards are main and Blood Sun is a "maybe", then why play that mana instead of Taiga + fetches? That is a Blood Sun stompy manabase.

    If you play maindeck Blood Sun, the logical place for it is over 3sphere. The noncreature slots don't have much room. Replacing a creature seems bad. Playing Blood Sun instead of 3ball also makes boarding into Fury better.

    You could play Zenith as a 2-of and then have SB singletons like Collector Ouphe (equivalent to 3 copies). That frees up some SB space to run a wider package. Otherwise yeah, you need multiples for consistency. What about playing multiple Force of Vigor instead of multiple Collector Ouphe? Ouphe is stronger in specific scenarios, but Force works against a wider range of things.

  13. #33

    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Currently trying a 2/2 split between Chrome Mox and Lotus Petal to determine which I like more, but maybe the 2/2 split will end up proving the best. You never want multiple chrome mox in a game so it doesnt make sense to play 4 Chrome Mox. And playing 12 one shot mana sources might be too much, and only 18 permanent sources in a deck this mana hungry maybe too little, so a 10 one shot, 20 permanent sources configuration seems logical to try.

    Trying out 3 OuaT instead of 4 as that seems to be the number that most decks settled on. You never want to see two in your opening hand, and this also lets you play one more creature so there's less chance of the OuaT fizzling.

    I note the Punishing Fire list above is only playing 2 City of Traitors. I get the logic, you dont want to see multiple Citys in the same game, it hurts that playing the land you get when you take the initiative blows up the City, etc. But at the same time, this is a deck that absolutely wants to make 4 mana on turn one, and I dont think thats feasible without 7-8 sol lands.

  14. #34
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Ah OK good. OUAT is great!

    My point was that the 4x Grove manabase is for RG builds with maindeck Blood Sun. It also helps Punishing Fire and TKS. If none of those cards are main and Blood Sun is a "maybe", then why play that mana instead of Taiga + fetches? That is a Blood Sun stompy manabase.

    If you play maindeck Blood Sun, the logical place for it is over 3sphere. The noncreature slots don't have much room. Replacing a creature seems bad. Playing Blood Sun instead of 3ball also makes boarding into Fury better.

    You could play Zenith as a 2-of and then have SB singletons like Collector Ouphe (equivalent to 3 copies). That frees up some SB space to run a wider package. Otherwise yeah, you need multiples for consistency. What about playing multiple Force of Vigor instead of multiple Collector Ouphe? Ouphe is stronger in specific scenarios, but Force works against a wider range of things.
    Yeah for sure [card]Blood Sun[/cards] needs a test and could be good or even better than Trinisphere main. Now without White Plume, some Wasteland may have a comeback too - cause they couldnt really fight a potential turn 1 Creature that enters with a basic land.

    Have you ever thought about Raggadragga, Goreguts Boss here? Shouldnt it affect all 8 Spirit Guides (transform them into 4/4 beaters if needed) and Undermountain Adventurer (total of 12 cards). The later one could easily help get to that 7 Mana Mawloc cast on top of it.

    Another potential card could be Halana and Alena, Partners to push your own creatures. Compared to Minsc Walker both could be found with OUAT too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Kant View Post
    Currently trying a 2/2 split between Chrome Mox and Lotus Petal to determine which I like more, but maybe the 2/2 split will end up proving the best. You never want multiple chrome mox in a game so it doesnt make sense to play 4 Chrome Mox. And playing 12 one shot mana sources might be too much, and only 18 permanent sources in a deck this mana hungry maybe too little, so a 10 one shot, 20 permanent sources configuration seems logical to try.

    Trying out 3 OuaT instead of 4 as that seems to be the number that most decks settled on. You never want to see two in your opening hand, and this also lets you play one more creature so there's less chance of the OuaT fizzling.

    I note the Punishing Fire list above is only playing 2 City of Traitors. I get the logic, you dont want to see multiple Citys in the same game, it hurts that playing the land you get when you take the initiative blows up the City, etc. But at the same time, this is a deck that absolutely wants to make 4 mana on turn one, and I dont think thats feasible without 7-8 sol lands.
    QUAT depends - i dont see why more copies of that card is bad, you could easily end up in situations that grap you Creature/Land/Mana for your next turn too. The playset also means, you have it more often in your starting hand, which is exactly this decks want to get the right combination of Mana and/or Creature at start.

    I never liked more than 2 Cities in Stompy Shells (even Eldrazi ones) but thats maybe only my opionion. I feel the tradeoff with 2 instead of 4 is better in the long run.
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  15. #35
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by MD.Ghost View Post
    Have you ever thought about Raggadragga, Goreguts Boss here? Shouldnt it affect all 8 Spirit Guides (transform them into 4/4 beaters if needed) and Undermountain Adventurer (total of 12 cards). The later one could easily help get to that 7 Mana Mawloc cast on top of it.

    Another potential card could be Halana and Alena, Partners to push your own creatures. Compared to Minsc Walker both could be found with OUAT too.
    Those are interesting. Great with the right pieces, worse on an empty board.

    Imho Stompy needs strong standalone threats, because of the shell's low threat density and lack of card selection (high % mana sources + prison cards = lower random chance of topdecking threats). Minsc is a much better standalone threat, even if not a "creature" for OUAT. If you're topdecking, or if you mulligan and only have 1 threat in hand, or if opponent removed your other creature, Minsc is much better. It's the more powerful card overall.

    Unfortunately the deck's already crowded at 4 mana. Can't cut the Initiative creatures. Minsc is probably the best 2RG card in the format. Mawloc can be played at 2RG. More 2RG isn't what's missing. The curve could use something that comes down earlier or doesn't need both colors. 2R, 2G, 3, 2... costs like that. Prison cards at 2-3 mana will help curve into the 4 mana threats. Or disruptive creatures at lower mana. Bonecrusher Giant? Fury? Walking Ballista? Phyrexian Revoker?

  16. #36

    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Youre right that it needs more 2R or 2G creatures.

    Good options include Bonecrusher, Rabblemaster, possibly Tireless Tracker could work but its a bit slower than the gameplan here.

    Trouble is there is no room for these cards. The two weakest cards in the the current list are Mawloc and Endurance.

    Bonecrusher serves a similar role to Mawloc so you could swap some Mawloc for Bonecrusher and move a Mawloc to the board. This does hurt the green count for Endurance a tad.

    Fury is awesome. I actually like playing some Fury maindeck and pushing an Endurance to the board.

  17. #37
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    Trouble is there is no room for these cards. The two weakest cards in the the current list are Mawloc and Endurance.
    Mawloc is King in this shell, its not only removal, its quite easy to untap with Undermountain Adventurer into a possible 7/7 Mawloc + card draw.

    -------------

    Inspired by Natural Order you could easily try another "Green Stompy" Idea like

    // Deck: NO Stompy (60)

    // Lands 17
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 Boseiju, Who Endures
    2 City of Traitors
    2 Wooded Foothils
    2 Taiga
    2 Dryad Arbor
    2 Forest
    1 Mountain

    // Creatures 23
    4 Undermountain Adventurer
    4 Allosaurus Shepherd
    4 Chancellor of the Tangle
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    3 Mawloc
    1 Endurance
    1 Ignoble Hierarch
    1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
    1 Atraxa, Grand Unifier

    // Other 20
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Choke
    4 Natural Order
    2 Turntimber Symbiosis
    2 Green Sun's Zenith

    Combine some ugly Stompy Stuff together and have a lot of options at Sideboard too. Its overall Mono-Green with a super light red Splash for Mawloc and Ruric. With Chancellor (which is a backup NO Target if Atraxa or Ruric fail) you also have the option to gain 1 Mana at start and imprint it in Mox for another one. Allosaurus Shepherd is super nasty here if you combine it not only with Green based Creatures, cause the Maindeck comes with NO and Choke too. Turntimber Symbiosis could be a kind of backup NO plan, since you have 6 big creatures here.

    I think Progenitus isnt really needed G1 - you could switch to it later or play Tyrranax Rex in this spot as a Mono G option (Hardcast).
    TEAM MtG Berlin

  18. #38

    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by MD.Ghost View Post
    Inspired by Natural Order you could easily try another "Green Stompy" Idea like

    // Deck: NO Stompy (60)
    4 Allosaurus Shepherd
    4 Choke
    Wow, you really hate blue 😂 Youll end up with a lot of dead cards vs nonblue matchups.

    4 Shepards maindeck is excessive. Move 2-3 to the board, cards like Ouphe, Reclamation Sage and Eternal Witness make sense to include in any decks playing GSZ.

    With only 2 GSZ, 1 Dryad Arbor seems enough. It feels awful when you draw it and have to use it as your land drop.

    Choke is a sideboard card and even there, I would play 3 at most.

    I actually think Natural Order only makes sense in either Elves or in decks that splash Blue for Brainstorm and FoW. Brainstorm lets you shuffle Atraxa and Prog from your hand back into your deck.

    Old One Eye>>>Ruric Thar and is a must play in any NO shell.

    Its very hardcastable, excellent vs removal and is a fine back up option when Atraxa is stuck in your hand or yard. Ruric Thar is only amazing vs combo where as Old One Eye is universally good.

  19. #39
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    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    @Captain Hammer

    I played Sylvan Plug at the good old Times, so hating blue ist Always in the Check list. I mean - whats the current best Deck? Delver and Meta follow up with various other blue Decks. The best non blue Alternativ got the Axe (White Stompy) and will go down. Unless regional Variance, blue ist always a contender for tournaments thanks to Cantrips and Counters.

    Using Choke + Shephard means you win here. In a NO shell that is exposed to Counter Spells i think Shephard is auto include (you already go all in) and at least the dude could be eat from NO itself If really needed.

    With NO and GR Shell Ruric is one of the best cards vs Combo G1 - yeah Old One Eye is better vs fair Decks, but fair Decks arent an issue in legacy - a Stompy Shell already plays unfair and fail only itself or vs other unfair tactics or blue Counter Magic.

    But you are right - i favour the GR Jund Initiative Shell over the NO Plan
    TEAM MtG Berlin

  20. #40

    Re: [Deck] Green Initiative Stompy

    Two RG Initiative Stompy lists top 8ed the first challenge since Undermountain Adventurer’s printing. Both look near identical to the list in the OP and play 4 Fable, so I think Fable does make the cut….

    This is the 2nd place list….

    Artifact (9)
    1 Mox Diamond
    1 Chrome Mox
    3 Trinisphere
    4 Lotus Petal
    Creature (24)
    4 Magus of the Moon
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Fury
    4 Caves of Chaos Adventurer
    4 Undermountain Adventurer
    Enchantment (4)
    4 Fable of the Mirror-Breaker
    Instant (2)
    2 Once Upon a Time
    Land (20)
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Taiga
    2 Wooded Foothills
    2 Windswept Heath
    3 City of Traitors
    3 Arid Mesa
    1 Mountain
    1 Forest
    Planeswalker (1)
    1 Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes
    60 Cards
    Sideboard (15)
    3 Chalice of the Void
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    2 Faerie Macabre
    2 Collector Ouphe
    2 Force of Vigor
    2 Endurance
    2 Allosaurus Shepherd

    This is the 9th place list…

    Artifact (14)
    3 Chrome Mox
    3 Trinisphere
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lotus Petal
    Creature (20)
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Fury
    4 Caves of Chaos Adventurer
    4 Undermountain Adventurer
    Enchantment (4)
    4 Fable of the Mirror-Breaker
    Instant (3)
    3 Once Upon a Time
    Land (15)
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Taiga
    2 Mountain
    1 Forest
    Planeswalker (4)
    4 Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes
    60 Cards

    Sideboard (15)
    3 Carpet of Flowers
    1 Trinisphere
    3 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Gaea's Blessing
    1 Collector Ouphe
    1 Run Afoul
    4 Endurance
    1 Force of Vigor

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